Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 01:19:21 GMT, JimC wrote:



Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
. octanews.com...

Spare us.




Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Neal (Wilbur), what boat are you sailing these days? Or are you sailing
at all? Pictures?

Jim

My dear Sir. The famed Wilbur is not so crass as to post the details
of his earth shaking cruising exploits for all and sundry to peruse.

My goodness, one does not discuss one's own exploits, no matter how
exemplary they may be. The chaps would view that in much the same
light as an individual so declasse' as to pass the Port to the right.

No, the famed cruising expert and Internet habitue restricts the
details of his celebrated voyaging which are solely for his own
edification and certainly not for the commonality to salivate over.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:


My dear Sir. The famed Wilbur is not so crass as to post the details
of his earth shaking cruising exploits for all and sundry to peruse.

My goodness, one does not discuss one's own exploits, no matter how
exemplary they may be. The chaps would view that in much the same
light as an individual so declasse' as to pass the Port to the right.

No, the famed cruising expert and Internet habitue restricts the
details of his celebrated voyaging which are solely for his own
edification and certainly not for the commonality to salivate over.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


Now THAT is class...

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Apr 9, 9:19 pm, JimC wrote:
Wilbur Hubbard wrote:
"Tom Dacon" wrote in message
news:kZmdnW8-pbtstmHanZ2dnUVZ_jadnZ2d@isomediainc...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
ctanews.com...

Spare us.

Jeez what a closed minded nitwit you are, Tom! One must wonder why you
bother reading discussion groups.

So, instead of whining, next time spare yourself yourself. It's not my job
to do it. And, what's with the "us." How dare you presume to speak for
everybody else?

Now, bugger off ******!

Wilbur Hubbard

Neal (Wilbur), what boat are you sailing these days? Or are you sailing
at all? Pictures?

Jim



Of course he's not sailing. He's so pathetic that he takes photos of
other boats and claims they're his. He's a sad sockpuppet who hides
because he must. He doesn't sail at all. If he did he'd post a pic or
two and troll with that.



The Better Captain
35s5
NY

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:17:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:

"cavelamb himself" wrote

Now THAT is class...


Gee, three of my cruising exploits are being published as articles in
"Points East" http://www.pointseast.com this year.

That must make me a world class porker among the Port drinkers of the
world:)


Assuming that "pointeast" is a Maine publication one does not worry
about passing the Port to the left (Port). One worries about grabbing
the beer before Lew Boudearu gets it.

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 06:17:54 -0400, "Roger Long"
wrote:


"cavelamb himself" wrote

Now THAT is class...


Gee, three of my cruising exploits are being published as articles in
"Points East" http://www.pointseast.com this year.

That must make me a world class porker among the Port drinkers of the
world:)



Assuming that "pointeast" is a Maine publication one does not worry
about passing the Port to the left (Port). One worries about grabbing
the beer before Lew Boudearu gets it.

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)


I "kinda" did that once in the Gulf - shrimpin'
3 Good ol' boys in a 14 foot jon boat with a case of beer.

We had quite a haul for the Jumbo that weekend.
And all God's cute little slimy creatures in the bottom of the boat.

Closest I've ever come to being green gilled sea sick!

Richard
--
(remove the X to email)

Now just why the HELL do I have to press 1 for English?
John Wayne

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:

And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)

Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty


Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

"PrefersOffshore" wrote in message
...
My post of January 20, 2008, copy of which follows, received no reply
from Joe. The questions asked are what I consider to be some of the
basics of sailing offshore. Thankfully Joe and crew are still around,
and I am in hopes they'll be able to venture out again sometime.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe

I saw the video of the rescue a few weeks ago. My condolences on your
loss. Glad the 3 of you are all still with us.

A couple questions and comments. Did you not have storm tri and storm
jib? If so, did you not use them. Why?

Probably not!

Were either or both of your crew capable of proper helmsmanship for
you to safely tend to the sail plan on deck? Were jacklines strung
fore 'n aft?

I would guess the answer to that would be affirmative on the helm but no on
the jacklines.


Why keep the windage aloft with the large ensign? Was the mizzen
reefed?

Ignorance or a stuck halyard? And no, not prior to the rescue at least. One
can consult the videos. It looks like it was reefed and the mainsail removed
when the vessel was abandoned. Why not get the sails right prior to
abandoning the vessel?


40 ft seas are remarkably heavy - as are 30 foot seas, for that
matter. About 500 nm N of Puerto Rico with a strong depression laying
to our north, we experienced 20 to 25 foot and 8 to 10 groundswell for
3 days with 50 KTS sustained on the nose. We found ourselves in a
pretty deep hole at times - enough to starve the sails. I suppose
they could have been called 35, but it's no where near the same.
Estimating the size is difficult when you're in it. Whenever they're
over 15 to 18, I study them pretty long and hard to come up with a
true and proper observation of wave height.

You can see from the videos of the rescue that the seas were lucky if they
were 20 feet tall. Most were more like fifteen but they WERE short and
steep. Check out the video he
http://www.khou.com/news/local/galve...e.6a6a4f6.html
And note how in the text of the report it says after the rescue the
helicopter landed and refueled on a nearby oil platform. (That would be the
Noble Clyde Boudreaux which is the only one in that area.) It also said that
the helicopter stayed there for an hour until the wind died. Hmmmmm!

It's easy to fall into the macho thing when you're back ashore. But,
more importantly, when you're in the thick of it, if your judgment is
poor in knowing how ill you really lay, you may make some critical and
irreversible mistakes by overreacting. Of course - pilot in command,
and my not being there fully understood - there would have been a
somewhat lengthy period before drogue deployment that I'd have been
hove to or making way under storm jib and tri, running with warps, and
if sea room or speed made our situation truly desperate, then the
drogue with storm tri.

I advised the captain many times on the newsgroups that running before it
was the best option given the inadequacies of a big square pilot house and
large flat windows. There was about a week of searoom to do so. He didn't
bother listening. He came up with some lame excuse that the whole area to
his lee was dotted with oil rigs. A lie. The Noble Clyde Boudreaux was the
ONLY oil rig that far offshore. Given the NW wind slowly veering to the
North there was nothing in his lee but unobstructed deep water. Cold fronts
in the Gulf are imminently predicatable. The wind begins to blow from the
west and strengthens. Then it quickly veers to the NW and rapidly increases
withing the space of minutes with the passing of the frontal boundary
usually accompanied by a line of threatening black clouds and some rain
squals. Then it blows hard for maybe 12-18 hours with clearing skys and
dropping temperatures.while slowly veering to the North and then NE while
diminishing in intensity. During the worst of it one should heave-to if one
has a suitable yacht or run before it to effective lengthen the wavelength
so as not to take a pounding by trying to take them head on as was the case
in the video. It's as if they didn't even know the basics of storm sailing.
As if they never even read a book about it let alone had any experience at
it. Something is very fishy about the entire episode.

Personally, I would not find myself offshore without a proper sail
inventory. It's important and fitting that you had the raft, but in
the progression of going from fair weather to foul, which often comes
all too quickly, storm sails are every bit as important for the safety
of ship and crew.

You are so correct.

OTOH, you now have experience assisting your crew into the Coast Guard
basket. Three point shot from 300 miles out! Few sailors could make
that claim.

Dubious!



Wilbur Hubbard

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)
Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty


Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.

Had friends on Grand Manan Island when I was young. "Honest Officer,
those little fellers was killed by the big lads in the pots, once we had
em in the boat it seemed like it'd just be polluting to throw them back..."

No deer there, but the island I currently live on has plenty, and a
number of people with apparently impaired night vision; why else would
they have those giant lights on the cab roof?

Cheers
Marty

Lessons to be learned from the wreck of the 'RED CLOUD'
 

On Apr 11, 9:34�am, Martin Baxter wrote:
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 10:13:14 -0400, Martin Baxter
wrote:

Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
And, short lobsters are all right if you dig the hole yourself and go
out to the island on an actual lobster boat with a tub of bait in the
cockpit :-)
Shorts and scrambled eggs, breakfast of Champions!

Cheers
Marty

Goodness, and here I thought that all RBC folks were law abiding good
guys. I mention "short lobsters" and it seems like everybody knows
what I'm talking about. Next thing I'm going to mention "jack
lighting" to see if there are any deer hunters in the crowd.

Had friends on Grand Manan Island when I was young. "Honest Officer,
those little fellers was killed by the big lads in the pots, once we had
em in the boat it seemed like it'd just be polluting to throw them back..."

No deer there, but the island I currently live on has plenty, and a
number of people with apparently impaired night vision; why else would
they have those giant lights on the cab roof?

Cheers
Marty- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -



Knew this was a lie when I read "Had friends..."



The Good Captain
35s5
NY