It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

"Richard" wrote in message
ups.com...
It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?



Not sure what you're asking. This size boat can be quite stable and
enjoyable in up to about 25 kts wind, assuming you reef as appropriate. I
sailed a Catalina 27 for years on the SF bay in condition such as this with
no problem. If you're unfamiliar with sailing in these conditions, take some
lessons. Where are you sailing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Richard wrote:
It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

It depends entirely on how much you like to tack! If you're racing you
would want to take advantage of every real shift, perhaps tacking every
few minutes. If you're daysailing with "no particular place to go" what
does it matter? A properly executed tack has very little loss; if you
have to explain which way to wrap the winch it might not be worth it.

I often sailed my Nonsuch 30 like it was a dinghy, tacking on every
shift, and often beating faster boats upwind because it was easy to sail
efficiently. I tack my catamaran much less frequently, and generally
power rather than tack out of a harbor.

FWIW, if you're going a distance upwind and you're always on the wrong
side of 5 degree headers, you could end up sailing 15% further. If,
however, you just ignore the 5 degree shifts, you'll perhaps be giving
up about 7-8%, or about 5 minutes on every hour.

Or, you could just adopt the motto "Gentlemen don't sail to windward."

On 17 Oct '07, Richard wrote:
What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

Good question. Unfortunately, I can't imagine that there would be any
hard and fast rule. It all depends on the situation so experience and
judgement would matter. For simple example, a boat on the far right
side of the course on port tack, might tack on a 1 degree header. Same
boat on the far left side of the course probably wouldn't.
Anyhow, I'll be interested to see if anybody comes up with a one size
fits all rule.

Rick

jeff wrote:


Or, you could just adopt the motto "Gentlemen don't sail to windward."

Oh you don't want to do that, you'll wind in the same place as Jax.


Cheers
Marty

Richard,

Don't be a "Tail Wagger" Every time you use the rudder its the same as
stepping on the brake in your car. If a header is worth changing course
for, do it by sail trim. That's why you have a crew.

On Oct 18, 1:33 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message

ups.com...

It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

Not sure what you're asking. This size boat can be quite stable and
enjoyable in up to about 25 kts wind, assuming you reef as appropriate. I
sailed a Catalina 27 for years on the SF bay in condition such as this with
no problem. If you're unfamiliar with sailing in these conditions, take some
lessons. Where are you sailing?

--
"j" ganz

I'm asking the question that Jeff answered. (oversimplified example
Dingy sailors tack on every header. At some point, in larger boats, is
there a point of diminishing returns, where it would NOT be best to
tack on every header??

I joined the Navy Yacht Club in San Diego, CA. They have Catalina 27's
and 250's. I just qualified, in the 27's/250's, so will be sailing
both until next spring to see the differences, and get experience.

On Oct 18, 7:08 am, jeff wrote:
Richard wrote:
It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

It depends entirely on how much you like to tack! If you're racing you
would want to take advantage of every real shift, perhaps tacking every
few minutes. If you're daysailing with "no particular place to go" what
does it matter? A properly executed tack has very little loss; if you
have to explain which way to wrap the winch it might not be worth it.

I often sailed my Nonsuch 30 like it was a dinghy, tacking on every
shift, and often beating faster boats upwind because it was easy to sail
efficiently. I tack my catamaran much less frequently, and generally
power rather than tack out of a harbor.

FWIW, if you're going a distance upwind and you're always on the wrong
side of 5 degree headers, you could end up sailing 15% further. If,
however, you just ignore the 5 degree shifts, you'll perhaps be giving
up about 7-8%, or about 5 minutes on every hour.

Or, you could just adopt the motto "Gentlemen don't sail to windward."

Thanks. That was helpful.

The 12 different courses used by the club are mostly triangles, (using
different channel buoys to make shorter/longer courses) and the total
distances range from about 3 miles to about 5 miles, so the beats and
runs are about .5-.75 miles and the reaches maybe 1-2 miles. So I
guess I'd call these short courses. But that certainly seems long
enough to me to prove that a an equal boat taking advantage of wind
shifts will beat one that doesn't.

What I did notice in the last race series is that all of the 20-30
footers seemed to try and hold tacking to a minimum, and that seemed
like a possibility to exploit wind shifts if I can learn how to feel
and use them correctly.

"Richard" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Oct 18, 1:33 am, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Richard" wrote in message

ups.com...

It looks like I'll be sailing in Catalina 27's and 250's for the next
year.

I've been reading a lot about:
Tiny boat: Take every wind shift.
Huge boat: Not always! With the time/distance lost in turning a large
boat this may not be best.

So what would be the general rule for 25-27 footers?

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

Not sure what you're asking. This size boat can be quite stable and
enjoyable in up to about 25 kts wind, assuming you reef as appropriate. I
sailed a Catalina 27 for years on the SF bay in condition such as this
with
no problem. If you're unfamiliar with sailing in these conditions, take
some
lessons. Where are you sailing?

--
"j" ganz

I'm asking the question that Jeff answered. (oversimplified example
Dingy sailors tack on every header. At some point, in larger boats, is
there a point of diminishing returns, where it would NOT be best to
tack on every header??

I joined the Navy Yacht Club in San Diego, CA. They have Catalina 27's
and 250's. I just qualified, in the 27's/250's, so will be sailing
both until next spring to see the differences, and get experience.



Ah... Jeff's smarter than I am. :-)


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

What rules/guidelines do I use to learn properly the best way or
frequency or wind shift arc to tack?

How big is the wind shift? How long is it going to stay shifted?
Another factor to consider is the speed of the boat. Very fast boats
like catamarans or iceboats will benefit much less from tacking in
phase with minor wind shifts than slow boats. Since you're talking
about 25~27' keelboats, you will certainly want to be attentive to
windshifts and tack on many of them.

jeff wrote:
It depends entirely on how much you like to tack!

Actually that is a very good answer... supposing that when one "likes"
tacking that one gets good at it, and minimizes loss of progress.
However you should also keep Ol' Thom's words in mind... the rudder is
a brake!

..... If you're racing you
would want to take advantage of every real shift, perhaps tacking every
few minutes. ..... A properly executed tack has very little loss; if you
have to explain which way to wrap the winch it might not be worth it.


ah the benefits of regular crew!

I often sailed my Nonsuch 30 like it was a dinghy, tacking on every
shift, and often beating faster boats upwind because it was easy to sail
efficiently. I tack my catamaran much less frequently, and generally
power rather than tack out of a harbor.

FWIW, if you're going a distance upwind and you're always on the wrong
side of 5 degree headers, you could end up sailing 15% further. If,
however, you just ignore the 5 degree shifts, you'll perhaps be giving
up about 7-8%, or about 5 minutes on every hour.

Or, you could just adopt the motto "Gentlemen don't sail to windward."

Richard wrote:
Thanks. That was helpful.

The 12 different courses used by the club are mostly triangles, (using
different channel buoys to make shorter/longer courses) and the total
distances range from about 3 miles to about 5 miles, so the beats and
runs are about .5-.75 miles and the reaches maybe 1-2 miles. So I
guess I'd call these short courses. But that certainly seems long
enough to me to prove that a an equal boat taking advantage of wind
shifts will beat one that doesn't.


True enough, but remember that all else is NEVER equal! The wind
varies in velocity as well as direction, and boat that does not tack
well and/or tacks her way into a series of lulls will lose far more
ground than she gains.

On a short course, the distance gained by tacking on minor shifts is
miniscule because you'll have to tack again soon anyway. A bigger
factor is clear air & "pressure" or velocity of the wind.... remember
it's a RACE so sail fast, and the best way to do this is to have
stronger wind than the other guys.

Another example of how to be fooled into thinking you're winning by
tacking on headers- if the boat is moving forward at speed thru the
water X, and there is a lull, then the apparent wind shifts forward
and the helmsman thinks he is sailing into a persistent header. So he
tacks, only to find that he is NOT lifted on the opposite tack and
cannot regain speed lost in the tack because of lull. Always beware of
these "velocity headers," also remember Ol' Thom's advice and be
gentle with the helm when bearing away on lulls & small headers.


What I did notice in the last race series is that all of the 20-30
footers seemed to try and hold tacking to a minimum, and that seemed
like a possibility to exploit wind shifts if I can learn how to feel
and use them correctly.

Yep. Relatively few sailors keep their boats "in phase" with the wind
shifts for a variety of reasons... but it's also true that it can be a
test of skill to capitalize on this. It is not a simple sport!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King