Again thank you all for your support over the years here..most of
all
thank you Ol Thom for your rigging, sailing trim tips, and advice.





Joe, that's awesome!!!

Congrats and please log your trips via video and pictures! I'm sure
some folks here would love to see how it goes.

Fair winds to you,


Robert B
35s5
NY

I'm not jesting and stop calling me Shirley.

On Sep 20, 9:07 pm, "Lloyd Bonafide" wrote:
Container ships are the most efficient way to haul cargo (per pound) on the
planet.That's just based on fuel cost.

What if there is no fuel cost beyond generator and channel transiting
and docking?

A 311,883 tonne "Super Tanker" @ 15.69 knots would burn 190 tonnes of
fuel per day. (figures for the ex-Shell tanker "Lanistes")

A 71,425 ton tanker @ 16.75 knots would burn 118 tons of fuel per day.
(figures for the ex-Shell tanker "Serenia")

A 18,911 ton product carrier @ 14.25 knots would burn 49 tons per day.
(figures for the ex-Shell tanker "Hemitrochus")




Throw in the time factor -

For green coffee you can take your time...there is no rush. For
roasted with degassing tech, you have a few months without problems.

Might even get the most expensive coffee on earth (beside that coffee
the critters crap) if I could recreate the moonsooned process.

Mr Ukers says in the sailing ship delivery days cargo holds would
induce a natural sweating affect on the coffee. As a result, the
coffee will turn a rare shade of brown that brings a premium. It is
believed that this browning greatly improves the flavor and body of
coffee. In the old days Captains that brought in "extra brown" were
given a bonus. Coffee brought by sail was termed "ex-sailing ships."
After the turn of the century, there were attempts to duplicate the
browning process by steam heating coffee brought in by steamships but
it was never the same.


scheduling, spoilage etc and the container ship is #1 by far. Containerships
don't burn that much fuel.

see fuel amounts above.

I admit a container ship will be more efficent than a tanker but
still will burn 30,000 +gallons a day IIRC. I have nothing against big
ships, I just feel with certain types of cargo speed and schedules are
not critical, and if we can reduce the amount of fuel used for trade,
we will be reducing the major use of fuel on earth. Every journey
starts with a single step.


A rotorship is a much more efficient use of wind power for ships. No sails
needed, small number of crew necessary.

http://www.efluids.com/efluids/galle...ettner_rotorsh...

Maybe you can convert RedCloud to a rotor.

Captain Cousteau's son had a rotor ship IIRC. Captain Cousteau became
famous when he did a documentry near Ambergris Caye diving the Blue
Hole.

Joe

On Sep 20, 11:28 pm, "Capt. Rob" wrote:
Again thank you all for your support over the years here..most of
all
thank you Ol Thom for your rigging, sailing trim tips, and advice.



Joe, that's awesome!!!

Congrats and please log your trips via video and pictures! I'm sure
some folks here would love to see how it goes.

Fair winds to you,

Robert B
35s5
NY

What would be a good (cheap) digital recorder for video's?
I do not need much memory as I could download the camera daily to a
hard drive.

I have a couple nice Cannon's and will stick to 35MM film.

Thanks for the fair winds wish.

Joe

Joe wrote:
....
Throw in the time factor -

For green coffee you can take your time...there is no rush. For
roasted with degassing tech, you have a few months without problems.

No you don't. Even assuming a 90 shelf life, you can't really spend 60
days traveling. Are your really going to put this on EBay as "only 60
days used on its 90 day shelf life"? And how long will it take to sell
on EBay? How long will it take for people to sample some and then
decide on a larger quantity? And will you donate to the homeless
shelter whatever doesn't sell quickly?

Perhaps this was the best you've had when it was two days from the
roaster. It certainly won't be 3 months later!


Might even get the most expensive coffee on earth (beside that coffee
the critters crap) if I could recreate the moonsooned process.

Mr Ukers says in the sailing ship delivery days cargo holds would
induce a natural sweating affect on the coffee. As a result, the
coffee will turn a rare shade of brown that brings a premium. It is
believed that this browning greatly improves the flavor and body of
coffee. In the old days Captains that brought in "extra brown" were
given a bonus. Coffee brought by sail was termed "ex-sailing ships."
After the turn of the century, there were attempts to duplicate the
browning process by steam heating coffee brought in by steamships but
it was never the same.

It is not clear this made better coffee for today's pallet. It was the
perception that this was better that raised the price. In addition, it
was actually only used then for the low quality Robusta beans, not the
high quality Arabica that make up the vast majority of today's specialty
market.

Today's Monsooned coffee is prepared with a great deal of time and care.
Here's a description from one of my favorite suppliers (check the last
offering on the page):

http://www.sweetmarias.com/coffee.asia.india.html

BTW, the price on both the Indian and Java Monsooned coffee is not
particularly high, and very little gets imported to the US.

First I want to say good luck on your venture. It sounds like a very
interesting prospect and I really hope it works out.

I was wondering if you had looked into some of the new kite technology
out there. I was looking into this for an additional sail on a boat I
am building and I came across several sites that make huge kite sails
for cargo ships. They market to the container ships but if RedCloud
is big enough and could benefit it seems like it may help your venture
out. Shaving a few days off of shipping time could be very profitable
for you from what I understand.

I thought I would ask and see if you had any insight into this
technology since I am considering using it myself but haven't met
anyone that has done it yet. From what I have read it seems to be
useful.

Good luck,
Bill

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Greetings fellow Sailors,

Since many of you have helped me over the years learn mucho about
sailing, I figured it's proper for me to announce to the world here
first.. about the new ElLago Coffee Co.

The Sailing Vessel RedCloud has been converted to carry cargo. She
will be departing Houston mid to late November to pick up her first
load of coffee cargo in Ambergris Caye Belize. With a return in time
to sell all the cargo on e-bay just before Christmas. The ELLago
Coffee Import Company will be importing coffee (10,000 LBS per trip)
in an eco-friendly sustainable way to the USA aboard the sailing
vessel RedCloud. This will be, according to William Ukers all about
coffee, the first time since the Braque Padang arrived in NYC
Christmas day 1914 that coffee has been imported to the USA via
sailing vessel. It's the dawn of the new age of sail.


It's the dawn of stupidity, I'm afraid. Consider the following:

So you're selling it on E-Bay? And it's really great coffee. . .

Then ask yourself what's the use of shipping it up to Houston when you
could sit on your boat in Ambergris and Fed Ex it from Ambergris at not
much more cost than from Houston? Doh! Your customers will pay the
freight anyway and I doubt they balk at a little more for shipping.
Besides, you can probably avoid the state sales tax issue altogether and
this would offset the extra shipping.

Check out the Fed Ex or UPS rates and you'll see the folly of your
venture. They can ship it cheaper than you can. I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Sep 21, 4:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
It's the dawn of the new age of sail.

It's the dawn of stupidity, I'm afraid. Consider the following:

So you're selling it on E-Bay? And it's really great coffee. . .

E-bay and at ellagocoffee.com. What's wrong with a public auction?
How better to reach the masses? Will sell of craigslist as well.

Then ask yourself what's the use of shipping it up to Houston when you
could sit on your boat in Ambergris and Fed Ex it from Ambergris at not
much more cost than from Houston?

Sorry, check out the shipping rates from Belize..10lbs 99 dollars..1
lb 10 dollars and that is from the mainland. Regardless it's is the
manner in which it is shipped Wilbur. Commerce and trade use more fuel
than mfg. If we can reduce the fuel use in trade we can reduce one of
the worlds major sources of oil consumption. Would you rather pay a
large oil burning freighter the major portion of that 9 bucks a
pound.. or a sailor who can get it to market faster?

Doh! Your customers will pay the
freight anyway and I doubt they balk at a little more for shipping.

I can not cure the whole worlds dependence on oil, but I can take a
step towards reducing the dependence in one step in the process. I
hope my model of eco-friendly sustainable transport catches on that
any sailor in the future will have a pollution free sky to see the
star, to which he can helm a great sailing ship towards.

Besides, you can probably avoid the state sales tax issue
altogether and
this would offset the extra shipping.

We will sell it local and ship it.

Check out the Fed Ex or UPS rates and you'll see the folly of your
venture. They can ship it cheaper than you can. I hope this helps.

How do you know what it's going to cost me to ship it on RedCloud?
What if it cost more? Are you not willing to spend an extra dime to
help a fellow sailor and the planet? You may not be Wilbur, but I'm
betting that many will be.

Joe



Wilbur Hubbard- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Sep 21, 4:14 pm, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:
It's the dawn of the new age of sail.

It's the dawn of stupidity, I'm afraid. Consider the following:

So you're selling it on E-Bay? And it's really great coffee. . .

E-bay and at ellagocoffee.com. What's wrong with a public auction?
How better to reach the masses? Will sell of craigslist as well.

Then ask yourself what's the use of shipping it up to Houston when
you
could sit on your boat in Ambergris and Fed Ex it from Ambergris at
not
much more cost than from Houston?

Sorry, check out the shipping rates from Belize..10lbs 99 dollars..1
lb 10 dollars and that is from the mainland. Regardless it's is the
manner in which it is shipped Wilbur. Commerce and trade use more fuel
than mfg. If we can reduce the fuel use in trade we can reduce one of
the worlds major sources of oil consumption. Would you rather pay a
large oil burning freighter the major portion of that 9 bucks a
pound.. or a sailor who can get it to market faster?

Doh! Your customers will pay the
freight anyway and I doubt they balk at a little more for shipping.

I can not cure the whole worlds dependence on oil, but I can take a
step towards reducing the dependence in one step in the process. I
hope my model of eco-friendly sustainable transport catches on that
any sailor in the future will have a pollution free sky to see the
star, to which he can helm a great sailing ship towards.

Besides, you can probably avoid the state sales tax issue
altogether and
this would offset the extra shipping.

We will sell it local and ship it.

Check out the Fed Ex or UPS rates and you'll see the folly of your
venture. They can ship it cheaper than you can. I hope this helps.

How do you know what it's going to cost me to ship it on RedCloud?
What if it cost more? Are you not willing to spend an extra dime to
help a fellow sailor and the planet? You may not be Wilbur, but I'm
betting that many will be.

Joe


Shipping it on Red Cloud will end up being more expensive than you think
provided you pay the crew a fair wage (on the books) even if the wage
isn't really collected. And you and I both know you can't count on
anything but headwinds on the return trip that time of year. You'll end
up burning lots of diesel. But, it's possible you might beat the
prevailing winds and get a sailing window. Have you researched the pilot
charts for that time of year?

Well, there IS such a thing as a niche market and coffee seems to be a
good way to go as there are lots of greenies sipping with a pinky stuck
out who identify with coffee. Starbucks sure has cashed in on thousands
of dumb liberals who are willing to pay three or four bucks for a cup of
latte.

I wish you well but I hope you've got a brain for marketing. Maybe the
Mermaid is sharp there.

Wilbur Hubbard

On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:38:52 -0400, jeff wrote:

Joe wrote:

Mr Ukers says in the sailing ship delivery days cargo holds would
induce a natural sweating affect on the coffee. As a result, the
coffee will turn a rare shade of brown that brings a premium. It is
believed that this browning greatly improves the flavor and body of
coffee. In the old days Captains that brought in "extra brown" were
given a bonus. Coffee brought by sail was termed "ex-sailing ships."
After the turn of the century, there were attempts to duplicate the
browning process by steam heating coffee brought in by steamships but
it was never the same.

It is not clear this made better coffee for today's pallet. It was the
perception that this was better that raised the price. In addition, it
was actually only used then for the low quality Robusta beans, not the
high quality Arabica that make up the vast majority of today's specialty
market.

You must have missed Joe's original post, where his advertising lingo
addressed the perception issue. Something about "Sail transported
fine coffee." IMO, that kind of marketing will sell more coffee than
all the quaint "coffee expert" opinions on proper roasting, grinding,
storage, and brewing, which are pretty much ignored by all but coffee
fanatics.
After all, Starbucks, which you have dismissed, does quite well,
doesn't it? And I believe Gevalia is also a striving business.
Joe's market won't be coffee fanatics, but those whose fancy is caught
by the "sail transported" hype.
And that will make the coffee taste better to them.
That's how "perception" works. The best cups of coffee I've had
weren't because of the coffee, but because of my perceptions.
I think Joe's got a terrific idea, and as long as the coffee meets
some minimal standards and the marketing is well done, he's got a
winner product. The business cost and operating end is yet to be
determined, but I'm wishing him luck.
Man, I'm already thinking about sipping some sail transported coffee,
and feeling the "greenness and goodness" of it!

--Vic