"Goofball_star_dot_etal" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 07:37:04 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Wilbur Hubbard wrote, On 8/3/2007 7:31 PM:
Rescue required. When are they gonna do something about dangerous,
unseaworthy catamarans?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6930023.stm

Wilbur Hubbard

An old boat, with known structural problems has a complete structural
failure in rough weather and yet doesn't sink and all three elderly
sailors are rescued without injury. How many monohulls could break in
half, or even sustain a small puncture, without sinking?

I've been trying to find more info on this incident. It certainly
wasn't a normal cruising cat, since the two hulls are usually molded
as one, and breaking in half isn't possible without major trauma. It
was probably a racing cat converted to cruising, or a old homemade
boat.

There is a bit more he
http://www.lep.co.uk/news?articleid=3097982


Thanks for the link. It looks like Tantara was a Lagoon 38. At least
that's what Google returns. Sort of blows Jeff's theory all to hell that
it was some kind of cheap homebuilt. Notice how Tantara has the large
aluminum spar at the bow where the standing rigging attaches. Let the
bolts carry away on that and it's Katy bar the door.

Catamaran designs are inherently dangerous. You shouldn't have to go
around tightening bolts to keep your sailboat from falling apart.

Wilbur Hubbard

OzOne wrote in message
...
On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 14:04:14 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
scribbled thusly:



Catamaran designs are inherently dangerous. You shouldn't have to go
around tightening bolts to keep your sailboat from falling apart.

Wilbur Hubbard

Nor even pulling keelbolts regularly...to stop your only method of
remaining upright falling to the bottom of the ocean...?


That's why Roger MacGregor's so brilliant. Water ballast, man!

Two or three hulls in lieu of ballast is really really dumb. There's
not a sailing catamaran or trimaran made that's more stable rightside-up
than upside-down. Add the stability problem to the fact that leverage
factors dictate greater stresses and you're just sacrificing way too
much in a lame attempt to avoid a ballast keel.

If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel. Don't
substitute an unstable design. That's retarded. Another option that's
much smarter is a monohull such as the likes of an ETAP that uses foam
flotation in the hull that makes it unsinkable. People tend to use the
dumb excuse that catamarans and tri-marans tend to not sink because of
the multiple hulls one of which gets holed doesn't make the whole thing
sink. Just more faulty thinking trying to defend an untenable position
and unsuitable design.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
..
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
.
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'


Maybe that's what it means in Jolly Ole England but on this side of the
Pond an encapsulated keel is ballast inside a keel which is an integral
part of the hull. Usually chunks of lead or pig iron held in place with
concrete or resin.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com...

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
anews.com..
.
If you fear keel bolts then go with an encapsulated keel.

Encapsulated keels are still held on with bolts 'Wilbur'


Maybe that's what it means in Jolly Ole England but on this side of the
Pond an encapsulated keel is ballast inside a keel which is an integral
part of the hull. Usually chunks of lead or pig iron held in place with
concrete or resin.

Wilbur Hubbard

Yes, you are right. We are not talking the same language. What you describe
is certainly an encapsulated keel.
However my boat also has an encapsulated keel which in this case is a lead
keel held on with bolts and then covered with GRP enabling a really smooth
outside finish.
Often this is done to iron keels and the GRP also stops the iron from
rusting, (that is until you ground on something that splits the GRP and
allows the rust to start creeping up between the keel and the GRP).

I once boarded a small keelboat with 'your' type of encapsulated keel and
she heeled over so much I thought I was about to take a swim. She was
supposed to have 8 or 9 cwt of iron inthe keel.
I persuaded the owner to let me cut open his keel from inside the cabin and
found there was no iron there at all-the space in the keel was just filled
with foam! No wonder the builder went bust.
I raked out all the foam and put in 8 cwt of pig iron and glassed it in and
she instantly became a different boat to sail. The owner was a novice sailor
and did not realise that the boat was not supposed to sail to windward
heeled down to the gunwhales. (or even 'gunnels')