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OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Sicko': Heavily Doctored
Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. ************************************************** The problem with American health care, Moore argues, is that people are charged money to avail themselves of it. In other countries, like Canada, France and Britain, health systems are far superior - and they're free. He takes us to these countries to see a few clean, efficient hospitals, where treatment is quick and caring; and to meet a few doctors, who are delighted with their government-regulated salaries; and to listen to patients express their beaming happiness with a socialized health system. It sounds great. As one patient in a British hospital run by the country's National Health Service says, "No one pays. It's all on the NHS. It's not America." That last statement is even truer than you'd know from watching "Sicko." In the case of Canada - which Moore, like many other political activists, holds p as a utopian ideal of benevolent health-care regulation - a very different picture is conveyed by a short 2005 documentary called "Dead Meat," by Stuart Browning and Blaine Greenberg. These two filmmakers talked to a number of Canadians of a kind that Moore's movie would have you believe don't exist: A 52-year-old woman in Calgary recalls being in severe need of joint-replacement surgery after the cartilage in her knee wore out. She was put on a wait list and wound up waiting 16 months for the surgery. Her pain was so excruciating, she says, that she was prescribed large doses of Oxycontin, and soon became addicted. After finally getting her operation, she was put on another wait list - this time for drug rehab. A man tells about his mother waiting two years for life-saving cancer surgery - and then twice having her surgical appointments canceled. She was still waiting when she died. A man in critical need of neck surgery plays a voicemail message from a doctor he'd contacted: "As of today," she says, "it's a two-year wait-list to see me for an initial consultation." Later, when the man and his wife both needed hip-replacement surgery and grew exasperated after spending two years on a waiting list, they finally mortgaged their home and flew to Belgium to have the operations done there, with no more waiting. Rick Baker, the owner of a Toronto company called Timely Medical Alternatives, specializes in transporting Canadians who don't want to wait for medical care to Buffalo, New York, two hours away, where they won't have to. Baker's business is apparently thriving. And Dr. Brian Day, now the president of the Canadian Medical Association, muses about the bizarre distortions created by a law that prohibits Canadians from paying for even urgently-needed medical treatments, or from obtaining private health insurance. "It's legal to buy health insurance for your pets," Day says, "but illegal to buy health insurance for yourself." (Even more pointedly, Day was quoted in the Wall Street Journal this week as saying, "This is a country in which dogs can get a hip replacement in under a week and in which humans can wait two to three years.") Actually, this aspect of the Canadian health-care system is changing. In 2005, the Canadian Supreme Court ruled in favor of a man who had filed suit in Quebec over being kept on an interminable waiting list for treatment. In striking down the government health care monopoly in that province, Chief Justice Beverley McLachlin said, "Access to a waiting list is not access to health care." Now a similar suit has been filed in Ontario. What's the problem with government health systems? Moore's movie doesn't ask that question, although it does unintentionally provide an answer. When governments attempt to regulate the balance between a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand for it they're inevitably forced to ration treatment. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
What's the problem with government health systems?
Moore's movie doesn't ask that question, although it does unintentionally provide an answer. When governments attempt to regulate the balance between a limited supply of health care and an unlimited demand for it they're inevitably forced to ration treatment. So...we shouldn't have health care for everyone like in other countries because it has flaws? Because we can't do it even better than they can? I have quite a few European friends and all prefer the health care "over there" to here. In fact, with several having free care here and overseas, they often opt to fly over for better treatment. This is not the case for all procedures of course and you can come up with a zillion horror stories. I have about the best medical plan and care available since 4 of my closest family members are doctors/nurses and my wife is a nurse. I also have access to money that most people don't. And yet I still know that our medical system is a joke compared to overseas, as do many of the nurses we know who's come to the USA in recent years. No WMDs. RB 35s5 NY |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote:
What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Jun 30, 6:02 am, thunder wrote:
That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. Bull****. Try unions, and massive retirements. Joe In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"Bart" wrote in message oups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
OzOne wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message egroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 04:53:46 -0700, Joe wrote:
On Jun 30, 6:02 am, thunder wrote: That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. Bull****. Try unions, and massive retirements. LOL, ever hear of the Canadian Auto Workers? They split with the UAW because they didn't like the give- backs of their less militant brethren. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Auto_Workers As I'm sure you wouldn't believe anything that came out of the Washington Post or the New York Times, I've added a link to a few words GM's CEO Richard Wagoner has said: http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp...nguage=printer http://www.nytimes.com/2004/02/08/bu...y/08view.html? ex=1183348800&en=da2a056faa75dd28&ei=5070 http://www.thenewsherald.com/stories...40919004.shtml |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
I love it when folks talk about healthcare and then wrap it all up
with the economic factors. You can really spot the royal asshole that way. Bottom line: Every American should have health care because it's the ethical way. Period. There is simply no answer, no feasable and human alternative. Our current medical system is a complete horror show for too many good Americans. Period. Bart, go **** yourself. You're such an asshole with no clue about the poverty in this country. Why should you care? Oh, right. You're a dick. RB 35s5 NY |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder
wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. Rob wrote:
I love it when folks talk about healthcare and then wrap it all up with the economic factors. You can really spot the royal asshole that way. Bottom line: Every American should have health care because it's the ethical way. Period. There is simply no answer, no feasable and human alternative. Our current medical system is a complete horror show for too many good Americans. Period. Bart, go **** yourself. You're such an asshole with no clue about the poverty in this country. Why should you care? Oh, right. You're a dick. RB 35s5 NY I agree. Doctors should not charge for their services. Hostitals should have open doors. All hospital services should be free and the administration and support services should be from full-time volunteers with no compensation. All medical treatment should be given away. Its the only answer. Period. (TFPIC) |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message oups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have health care. Got it! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... OzOne wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message legroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... Wow... we should all rely on WalMart! Now that's logical thinking. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message egroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have health care. Got it! It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not a healthcare problem... http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation should be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had personal experience, on several levels, with Canada's national healthcare system...it is not something I would want for myself or any of mine (which is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is in Canada...they can tell you some real horror stories about national health care..) And why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic governemnt could hgandle anything like national health care? Expand Medicaid. Expand Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or drastically change the way insurance companies are allowed to exist. Those things are feasible. National health care, in our system, would be a sorry mess. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... OzOne wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message glegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... Wow... we should all rely on WalMart! Now that's logical thinking. Um...I think you got it wrong...that was a scathing remark about WalMart and their proclivity for buying Asian goods...and yes, the populace of the US does rely on WalMart, thus making us an economic hostage of China... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... OzOne wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message oglegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... Wow... we should all rely on WalMart! Now that's logical thinking. Um...I think you got it wrong...that was a scathing remark about WalMart and their proclivity for buying Asian goods...and yes, the populace of the US does rely on WalMart, thus making us an economic hostage of China... Um... you're right, but who's buying all those goods... WalMart customers. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message legroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have health care. Got it! It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not a healthcare problem... http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation should be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had personal experience, on several levels, with Canada's national healthcare system...it is not something I would want for myself or any of mine (which is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is in Canada...they can tell you some real horror stories about national health care..) And why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic governemnt could hgandle anything like national health care? Expand Medicaid. Expand Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or drastically change the way insurance companies are allowed to exist. Those things are feasible. National health care, in our system, would be a sorry mess. So, you're talking about expanding a gov't program to include all. I'm for it. "Expand Medicare" Besides, those who do have coverage are at risk of losing it should they lose their job, and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... OzOne wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message ooglegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... Wow... we should all rely on WalMart! Now that's logical thinking. Um...I think you got it wrong...that was a scathing remark about WalMart and their proclivity for buying Asian goods...and yes, the populace of the US does rely on WalMart, thus making us an economic hostage of China... Um... you're right, but who's buying all those goods... WalMart customers. Like I said...people here just don't get it...we're our own worst enemies... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message glegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have health care. Got it! It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not a healthcare problem... http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation should be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had personal experience, on several levels, with Canada's national healthcare system...it is not something I would want for myself or any of mine (which is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is in Canada...they can tell you some real horror stories about national health care..) And why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic governemnt could hgandle anything like national health care? Expand Medicaid. Expand Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or drastically change the way insurance companies are allowed to exist. Those things are feasible. National health care, in our system, would be a sorry mess. So, you're talking about expanding a gov't program to include all. I'm for it. "Expand Medicare" It's a program already in place and already working...reform it... Besides, those who do have coverage are at risk of losing it should they lose their job, that's why there's COBRA...you have 18 months, and sometimes more, to either get re-employed or find something else... and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay. Refuses to pay for waht? Platic surgery? Breat enhancements? Viagra? Quadruple by=pass on a 96 year old? |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... OzOne wrote: On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:40:19 -0400, katy scribbled thusly: Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message news:1183167385.992767.285800@m36g2000hse. googlegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... Your national debt is the worlds largest per capita....you will become part of Asia. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace, We've been expecting you. WalMart has been trying to accomplish that for the last 15 years...people here just don't get it...by Jon's way of thinking, then, the rest of the world should follow suit... Wow... we should all rely on WalMart! Now that's logical thinking. Um...I think you got it wrong...that was a scathing remark about WalMart and their proclivity for buying Asian goods...and yes, the populace of the US does rely on WalMart, thus making us an economic hostage of China... Um... you're right, but who's buying all those goods... WalMart customers. Like I said...people here just don't get it...we're our own worst enemies... Well, this people gets it. I don't shop at WalMart. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "katy" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "Bart" wrote in message oglegroups.com... Sicko': Heavily Doctored Is Michael Moore's prescription worse than the disease? By Kurt Loder http://www.mtv.com/movies/news/artic...58/story.jhtml Except of the above. We're the only "modern" country that doesn't have universal health care. They all must be wrong. Erroneous thinking...a preponderance of the world is Asian....we must change our genetics...a preponderance of the world is Muslim...we must all become Muslims... So, I guess it's ok with you if 12 million American children don't have health care. Got it! It's 8.9m and a goodly number of them ARE eligible for Medicaid or other programs but aren't enrolled...thus making it an education problem, not a healthcare problem... http://www.aap.org/research/factsheet.pdf To ameliorate the problem of those that don't qualify, legislation should be passed that finds a way to take care of them...I've had personal experience, on several levels, with Canada's national healthcare system...it is not something I would want for myself or any of mine (which is a joke because half my mother's side of the family is in Canada...they can tell you some real horror stories about national health care..) And why would you think our overburdened, bureaucratic governemnt could hgandle anything like national health care? Expand Medicaid. Expand Medicare. Nationalize insurance companies or drastically change the way insurance companies are allowed to exist. Those things are feasible. National health care, in our system, would be a sorry mess. So, you're talking about expanding a gov't program to include all. I'm for it. "Expand Medicare" It's a program already in place and already working...reform it... Besides, those who do have coverage are at risk of losing it should they lose their job, that's why there's COBRA...you have 18 months, and sometimes more, to either get re-employed or find something else... Cobra is great, but some employers don't offer insurance, so no Cobra. and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay. Refuses to pay for waht? Platic surgery? Breat enhancements? Viagra? Quadruple by=pass on a 96 year old? There are many instances of insurance companies refusing to pay or burying people in red tape. I'm sure you can find plenty of examples! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
Cobra is great, but some employers don't offer insurance, so no Cobra. So maybe potential employees should pay more attention to the benefits package employers offer? Or get a compensation package that allows them to purchase their own insurance? and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay. Refuses to pay for waht? Platic surgery? Breat enhancements? Viagra? Quadruple by=pass on a 96 year old? There are many instances of insurance companies refusing to pay or burying people in red tape. I'm sure you can find plenty of examples! And is nationalized / socialized insurance is any better? Bureaucrats are bureaucrats regardless of whether they are with private insurers or work for a govt. Canada is a great example of how nationalized insurance fails. They offer all the problems of private insurance amplified by a non-responsive govt bureaucracy. Keep in perspective that Michael Moore is in business to promote his film. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Cal Vanize" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: Cobra is great, but some employers don't offer insurance, so no Cobra. So maybe potential employees should pay more attention to the benefits package employers offer? Or get a compensation package that allows them to purchase their own insurance? Maybe and maybe. I would say that companies should be required to offer insurance benefits and that benefits should follow a person whether they're employed by the same company or not. Insurance companies can't be sued. Medicare can't negotiate for the cost they pay for drugs unlike the VA system. This isn't right. The package that Congress has is pretty great. Why can't regular people have the same benefits? and they're at risk when insurance companies refuse to pay. Refuses to pay for waht? Platic surgery? Breat enhancements? Viagra? Quadruple by=pass on a 96 year old? There are many instances of insurance companies refusing to pay or burying people in red tape. I'm sure you can find plenty of examples! And is nationalized / socialized insurance is any better? Bureaucrats are bureaucrats regardless of whether they are with private insurers or work for a govt. Not saying it's going to be better or worse. It's pretty clear that the current system is working only for those who can afford it, leaving millions uninsured and millions more under-insured. Canada is a great example of how nationalized insurance fails. They offer all the problems of private insurance amplified by a non-responsive govt bureaucracy. Everyone keeps mentioning Canada, except I didn't. Why is it not possible to take the good things and leave the bad things? Must we adopt the Canadian system wholesale? Seems pretty narrow-minded and limiting. But, it sounds great. Keep in perspective that Michael Moore is in business to promote his film. I know... capitalism is a bad thing.... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
* Capt. JG wrote, On 6/30/2007 12:48 PM:
Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. Actually you should say most of the US. As of tomorrow, Massachusetts essentially has universal health care. All residents are required to have coverage, and employers have strong incentives to contribute. Coverage is free, or very cheap for low income families. Insurers have to charge the same for non-group as group - in fact my non-group cost will be much lower than my current group insurance. Th rest of the country is watching how this plays out - it could be a model for other progressive states. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Jeff" wrote in message
... * Capt. JG wrote, On 6/30/2007 12:48 PM: Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. Actually you should say most of the US. As of tomorrow, Massachusetts essentially has universal health care. All residents are required to have coverage, and employers have strong incentives to contribute. Coverage is free, or very cheap for low income families. Insurers have to charge the same for non-group as group - in fact my non-group cost will be much lower than my current group insurance. Th rest of the country is watching how this plays out - it could be a model for other progressive states. You mean not the fly-over states. :-) Well, I'm not going to worry about it for the week of the 4th. We're headed to Lake Mead for a nice, relaxing vacation... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message ups.com... I love it when folks talk about healthcare and then wrap it all up with the economic factors. You can really spot the royal asshole that way. Bottom line: Every American should have health care because it's the ethical way. Period. There is simply no answer, no feasable and human alternative. Our current medical system is a complete horror show for too many good Americans. Period. Bart, go **** yourself. You're such an asshole with no clue about the poverty in this country. Why should you care? Oh, right. You're a dick. RB 35s5 NY Oh the hypocrisy! This is after you bragged how much your wife makes as a nurse! Tell us about your yacht, sports cars, vans, rental houses, lakefront properties, coin collections, telescopes, access to untold funds and then lecture US on how we don't know or care or do something about poverty! Tell everyone they are trailer trash and then tell them they don't understand poverty like you! Tell us how rich you are and how you know about poverty better than everyone else!! Tell us! Tell us how much your wife makes as a nurse! Tell us how that is so much more than any of us make! Tell us how you care about those less fortunate than you! Tell us! Tell us, lecture us and lead a life that is the exact opposite of what you preach! Tell us! Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! But do tell us!!! |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Bob Crantz wrote:
"Capt. Rob" wrote in message snip RB 35s5 NY snip Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! Hold on.... This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all American society all the way to the bank. Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't have insurance. The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they serve a vast community, mostly quite well. You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents couldn't afford decent health insurance. We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk about decency when it comes to our own. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 08:29:15 -0500, Nathan Branden
wrote: snippity-snip No liberals in the USMC. NB You were never in the USMC Nathan. There is the same percentage of liberals in the Corps as in the society that supplies it with Marines. Being a Marine doesn't have anything to do with politics Nathan. Mark E. Williams |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Cal Vanize wrote:
Bob Crantz wrote: "Capt. Rob" wrote in message snip RB 35s5 NY snip Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! Hold on.... This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all American society all the way to the bank. Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation. I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
katy wrote:
Cal Vanize wrote: Bob Crantz wrote: "Capt. Rob" wrote in message snip RB 35s5 NY snip Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! Hold on.... This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all American society all the way to the bank. Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation. I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies... He's making a killing selling "documentaries" to the uninformed. He exaggerates more than Ted Kennedy with the neck brace. |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't have insurance. It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices. That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for the government to step in. The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they serve a vast community, mostly quite well. So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a system that works "quite well" You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents couldn't afford decent health insurance. No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents. We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk about decency when it comes to our own And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond. Frank |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message m... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't have insurance. It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices. That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for the government to step in. The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they serve a vast community, mostly quite well. So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a system that works "quite well" You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents couldn't afford decent health insurance. No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents. We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk about decency when it comes to our own And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond. Frank Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance coverage at any time. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Cal Vanize wrote: Bob Crantz wrote: "Capt. Rob" wrote in message snip RB 35s5 NY snip Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! Hold on.... This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all American society all the way to the bank. Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation. I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies... If someone doesn't agree with you, then that person must be deluded. Seems like a lot of effort lately doesn't it, especially given who you voted for in the last two presidential elections. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
On Jun 30, 10:56 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
, especially given who you voted for in the last two presidential elections. -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Spoken like someone who voted for the loser last two elections..huh? Did you ever pay up on that bet you made here and lost...? Loser!...you lost, your vote was wasted, cuz U lost! Bwahahaahhahah loser. Then when you win you lose, cuz the people you voted for lied to you, and are getting fat at the troff instead of doing anything the first 100 months. Loser. Do you still have that Kerry bumper sticker, right under your rainbow bumper sticker, on your mazda miata? Joe |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message om... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't have insurance. It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices. That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for the government to step in. The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they serve a vast community, mostly quite well. So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a system that works "quite well" You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents couldn't afford decent health insurance. No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents. We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk about decency when it comes to our own And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond. Frank Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance coverage at any time. Insurance is just that...the hedge agaisnt the bet that you may or may not need it...but in one respect, you're correct...if a person is magnificently healthy, then putting the money into an HSA might be a better thing to do... |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
Capt. JG wrote:
"katy" wrote in message ... Cal Vanize wrote: Bob Crantz wrote: "Capt. Rob" wrote in message snip RB 35s5 NY snip Oh the hypocrisy!!!!! Hold on.... This controversy is all about Michael Moore making more money stirring up controversy. He's making a career out of this and laughing at all American society all the way to the bank. Don't lead yourself to think there's any other motivation. I don't think that's it...I think he is one of those altruistic people who thinks they are doing the right thing...some of the things he says are valid...the approach he takes, though, isn't and his conclusions and his solutions are off base...I do not think he is an evil man..I just think he is vastly de;luded...too much contact with Al Gore and his cronies... If someone doesn't agree with you, then that person must be deluded. Seems like a lot of effort lately doesn't it, especially given who you voted for in the last two presidential elections. You haven't a clue who I voted for in the last two elections...I wrote in...unless you have some pull with the township I was registered in and offered some sort of bribe, you cannot make that claim. And I am not the only person that feels that Michael Moore is a deluded individual...as per other posts to this group...If someone doesn't agree with yo, you harangue and harass and become a total pain in the backside...why not try a nice pill once in a while and stop making wild conjectures? |
OT Michael Moore proves he is the sicko
"katy" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 18:19:08 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message m... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 09:48:00 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Frank Boettcher" wrote in message news:mntc83d9rodko0301h8hdoag3e5llnpa0h@4ax. com... On Sat, 30 Jun 2007 11:02:01 -0000, thunder wrote: On Fri, 29 Jun 2007 18:36:25 -0700, Bart wrote: What's the problem with government health systems? What's more important, continued support for a private health care system, or American jobs? It seems to be overlooked that our health care system costs upwards of 15% GDP, while those countries with universal health care spend @10% GDP. That extra 5% is the reason is the reason our automotive sector is fleeing north, expanding operations in Canada, while curtailing them here. In a global economy, 5% extra cost puts us at a considerable economic disadvantage. Ignore that at your peril. All manufacturing is fleeing, not just automotive, and health care cost is a major driver. I know, I've been there. But universal health care is not the answer. Just recently, at a medical school close to my home, the state legislature mandated to the board of higher education that the number of seats be increased. There is a very large supply of eligible candidates, many don't get in. It is the AMA's very sucessful, long standing attempt to control the supply side, keeping fee schedules very high. That's just job losses. Let's not consider the lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality our health system provides. Our health care system doesn't have anything to do with this. It is a matter of lifestyle choices. Want a lower infant mortality rate? how about a lower rate of teen mothers on drugs and alcohol. Want a longer life expectancy? How about everyone get off your buns and get some exercise and drop the high fat, high sugar diet. Frank Who runs 36 miles a week and at 60 has no aging diseases. No diabetes, no high blood pressure, no cardiovascular issues, no joint, ligament, or cartilage issues. Universal health care is available in all modern cultures except ours. I'm sure we're glad you're healthy and can afford health care, but no one has a contract with God. And you miss the entire point. Adopting healthier lifestyles has nothing to do with having a contract with God. It just diminishes the need for the" healthcare" that we have come to believe is an entitlement in this country, that is we can eat horribly, be obese, smoke, lead completely sedentary lives, and if pregnant, take drugs, alcohol and smoke, and we or our newborn will remain healthy, and if that doesn't work, someone else has to pay to make it happen. Anything the government has ever gotten involved in that requires cost control and reasonable product or service has been a disaster. Frank And you've missed the point as well... all of your attempts to remain healthy are great, but that has little to do with the money required to save your life or give you a decent quality of life if you get sick and don't have insurance. It is the point. I go to the doctor once a year for him to tell me I'm healthy. There is no burdon on the system. Of course I'm paying an exorbitant amount for health insurance which I don't need in order to pay for those that have not made those healthy lifestyle choices. That's how it works, and the only thing that can make it worse is for the government to step in. The VA insurance is a great example of gov't run healthcare that for the most part works. They can negotiate prices for drugs, they serve a vast community, mostly quite well. So have you used the VA system? I had two close relatives now deceased, who used the excellent VA system. father in law was one of them. I'm not even going to comment on your assessment of it as a system that works "quite well" You're very quick to say that healthcare is an entitlement, as though it isn't needed, not really. It is needed and that's demonstrated by the millions who are uninsured, pushing up the costs for those who are. It's demonstrated by people's inability to get affordable insurance that sticks with them, rather than changes with their employer. A child of four getting cancer is not a life-style problem, but gods forbid if that child's parents couldn't afford decent health insurance. No, what I said is that we seem to believe we can live horrible lifestyles and we have an entitlement to have some system that is subsidized by others, either the government or the people in a group who are making the healthy choices, to offset the effects of those poor lifestyle choices. That's what sucks up the resources that would be available for those exceptional cases where the illness is no fault of the patient. And please site the case where a four year old is not treated for cancer, whatever the financial status of the parents. We're very, very quick to talk about "freedom," but we sure are slow to talk about decency when it comes to our own And with that statement, I wonder why I even bother to respond. Frank Why are you paying for health insurance if you claim you don't and won't need it? Seems foolish. You are free to drop your health insurance coverage at any time. Insurance is just that...the hedge agaisnt the bet that you may or may not need it...but in one respect, you're correct...if a person is magnificently healthy, then putting the money into an HSA might be a better thing to do... Frank just got telling us that he doesn't need insurance because he's healthy. Can't imagine why he would need an HSA either. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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