I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs. I've seen about
half a dozen that were advertised for sale by owner. I was hoping to get
a real bargain but that seems to be too much to hope for. Why? Well,
it's because everybody luvs their Macs. Two of the sellers said they'd
rather just keep their Macs than sell them for a low-ball price. One
other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and fits them out
and sells them for thousands more than he paid for them. He says he
never has to sit on them for more than a month at most and most sell the
first week he puts them on the market. I've seen several really choice
ones but they wanted more for them than I paid for mine new.

That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular. I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement. Compared to a Mac26X they are
a bad investiment.

--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.egordon873.homestead.com/drug.html

On Jun 6, 1:50 pm, Ed Gordon wrote:
I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs....snip...

Here's an idea. This coming presidential election, vote Democratic.
With control of two branches of government, Democrats can define
"marriage" as being open to any two parties, not just a man and a
woman. Then, you can marry your freaking Mac. Thus, the sexual acts
you obviously desire to have with your boat will be legal.

Frank (I did a lot of LSD in my day but it never made me fall in love
with a crappy pseudo-sailboat. Drugs are not as bad as stupidity.)

Frank wrote in news:1181163978.683261.309630
@n15g2000prd.googlegroups.com:

On Jun 6, 1:50 pm, Ed Gordon wrote:
I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs....snip...

Here's an idea. This coming presidential election, vote Democratic.
With control of two branches of government, Democrats can define
"marriage" as being open to any two parties, not just a man and a
woman. Then, you can marry your freaking Mac. Thus, the sexual acts
you obviously desire to have with your boat will be legal.

Frank (I did a lot of LSD in my day but it never made me fall in love
with a crappy pseudo-sailboat. Drugs are not as bad as stupidity.)



What's your problem, man? Jealous because you don't own a Mac? Well,
there's nothing to be jealous for. I used to own a Mac but I sold her
and now I'm looking to buy another. I don't think the Mac26M is a better
boat than the Mac26X. I don't think there are any multi-purpose boats as
good as a Mac26X. I'm entitled to my opinion. If you don't like it why
don't you blow it out your ass.

You admit you did illegal recreational drugs and you're raggin on me?
Man, you need to get a klue! I mighta did drugs but not on purpose. The
cult church I got involved with put drugs in my drinks and probably in
the food. It made it easier for them to brainwash people and get all
they owned bequeethed to the church.

Don't be a dope. Don't do drugs.

--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.egordon873.homestead.com/drug.html

On Jun 6, 1:50 pm, Ed Gordon wrote:
I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs. I've seen about
half a dozen that were advertised for sale by owner. I was hoping to get
a real bargain but that seems to be too much to hope for. Why? Well,
it's because everybody luvs their Macs. Two of the sellers said they'd
rather just keep their Macs than sell them for a low-ball price. One
other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and fits them out
and sells them for thousands more than he paid for them. He says he
never has to sit on them for more than a month at most and most sell the
first week he puts them on the market. I've seen several really choice
ones but they wanted more for them than I paid for mine new.

That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular. I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement. Compared to a Mac26X they are
a bad investiment.

So:
popular = good.
Lots of people using them = best choice for everyone
good investment = good sailboat
and
you buy boats for the resale value not for the quality of
craftmanship, safety, enjoyment or satisfaction in learning to sail.

Got it.

Thanks Neal

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/6/2007 4:50 PM:
I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs. I've seen about
half a dozen that were advertised for sale by owner. I was hoping to get
a real bargain but that seems to be too much to hope for. Why? Well,
it's because everybody luvs their Macs. Two of the sellers said they'd
rather just keep their Macs than sell them for a low-ball price. One
other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and fits them out
and sells them for thousands more than he paid for them. He says he
never has to sit on them for more than a month at most and most sell the
first week he puts them on the market. I've seen several really choice
ones but they wanted more for them than I paid for mine new.

That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular. I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement. Compared to a Mac26X they are
a bad investiment.


It tells me there are real idiots buying Macs. I mean, really, if you
can make "thousands" of dollars by cleaning the boat, that can only
mean that there was one person so disgusted with it he wanted to dump
it quickly without even cleaning it, and another person will to pay a
premium because it was shiny.

Jeff wrote in
:

* Ed Gordon wrote, On 6/6/2007 4:50 PM:
I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs. I've seen about
half a dozen that were advertised for sale by owner. I was hoping to
get a real bargain but that seems to be too much to hope for. Why?
Well, it's because everybody luvs their Macs. Two of the sellers said
they'd rather just keep their Macs than sell them for a low-ball
price. One other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and
fits them out and sells them for thousands more than he paid for
them. He says he never has to sit on them for more than a month at
most and most sell the first week he puts them on the market. I've
seen several really choice ones but they wanted more for them than I
paid for mine new.

That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular. I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement. Compared to a Mac26X they
are a bad investiment.


It tells me there are real idiots buying Macs. I mean, really, if you
can make "thousands" of dollars by cleaning the boat, that can only
mean that there was one person so disgusted with it he wanted to dump
it quickly without even cleaning it, and another person will to pay a
premium because it was shiny.




You're the only one here whose an idiot, man. You spent probably two
hours on a post I've gotta answer next and you just wrote lame opinions
and you had some nerve calling them facts. Why do you hate Macs?

People's situtations change. They have a Mac in the driveway and they
have to move or something and they don't want the boat anymore. So they
sell it cheap to keep from having to move it across the country. It's
hard enough moving all their furniture and stuff. And they might be too
far from water to make it easy to go sailing. There's lots of reasons,
man.Use your head. Anything you sell if you detail it you can ask more
for it because it looks sharp. Most people think something that looks
new and shiny must be good and something that looks ratty must be bad.
It's just smart salesmanship.


--
Cheerio,
Ed Gordon
http://www.egordon873.homestead.com/drug.html

* Ed Gordon wrote,
That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular.

Definitely!

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/5915
http://www.marinesource.com/boat_sal...x_2020030.html
http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listi...oats=1424 670

Price new:
http://www.macgregorsailboats.com/ma...t-pricing.html



..... I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement.

Of course not, boats can't talk.

.... Compared to a Mac26X they are
a bad investiment.

Yep. Definitely.


"Jeff" wrote:
It tells me there are real idiots buying Macs. I mean, really, if you
can make "thousands" of dollars by cleaning the boat, that can only
mean that there was one person so disgusted with it he wanted to dump
it quickly without even cleaning it

It also begs the question, how did it get dirty in the first place?

.... and another person will to pay a
premium because it was shiny.

Shiny! Big motor!!
mm-m-mm-must b-bb-buy!!


Don't call them idiots Jeff, they've just been programmed by a
comically misoriented consumer society. Personally I feel sorry for
them.

DSK

On Wed, 6 Jun 2007 22:50:13 +0200 (CEST), Ed Gordon
wrote:

I've spent the past two days looking at used Mac26Xs. I've seen about
half a dozen that were advertised for sale by owner. I was hoping to get
a real bargain but that seems to be too much to hope for. Why? Well,
it's because everybody luvs their Macs. Two of the sellers said they'd
rather just keep their Macs than sell them for a low-ball price.

Yeah, they really hold their price. A few likely reasons, in no
particular order. Might be out-of-the-box thinking here, since the
MacX/M are called "Powersailors," not "Sailboats."
1. Even if the owner gets tired or "sailing," he still has a decently
fuel economical and trailerable powerboat, with about the same cabin
space of a $75k Bayliner. But about 18'' draft. Leave mast and sails
at home. Some do that, and look at it as powerboat only.
2. Macs normally don't have holding tanks/stinking hoses, don't smell
like ****, and don't have **** floating in the bilge.
3. You can park it in your yard, and avoid mooring/dock/layup costs.
4. If you decide to go overland, just hook up the trailer and you've
got instant Winnebago.
5. They aren't tricked out like a Victorian whorehouse - very little
wood and cabinetry to maintain. Some people don't think wood and salt
mix. Simple and easily reached electrics. One thru-hull for a sink
drain?
6. They are recent - the oldest X is '95, M 2002(?)
7. While Macs are light, glass quality is consistently good, no balsa
in the hulls. I wouldn't even bother with a survey on these.
8. They sail at the low end of performance. Some sailors modify them
to reach moderate sailing performance in most but light air.
Most of the forgoing items are more important than sailing performance
to Mac buyers. If they just wanted to sail, they'd get a performing
sailboat.

There might be more reasons Macs hold their price, but those are the
big hitters. Some of those reasons are real attractive to me, but
DAMN! I don't have the cash to afford a Mac!
I've read quite a bit on the Mac forum, and boy do I envy those guys.
Super-cool bunch too. Polite and helpful.

One other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and fits them out
and sells them for thousands more than he paid for them. He says he
never has to sit on them for more than a month at most and most sell the
first week he puts them on the market. I've seen several really choice
ones but they wanted more for them than I paid for mine new.

That guy was probably lying to you. Lot of that going on.
It's just plain difficult to get any good deal on a Mac.
But not impossible, so maybe this guy is sharp.

That should tell you Mac bashers something. Macs are holding their
resale value so it means they keep staying very popular. I bet your
heavy keel boat can't make that statement. Compared to a Mac26X they are
a bad investiment.

Yeah, but some us just don't look at a boat as an "investment."
Though I just can't afford a Mac right now, doesn't mean I can't
get something cheaper. I can hire a homeless person to pull out
all the warped/rotten cabinets, the "sanitary" and electric systems,
and clean the **** from the bilges if I go for an older keel boat.
But that's only the start on an older cheap boat. And that old keel
is still going to keep it from going into the gunkholes where a Mac
commonly goes.
I don't know, I just don't know. Maybe it's time to visit Capt'n
Neal's website for some advice. I think he covers the best methods
for a non-wealthy person to buy a boat. He's another polite and
helpful guy. Sometimes.

--Vic

* Vic Smith wrote, On 6/7/2007 12:02 AM:

Yeah, they really hold their price.

Do they? I just looked a YachtWorld and there were several about 5
years old that were 2/3 the price of a new one - and that includes a
trailer and a big engine. This is a myth.

A few likely reasons, in no
particular order. Might be out-of-the-box thinking here, since the
MacX/M are called "Powersailors," not "Sailboats."

Yes, its true they have a unique niche, and for some people its a good
choice. If you like to drive around the country and power/sail in
lakes, it could be nice.

1. Even if the owner gets tired or "sailing," he still has a decently
fuel economical and trailerable powerboat, with about the same cabin
space of a $75k Bayliner. But about 18'' draft. Leave mast and sails
at home. Some do that, and look at it as powerboat only.

There are much, much better powerboats, including the Bayliner. And
are you sure about that comparison, or are you just parroting someone
else's comment? The Bayliner will carry more people further and
faster and in much more comfort than the Mac. And it only draws 20".

2. Macs normally don't have holding tanks/stinking hoses, don't smell
like ****, and don't have **** floating in the bilge.

Are you seriously claiming that having to use a porta-pottie is a
major advantage? This is sounding a lot like the mac is the boat for
people who never want to use a boat.

And didn't the factory have to add an inspection port so you could
tell if water was accumulating in the bilge? And wasn't that because
the boat would be dangerously unstable with too much bilge water?

3. You can park it in your yard, and avoid mooring/dock/layup costs.

True, but how is this different from all of the other trailer boats?

4. If you decide to go overland, just hook up the trailer and you've
got instant Winnebago.

True, but how is this different from all of the other trailer boats?

5. They aren't tricked out like a Victorian whorehouse - very little
wood and cabinetry to maintain. Some people don't think wood and salt
mix. Simple and easily reached electrics. One thru-hull for a sink
drain?

This speaks more to a desire to do limited inland, daysailing. I go
out for several weeks at a time, sometimes with guests. We've cruised
for a year at a time. Would you want to do that with just a little
porta-pottie?

Wood is just a matter of style - most boats nowadays have very little
outside wood; mine has none.

6. They are recent - the oldest X is '95, M 2002(?)

OK. Its pretty funny to see the same broker list a new boat at 37K
and a four year old boat at under 22K while you're claiming they "hold
their value."

7. While Macs are light, glass quality is consistently good, no balsa
in the hulls. I wouldn't even bother with a survey on these.

You must be the type of person who always wins at the casino.

8. They sail at the low end of performance. Some sailors modify them
to reach moderate sailing performance in most but light air.

whatever - certainly there are a few who have stripped them out and
sail without ballast, but is this a reason to buy one???

Most of the forgoing items are more important than sailing performance
to Mac buyers. If they just wanted to sail, they'd get a performing
sailboat.

Most of those "advantages" don't hold up to close inspection. With
the exception of being able to use the large engine, they are not much
different from other trailer sailers, except that the don't sail as
nicely. MacGregor did not invent the concept of a simple boat with an
outboard engine.


There might be more reasons Macs hold their price, but those are the
big hitters.

I'm sorry, are you really claiming they hold their value because they
have a porta-pottie???

Some of those reasons are real attractive to me, but
DAMN! I don't have the cash to afford a Mac!

Are you sure? I saw some with an asking price under 15K. Without the
big engine maybe you could get one for 12.

I've read quite a bit on the Mac forum, and boy do I envy those guys.
Super-cool bunch too. Polite and helpful.

You mean like boaters almost everywhere, except at ASA?


One other guy says he buys a couple a year, cleans them up and fits them out
and sells them for thousands more than he paid for them. He says he
never has to sit on them for more than a month at most and most sell the
first week he puts them on the market. I've seen several really choice
ones but they wanted more for them than I paid for mine new.

That guy was probably lying to you. Lot of that going on.
It's just plain difficult to get any good deal on a Mac.
But not impossible, so maybe this guy is sharp.

Duh! Ed is making this up. If it is Ed.


Yeah, but some us just don't look at a boat as an "investment."
Though I just can't afford a Mac right now, doesn't mean I can't
get something cheaper. I can hire a homeless person to pull out
all the warped/rotten cabinets, the "sanitary" and electric systems,
and clean the **** from the bilges if I go for an older keel boat.
But that's only the start on an older cheap boat. And that old keel
is still going to keep it from going into the gunkholes where a Mac
commonly goes.

If that's where you want to go, you need shallow draft. If you want
to sail in the ocean, you'll be happier with a real keel. There are
many older trailer sailers that can be had on any budget, if that what
you want. You can also get a keel boat pretty cheap that doesn't need
to be gutted.

I don't know, I just don't know. Maybe it's time to visit Capt'n
Neal's website for some advice. I think he covers the best methods
for a non-wealthy person to buy a boat. He's another polite and
helpful guy. Sometimes.

But remember, Neal lost his "unsinkable" boat.

On Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:04:20 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 6/7/2007 12:02 AM:

Yeah, they really hold their price.

Do they? I just looked a YachtWorld and there were several about 5
years old that were 2/3 the price of a new one - and that includes a
trailer and a big engine. This is a myth.

May be. But if you look at the prices for some of the older ones, I
bet they actually list them at more than they cost new. Remember that
anything prior to '95 isn't a X/M. Anyway, the listed price isn't
necessarily the real cost, so you may be right.

1. Even if the owner gets tired or "sailing," he still has a decently
fuel economical and trailerable powerboat, with about the same cabin
space of a $75k Bayliner. But about 18'' draft. Leave mast and sails
at home. Some do that, and look at it as powerboat only.

There are much, much better powerboats, including the Bayliner. And
are you sure about that comparison, or are you just parroting someone
else's comment? The Bayliner will carry more people further and
faster and in much more comfort than the Mac. And it only draws 20".

Yeah, I'm parroting somebody on the Mac group who was looking at
Bayliners for boating/weekending with his wife and kids. He did some
research, and what he said was all reasonable. It's easy enough to
verify. Most of those Bayliners (one of my kids had one) have 350's
and are real gas hogs. Never looked myself.

2. Macs normally don't have holding tanks/stinking hoses, don't smell
like ****, and don't have **** floating in the bilge.

Are you seriously claiming that having to use a porta-pottie is a
major advantage? This is sounding a lot like the mac is the boat for
people who never want to use a boat.

No, just that about every cruising log I've read has multiple
instances of plumbing failures and **** fouling the boat.
Maybe sailors just don't make good plumbers.
Personally, even though I *was* a plumber, I'd probably go with an
Airhead, and stow an extra **** tank if necessary. They're expensive,
but probably less costly in the long run.

And didn't the factory have to add an inspection port so you could
tell if water was accumulating in the bilge? And wasn't that because
the boat would be dangerously unstable with too much bilge water?

Lot's of ways to find something to criticize with any boat. That's
one. The stability stuff is overblown.

Wood is just a matter of style - most boats nowadays have very little
outside wood; mine has none.

Some folks just love to spend time rubbing teak.
But for anything but a liveaboard I don't like any more wood
below than necessary. Darkens the quarters, demands
care and covers the mechanicals. For the kind of boat use
I have in mind a spartan boat is better.

6. They are recent - the oldest X is '95, M 2002(?)

OK. Its pretty funny to see the same broker list a new boat at 37K
and a four year old boat at under 22K while you're claiming they "hold
their value."

That 37K broker price means nothing.
What it cost to buy and equip a new boat - Mac or other -
isn't a secret. In looking at many ads and reading accounts it seems
to me the Mac does real well with resale value, but frankly I haven't
priced many boats that are somewhat comparable, because there just
aren't many out there. I'd pay a nice premium for a boat that had
just simple Mac amenities, gunkholing ability and known good glass,
but better sailing performance. I'd like a small diesel myself, since
I'm not interested in speeding about. Outside of multi-hulls, a
knee-deep anchorage boat with some space aboard will never sail as
well as a keel. But they will sail, and are economical to move, if
slowly.

8. They sail at the low end of performance. Some sailors modify them
to reach moderate sailing performance in most but light air.

whatever - certainly there are a few who have stripped them out and
sail without ballast, but is this a reason to buy one???

One guy has a custom weighted daggerboard, custom rudders, sails,
rigging mods, etc. He keeps the ballast full, since only hot dogs do
otherwise because you *will* get knocked down.
Don't know what it's cost him, but he's having a lot of fun sailing SF
Bay in 30kt air. Points to 45, but an aft quartering sea sometimes
knocks him sideways putting him in broach mode. Light boat with
no keel, and you can't escape that.

Most of those "advantages" don't hold up to close inspection. With
the exception of being able to use the large engine, they are not much
different from other trailer sailers, except that the don't sail as
nicely. MacGregor did not invent the concept of a simple boat with an
outboard engine.

Yeah, I've heard that before. I clipped a list of trailer sailers
names Doug had in a post, and went looking for them.
Most were 25-40 years old sitting in backyards with birds nesting in
them.
But if you've got recommendations for gunkholers I'm all ears.
And I'm not keen about trailerable. I might even pay to keep
a trailerable waterside so I don't have to haul it around. The
trailerables are just commonly gunkholers and relatively inexpensive.
If I had my druthers I'd like more beam and length than the
trailerables. But trailerables still fit, since my aim is Florida
west coast key and sandbar excursions, and some Gulf fishing.
Couple weeks at a time. Three weeks max.

Are you sure? I saw some with an asking price under 15K. Without the
big engine maybe you could get one for 12.

That would be great, but I haven't run across that. Anyway, like I
remember Capt'n Neal saying on his website - don't pay an arm and
a leg for your first sailboat. Good advice.

I've read quite a bit on the Mac forum, and boy do I envy those guys.
Super-cool bunch too. Polite and helpful.

You mean like boaters almost everywhere, except at ASA?

heh heh


If that's where you want to go, you need shallow draft. If you want
to sail in the ocean, you'll be happier with a real keel. There are
many older trailer sailers that can be had on any budget, if that what
you want. You can also get a keel boat pretty cheap that doesn't need
to be gutted.

Yep, the shallow draft is tops on my list. Probably will never do any
ocean sailing. But who knows? I'm all talk right now.
That why I appreciate hearing about sailing from all the real sailors
here. Real people, with real sailing experience.
Ain't that cool?

I don't know, I just don't know. Maybe it's time to visit Capt'n
Neal's website for some advice. I think he covers the best methods
for a non-wealthy person to buy a boat. He's another polite and
helpful guy. Sometimes.

But remember, Neal lost his "unsinkable" boat.

A mere temporary setback, I'm sure. Like Ed Gordon, he will sail
again.

--Vic