On May 29, 10:03 pm, "Capt. Rob" wrote:
It's always sad when seemingly intelligent people ignore serious
environmental problems simply because they don't like the people who
are involved in trying to fix them. Most major scientific
organizations, including my father's friends at The Museum of Natural
History know what's happening They have a research station in
Greenland and it's downright scary.

Nice work, Bart. You're a ****ing idiot. Notice the latest twice a
year accidental dumping in the LIS? I guess you don't believe that
either.

RB
35s5
NY


Instead of discussing things like a gentleman, you are vulgar,
hateful, nasty, and mean spirited. How could anyone take you
seriously when you act like a kook.

Too bad you are not a gentleman Rob. You would see that
there is more to the argument that one side. I believe that
we should take reasonable measures to protect the environment
I just don't agree with all the BS associated with your liberal
views on how it is caused.

Study the Little Ice Age and consider all the ramifications.
Ask also what was the period just before the Little Ice Age like?
Warm eh? Very warm? With bountiful crops? How could that be?

The Earth has gone through warmer phases than this and not
so long ago. We should not expect the Earth to stay exactly
as it is. It never has and it never will be static. Man didn't
start
it and we can't stop it short of taking extreme measures. There
is nothing that Kyoto would do that would have any significant
impact on global warming. I read that. However, I do support
preserving our environment is intelligent well-thought out ways.
I don't support radicalizing it and making hate speech about it.

If you really want to take measures to prevent global warming, why
don't your support using a nuke to start a volcano and put some
dust in the atmosphere? That would solve the problem overnight.
If you really believe Global Warming needs to be stopped that would
work and could be done right now, this year, unstead of the inevitable
warming change everyone is saying will occur.

10,000 years ago, the coastline was at what is now 60 fathoms. Why
not get all that coastline back they way it used to be. We should
have walrus off the coast of LI again! That makes as much sense
as your kook views.

You take the view that man is responsible for all evil. I take
a more hopeful view. You further take the view that the US is
the root of all evil. I disagree with that also. What does Kyoto
Require of China or India? They should keep polluting? I don't
think we should be tied to a different standard than everyone
else. I do think we should find ways to mimimize human
impact on the environment that make sense. To do that we
need open and honest discussion without the hateful language.
It would be better to help developing countries that are cutting
corners with cleaner technologies and by providing tax exemptions
for companies that develop such technologies.

Now go take a Valium and try to be polite next time.

Too bad you are not a gentleman Rob. You would see that
there is more to the argument that one side. I believe that
we should take reasonable measures to protect the environment
I just don't agree with all the BS associated with your liberal
views on how it is caused.


Study the Little Ice Age and consider all the ramifications.
Ask also what was the period just before the Little Ice Age like?
Warm eh? Very warm? With bountiful crops? How could that be?




Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now. Did you even read the
Oregon Petition. They mostly agree on global warming. The concensus is
in question, but the VAST MAJORITY of scientists and scientific
institutions know what's happening because the last 3 years of data is
beyond question. Of course some of those very same doubting scientists
claimed that the Alaskan shelf would not melt in 100 years. Gee
wiz...a big unk of it went in 4 years.
Only a simpleton applies polictical parties and agenda's to an obvious
problem like this. Meanwhile, doesn't toss you a clue when a petition
is signed and the names are not questioned? You couldn't have done
more than a minutes worth of googling or you might have discovered
that. But of course, believing in some sort of "liberal ,movement"
that will injure our dumb auto builders is all you really care about.
Fortunately there are many people like me who can actually read and
comprehend and understand a geological time table. It's so insane.
Most scientists agreed on those tables and data...until they indicated
we were in an unatural man made phase of atmospheric disturbance. So
what kind of person is will to rework accepted truths to suit a
political agenda? What kind of person dismisses truth because he
doesn't care for the messengers? History is repleat with these
lowlifes and Bart is of the same cloth.
Global warming is real, folks. Virtually every scientific organization
agrees on that. They also agree that nothing in the known geological
timetable hints at such an abrubt change, except for those dealt by
planetary impacts. So what's left? 100 years of pouring soot into our
air, chemstry into the oceans and grime on the ice. The Earth is big,
but it's not immune to such an attack and we're seeing that now.
The bottom line is that we'll see the truth very soon. But just like
Iraq, there will always be those who refuse to see the obvious.

There were no WMD's, Bart.
Bin Laden is still free.
We still have meager forces in Iraq, and that was the case even when there was support for the war. Why?
Bush based his war on photos shown on TV that were between 8-12 years old, though more recent pics existed to refute the evidence.
There is video of Bush, Condoliza and so on laughing at the idea of Iraq as a US threat, taken after 9/11.
Most scientists agree that global warming is real and that it's not part of a natural cycle. A few small groups that were on the fence have since come to agree on the issue including 1/3 of those from the Oregon Petition who actually had credentials.
You will never wake up because you view the world as liberals/republicans/democrats and so on. You don't even know that those words are used to manipulate you and have long since lost their true meanings. That's why any true republican, who knows what the party stands for, is against Bush, who has virtually NO republican values. But there are always a dopey group of Americans willing to buy anything if it says MADE IN THE USA stamped on the box.

I can't help you, Bart. Probably no one can. If the shelfs melt and
sea levels kill millions, who will you blame? Clinton? The Liberals?
Naturally all efforts will go into trying to afix blame rather than
dealing with the problem head on, and you'll be top of the class.
Finally, there is a big difference between acting like a gentleman and
actually being one. You have no idea what that difference is since you
continue to spout uneducated and unsolicted politican and psuedo
scientic nonsense here.
And that's why I'm truly a gentleman, Bart. That's why I have
everything you don't. I have a beautiful wife and son....great
friends, a new home and lakefront land, two new cars, a nice boat that
actually sailed today and isn't being refit to the end of time and so
on.
And all you have is a bitterness towards imaginary liberals who are
trying to save the spotted Owl and bring down General Motors. The
problem is not the Owl, Bart. It's Americans like you who have no
vision or sense of world responsibility. Greedy Americans who not only
have a international "us or them" mentality, but one for their fellow
Americans as well.
Bart, you're the absolute bottom filth of the worst imaginable type of
American. Even a serial killer has insanity in his defense. You have
only ingnorance fueled by bigotry and conservative mania.
And that's no defense at all.

Shame on you.



RB
35s5
NY

Capt. Rob wrote:
Too bad you are not a gentleman Rob. You would see that
there is more to the argument that one side. I believe that
we should take reasonable measures to protect the environment
I just don't agree with all the BS associated with your liberal
views on how it is caused.


Study the Little Ice Age and consider all the ramifications.
Ask also what was the period just before the Little Ice Age like?
Warm eh? Very warm? With bountiful crops? How could that be?



Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now.


Not only is there geological history that indicates we are in a typical
GW cycle, but some of those previous cycles are worse than what we're
observing in this one.



Did you even read the
Oregon Petition. They mostly agree on global warming. The concensus is
in question, but the VAST MAJORITY of scientists and scientific
institutions know what's happening because the last 3 years of data is
beyond question. Of course some of those very same doubting scientists
claimed that the Alaskan shelf would not melt in 100 years. Gee
wiz...a big unk of it went in 4 years.
Only a simpleton applies polictical parties and agenda's to an obvious
problem like this. Meanwhile, doesn't toss you a clue when a petition
is signed and the names are not questioned? You couldn't have done
more than a minutes worth of googling or you might have discovered
that. But of course, believing in some sort of "liberal ,movement"
that will injure our dumb auto builders is all you really care about.
Fortunately there are many people like me who can actually read and
comprehend and understand a geological time table. It's so insane.
Most scientists agreed on those tables and data...until they indicated
we were in an unatural man made phase of atmospheric disturbance. So
what kind of person is will to rework accepted truths to suit a
political agenda? What kind of person dismisses truth because he
doesn't care for the messengers? History is repleat with these
lowlifes and Bart is of the same cloth.
Global warming is real, folks. Virtually every scientific organization
agrees on that. They also agree that nothing in the known geological
timetable hints at such an abrubt change, except for those dealt by
planetary impacts. So what's left? 100 years of pouring soot into our
air, chemstry into the oceans and grime on the ice. The Earth is big,
but it's not immune to such an attack and we're seeing that now.
The bottom line is that we'll see the truth very soon. But just like
Iraq, there will always be those who refuse to see the obvious.

There were no WMD's, Bart.
Bin Laden is still free.
We still have meager forces in Iraq, and that was the case even when there was support for the war. Why?
Bush based his war on photos shown on TV that were between 8-12 years old, though more recent pics existed to refute the evidence.
There is video of Bush, Condoliza and so on laughing at the idea of Iraq as a US threat, taken after 9/11.
Most scientists agree that global warming is real and that it's not part of a natural cycle. A few small groups that were on the fence have since come to agree on the issue including 1/3 of those from the Oregon Petition who actually had credentials.
You will never wake up because you view the world as liberals/republicans/democrats and so on. You don't even know that those words are used to manipulate you and have long since lost their true meanings. That's why any true republican, who knows what the party stands for, is against Bush, who has virtually NO republican values. But there are always a dopey group of Americans willing to buy anything if it says MADE IN THE USA stamped on the box.

I can't help you, Bart. Probably no one can. If the shelfs melt and
sea levels kill millions, who will you blame? Clinton? The Liberals?
Naturally all efforts will go into trying to afix blame rather than
dealing with the problem head on, and you'll be top of the class.
Finally, there is a big difference between acting like a gentleman and
actually being one. You have no idea what that difference is since you
continue to spout uneducated and unsolicted politican and psuedo
scientic nonsense here.
And that's why I'm truly a gentleman, Bart. That's why I have
everything you don't. I have a beautiful wife and son....great
friends, a new home and lakefront land, two new cars, a nice boat that
actually sailed today and isn't being refit to the end of time and so
on.
And all you have is a bitterness towards imaginary liberals who are
trying to save the spotted Owl and bring down General Motors. The
problem is not the Owl, Bart. It's Americans like you who have no
vision or sense of world responsibility. Greedy Americans who not only
have a international "us or them" mentality, but one for their fellow
Americans as well.
Bart, you're the absolute bottom filth of the worst imaginable type of
American. Even a serial killer has insanity in his defense. You have
only ingnorance fueled by bigotry and conservative mania.
And that's no defense at all.

Shame on you.



RB
35s5
NY


Those personal attacks are becoming so typical of those that refuse to
view both sides on an issue.

Its all about following the money. Create a panic and then profit from
it.

"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now.


Not only is there geological history that indicates we are in a typical GW
cycle, but some of those previous cycles are worse than what we're
observing in this one.

Very true. Bubbles is typical of those who myopically choose to see only
one side of an issue, failing completely to examine the facts which might
dispute their contention.

My take on global warming: The ardent environmentalists, of which I
consider myself one of the most ardent, have had little or no success in
passing measures, either legislatively or economically, which will
effectively begin to clean up the planet's air, water, and land. Neither
have they/we been successful in just mitigating the expansion of pollution,
let alone reducing it. Subsequently the most radical environmentalists have
contrived a plan to get everyone's attention: global warming. It is little
more than a scare tactic to attempt to frighten a world populace into
adopting some clean and green practices. But it has been a failure, and
will be forgotten soon, much the same as the aluminum cookware/cancer scare
of the 1960s. The GW movement has gotten a lot of folks on board--mostly
those who want to believe, as opposed to those who can be convinced by hard
science and an examination of both sides of the issue--but even they will
eventually put their vigorous, evangelistic dogma aside for lack of
substantive evidence. Thirty years from now, GW will be something people
chuckle about--just another chapter in the humor of human existence.

You might claim I'm not an environmentalist at all because I'm not on board
with the whole GW thing. Not true. I believe that cleaning up the planet
and reducing the levels of pollution are paramount for a future environment
that will be conducive to a healthy human existence. But the evidence
*against* GW is at least as substantial as that *for* it, and to turn a
blind eye toward it is a fool's errand. The human race may, indeed, be
responsible for some component of the warming of the planet, but the degree
of that contribution is unknown, and the significance of it cannot be
accurately predicted at this time. Until we have better data, I see no
reason to jump on the GW bandwagon. Show me the money . . . er, evidence,
and I'll be among GW's most outspoken. Until then, I'm more than just a
little ****ed at the distraction that the GW folks have created, taking the
impetus away from the known and quantifiable aspects of global pollution.
I'll continue to work for cleaner air, water, and land. The sooner we get
past this GW phenomenon and get back to the real business of cleaning up the
planet, the better.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now.

Not only is there geological history that indicates we are in a typical GW
cycle, but some of those previous cycles are worse than what we're
observing in this one.

Very true. Bubbles is typical of those who myopically choose to see only
one side of an issue, failing completely to examine the facts which might
dispute their contention.

My take on global warming: The ardent environmentalists, of which I
consider myself one of the most ardent, have had little or no success in
passing measures, either legislatively or economically, which will
effectively begin to clean up the planet's air, water, and land. Neither
have they/we been successful in just mitigating the expansion of pollution,
let alone reducing it. Subsequently the most radical environmentalists have
contrived a plan to get everyone's attention: global warming. It is little
more than a scare tactic to attempt to frighten a world populace into
adopting some clean and green practices. But it has been a failure, and
will be forgotten soon, much the same as the aluminum cookware/cancer scare
of the 1960s. The GW movement has gotten a lot of folks on board--mostly
those who want to believe, as opposed to those who can be convinced by hard
science and an examination of both sides of the issue--but even they will
eventually put their vigorous, evangelistic dogma aside for lack of
substantive evidence. Thirty years from now, GW will be something people
chuckle about--just another chapter in the humor of human existence.

You might claim I'm not an environmentalist at all because I'm not on board
with the whole GW thing. Not true. I believe that cleaning up the planet
and reducing the levels of pollution are paramount for a future environment
that will be conducive to a healthy human existence. But the evidence
*against* GW is at least as substantial as that *for* it, and to turn a
blind eye toward it is a fool's errand. The human race may, indeed, be
responsible for some component of the warming of the planet, but the degree
of that contribution is unknown, and the significance of it cannot be
accurately predicted at this time. Until we have better data, I see no
reason to jump on the GW bandwagon. Show me the money . . . er, evidence,
and I'll be among GW's most outspoken. Until then, I'm more than just a
little ****ed at the distraction that the GW folks have created, taking the
impetus away from the known and quantifiable aspects of global pollution.
I'll continue to work for cleaner air, water, and land. The sooner we get
past this GW phenomenon and get back to the real business of cleaning up the
planet, the better.

Max

Well said. I've been in the same camp for years.

"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now.

Not only is there geological history that indicates we are in a typical
GW cycle, but some of those previous cycles are worse than what we're
observing in this one.

Very true. Bubbles is typical of those who myopically choose to see only
one side of an issue, failing completely to examine the facts which might
dispute their contention.

My take on global warming: The ardent environmentalists, of which I
consider myself one of the most ardent, have had little or no success in
passing measures, either legislatively or economically, which will
effectively begin to clean up the planet's air, water, and land. Neither
have they/we been successful in just mitigating the expansion of
pollution, let alone reducing it. Subsequently the most radical
environmentalists have contrived a plan to get everyone's attention:
global warming. It is little more than a scare tactic to attempt to
frighten a world populace into adopting some clean and green practices.
But it has been a failure, and will be forgotten soon, much the same as
the aluminum cookware/cancer scare of the 1960s. The GW movement has
gotten a lot of folks on board--mostly those who want to believe, as
opposed to those who can be convinced by hard science and an examination
of both sides of the issue--but even they will eventually put their
vigorous, evangelistic dogma aside for lack of substantive evidence.
Thirty years from now, GW will be something people chuckle about--just
another chapter in the humor of human existence.

You might claim I'm not an environmentalist at all because I'm not on
board with the whole GW thing. Not true. I believe that cleaning up the
planet and reducing the levels of pollution are paramount for a future
environment that will be conducive to a healthy human existence. But the
evidence *against* GW is at least as substantial as that *for* it, and to
turn a blind eye toward it is a fool's errand. The human race may,
indeed, be responsible for some component of the warming of the planet,
but the degree of that contribution is unknown, and the significance of
it cannot be accurately predicted at this time. Until we have better
data, I see no reason to jump on the GW bandwagon. Show me the money . .
. er, evidence, and I'll be among GW's most outspoken. Until then, I'm
more than just a little ****ed at the distraction that the GW folks have
created, taking the impetus away from the known and quantifiable aspects
of global pollution. I'll continue to work for cleaner air, water, and
land. The sooner we get past this GW phenomenon and get back to the real
business of cleaning up the planet, the better.

Max

Well said. I've been in the same camp for years.

Do you own a Cessna 310? One of my favorite airplanes. I've got about 400
hours in type.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
"Cessna 310" wrote in message
...
Capt. Rob wrote:
Like I said, SAD. There is nothing in our geological history that
comes close to the changes we are seeing now.
Not only is there geological history that indicates we are in a typical
GW cycle, but some of those previous cycles are worse than what we're
observing in this one.
Very true. Bubbles is typical of those who myopically choose to see only
one side of an issue, failing completely to examine the facts which might
dispute their contention.

My take on global warming: The ardent environmentalists, of which I
consider myself one of the most ardent, have had little or no success in
passing measures, either legislatively or economically, which will
effectively begin to clean up the planet's air, water, and land. Neither
have they/we been successful in just mitigating the expansion of
pollution, let alone reducing it. Subsequently the most radical
environmentalists have contrived a plan to get everyone's attention:
global warming. It is little more than a scare tactic to attempt to
frighten a world populace into adopting some clean and green practices.
But it has been a failure, and will be forgotten soon, much the same as
the aluminum cookware/cancer scare of the 1960s. The GW movement has
gotten a lot of folks on board--mostly those who want to believe, as
opposed to those who can be convinced by hard science and an examination
of both sides of the issue--but even they will eventually put their
vigorous, evangelistic dogma aside for lack of substantive evidence.
Thirty years from now, GW will be something people chuckle about--just
another chapter in the humor of human existence.

You might claim I'm not an environmentalist at all because I'm not on
board with the whole GW thing. Not true. I believe that cleaning up the
planet and reducing the levels of pollution are paramount for a future
environment that will be conducive to a healthy human existence. But the
evidence *against* GW is at least as substantial as that *for* it, and to
turn a blind eye toward it is a fool's errand. The human race may,
indeed, be responsible for some component of the warming of the planet,
but the degree of that contribution is unknown, and the significance of
it cannot be accurately predicted at this time. Until we have better
data, I see no reason to jump on the GW bandwagon. Show me the money . .
. er, evidence, and I'll be among GW's most outspoken. Until then, I'm
more than just a little ****ed at the distraction that the GW folks have
created, taking the impetus away from the known and quantifiable aspects
of global pollution. I'll continue to work for cleaner air, water, and
land. The sooner we get past this GW phenomenon and get back to the real
business of cleaning up the planet, the better.

Max
Well said. I've been in the same camp for years.

Do you own a Cessna 310? One of my favorite airplanes. I've got about 400
hours in type.

Max



Flew one in corporate charter for years. Great plane. Got about 3000
in type, 4500tt. Still my fav.