New Discoveries?
 

* Dave wrote, On 3/28/2007 2:22 PM:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 13:24:05 -0400, Jeff said:

The record is real clear, Clinton made welfare reform part of his 1992
platform.

For those who don't believe the world began with the Johnny-come-lately in
1992, let me recommend
http://www.ashbrook.org/publicat/ope...99/gipper.html

Or if you don't like a single source, a quick Google search of Reagan and
"welfare reform."

So, you're claiming that Reagan wanted welfare reform but Clinton
actually did it?

Next, you'll be claiming the GOP wanted a balanced budget, but only
Clinton could make it happen.

New Discoveries?
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 28 Mar 2007 12:08:58 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz) said:

Some... looks like Clinton did the right thing, even though he angered
some left-leaning groups.

He had a good sense of which way the wind was blowing.

Is that a bad thing?


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

New Discoveries?
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:32:56 -0400, Jeff said:

So, you're claiming that Reagan wanted welfare reform but Clinton
actually did it?

Please don't play the "you're claiming" game, Jeff. It's childish and
reminds me of Jon's silly games. My posts have been quite precise on the
point. To repeat, "he finally was dragged to what the Republicans had been
pushing for years before."

Do my "silly games" include pointing out that Rove and Cheney leakd
the name of an active, undercover CIA agent, which is a Federal crime?


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

New Discoveries?
 

* Dave wrote, On 3/28/2007 4:52 PM:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:32:56 -0400, Jeff said:

So, you're claiming that Reagan wanted welfare reform but Clinton
actually did it?

Please don't play the "you're claiming" game, Jeff.

What game is that? Are you making a claim or not? I say you're
making a claim, but it simply isn't supported by the facts. Realizing
that you're wrong, you revert to silly attacks. That's the type of
"game" you play.

It's childish and
reminds me of Jon's silly games. My posts have been quite precise on the
point. To repeat, "he finally was dragged to what the Republicans had been
pushing for years before."


You're the one "playing games" Dave. Clinton made a major campaign
pledge, and then made good on it, even though major elements of his
own party were against it. Rather than giving credit where credit is
due, you have to characterize it as being "dragged." Reagan and Bush
Sr may have talked about it, Newt tried to get his version in, but it
was Clinton that won the day, pure and simple. Bill wasn't "dragged,"
Newt was embarrassed.

The simple truth is that the Democratic Party has become the
mainstream party that actually gets things done, like welfare reform
and a balanced budget. The Republican Party can only win by scaring
the uninformed with bogus issues like gay marriage. They dropped the
ball on protecting the country, they wasted American lives in a
foolish war, and time after time have shown themselves to be
thoroughly incompetent. Bush's presidency will go down as the worst
disaster for America since the Great Depression.

New Discoveries?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:10:33 GMT, Charlie Morgan said:

elected Bill Clinton

In what year?

and a REPUBLICAN congress.

In what year?

As I said, the Republicans dragged him kicking and screaming after
throwing
out the previous majority in Congress. I'll credit Clinton with being
sensitive to the way the wind was blowing, however. He figured out
that
Hillarycare was going nowhere, wetted his finger and put it to the
wind, and
turned in the direction it indicated.

Sure it was his finger? And I recall it was some intern name of Monica
who wetted it . . .

Wilbur Hubbard

New Discoveries?
 

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Wed, 28 Mar 2007 22:10:33 GMT, Charlie Morgan said:

elected Bill Clinton

In what year?

and a REPUBLICAN congress.

In what year?

As I said, the Republicans dragged him kicking and screaming after throwing
out the previous majority in Congress. I'll credit Clinton with being
sensitive to the way the wind was blowing, however. He figured out that
Hillarycare was going nowhere, wetted his finger and put it to the wind, and
turned in the direction it indicated.

You said it, but that doesn't make it a fact. You should give Clinton
credit for listening to what voters wanted and actually doing
something. Maybe Bush should take a listen.


--
Capt. JG @@
www.sailnow.com

New Discoveries?
 

On 28 Mar 2007 11:20:52 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 17:35:46 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

I had to join the union. It was a completely different job function. I
forget the name of it... National something in San Diego.

Jon, I can remember the name of every organization I've worked for
going back fifty years. What's the problem?

I looked it up... National Pen... I had lots of jobs in college. g

It is unusual for a factory in a forced union state like California,
to have very low end and low paid jobs that are outside the bargaining
unit. Being involved in the collective bargaining process for many
years, I'm just trying to understand how that could happen.

I have no idea. That's the way it was. I actually tried to organize
the envelop stuffers and pen stampers at one point... looked up the
procedure in the library, then started calling established unions when
I realized how difficult it would be. Mostly, they weren't
interested. The company had a lot of non-English speakers... probably
illegals... who knows. Anyway, the company found out someone was doing
this and went around saying they were going to give people lie
detector tests. Most of the "American" workers told them to f*ck off,
so it didn't go anywhere.

This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

I understand you had to join the Union. California is not a right to
work state.

Yah... nice job actually. Fun except for the ink smell.

Point is not moot. Point, stated one more time is that you can move
on or move up from any job. The key is to take one in the first
place, work well, and build on it, either with that organization
within the capacity for promotion or with the next one. Anyone can do
that if they "choose" to do so.

Ah, but sometimes, in fact most of the time, at a minimum wage job
that's just not possible. Anyone cannot do it if they choose anymore
than I can fly a kite in the midddle of a busy street... g

"Most of the time" ?, Give me some facts to back up another statement
grabbed from the air.

I went back to visit Steve D., the manager at my below minimum wage
job from time to time, as I said, had a great deal of respect for him.
All my co-workers gone. All moved on to bigger and better things.
Steve used to keep up with most of his ex-employees for a while.

My sons all worked entry level jobs, (not minimum, as stated minimum
is rarely paid in the poorest state in the nation, moreover, it is
rarely paid anywhere), they've moved on and up as have their
coworkers.

Now I realize, being well versed in statistics when I was a quality
manager, these events do not make a statistically relevant sample.
You, however, have offered nothing but your opinion as usual.

That's what the subject was about, do you remember.

Nope.

Nope, completely lucid. You make constant reference in your posts to
Bush being the direct cause to everything bad in the world. The
conclusion that can be drawn is that you hate him like most liberals
do. I'm just trying to find out if you know something specific that
links him directly to a centuries old problem of people who lack the
individual iniative or personal responsibility to support themselves.
People who are able, but make a choice not to work.

Everything bad? No. Just a major attempt at the ruination of this
great country.

That is the topic. I'm not talking about those who cannot because of
some mental or physical issue, just those who choose not to prepare
themselves or who refuse to take a job.

And, I'm saying that is a very small minority of those who do minimum
wage jobs.

Once again, you made the claim, so back it up. Let's have the facts.

Just did.
No facts given. Where are they. Go back and read it again. Do you
just hate Bush or do you have some facts that link him as a cause of
an age old problem of people who do not want to work or prepare
themselves to work. BE SPECIFIC!!!!!

New Discoveries?
 

UNIONS SUCK !


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 28 Mar 2007 11:20:52 -0700, lid
(Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 17:35:46 -0700, lid
(Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

I had to join the union. It was a completely different
job function. I
forget the name of it... National something in San
Diego.

Jon, I can remember the name of every organization I've
worked for
going back fifty years. What's the problem?

I looked it up... National Pen... I had lots of jobs in
college. g

It is unusual for a factory in a forced union state like
California,
to have very low end and low paid jobs that are outside
the bargaining
unit. Being involved in the collective bargaining
process for many
years, I'm just trying to understand how that could
happen.

I have no idea. That's the way it was. I actually tried
to organize
the envelop stuffers and pen stampers at one point...
looked up the
procedure in the library, then started calling
established unions when
I realized how difficult it would be. Mostly, they
weren't
interested. The company had a lot of non-English
speakers... probably
illegals... who knows. Anyway, the company found out
someone was doing
this and went around saying they were going to give
people lie
detector tests. Most of the "American" workers told them
to f*ck off,
so it didn't go anywhere.

This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a
wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed
over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this.
Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think
this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in
the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say
is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

I understand you had to join the Union. California is
not a right to
work state.

Yah... nice job actually. Fun except for the ink smell.

Point is not moot. Point, stated one more time is that
you can move
on or move up from any job. The key is to take one in
the first
place, work well, and build on it, either with that
organization
within the capacity for promotion or with the next one.
Anyone can do
that if they "choose" to do so.

Ah, but sometimes, in fact most of the time, at a minimum
wage job
that's just not possible. Anyone cannot do it if they
choose anymore
than I can fly a kite in the midddle of a busy street...
g

"Most of the time" ?, Give me some facts to back up
another statement
grabbed from the air.

I went back to visit Steve D., the manager at my below
minimum wage
job from time to time, as I said, had a great deal of
respect for him.
All my co-workers gone. All moved on to bigger and better
things.
Steve used to keep up with most of his ex-employees for a
while.

My sons all worked entry level jobs, (not minimum, as
stated minimum
is rarely paid in the poorest state in the nation,
moreover, it is
rarely paid anywhere), they've moved on and up as have
their
coworkers.

Now I realize, being well versed in statistics when I was
a quality
manager, these events do not make a statistically relevant
sample.
You, however, have offered nothing but your opinion as
usual.

New Discoveries?
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

That certainly seems right, but I don't know anything beyond my experience.
76/77 seems about right. They had terrible management. I was originally
running a paper folding machine... huge beast on which I was originally very
poorly trained because they didn't want to take someone off one for very
long to train me. I got pretty good at it... to the point of being able to
climb off the small ladder and have a seat while listening to the rhythmic
beat of the machine. When it started to get out of sync, I'd get busy. One
time some guy in a suit came by while I was sitting and started bitching at
me for sitting. I told him to f*ck off, so he got all in a huff and walked
off, saying he was going to have me fired. Apparently he was a senior VP or
something (fat jerk). But, that was the one time (literally) when the forman
told him to stuff it, as the other two operators were either on sick or had
quit. Eventually, I had to take them to the labor relations board to get my
last few paychecks. They kept saying the "check was in the mail" after I
finally quit, but never did send it.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

New Discoveries?
 

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
UNIONS SUCK !



I've been a member of a couple of them... depends on your perspective I
guess. They were always pretty good to me.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com