"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Try reading Das Kapital and get back to us.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Gilligan" wrote in message
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"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Why is it not considered greedy to get other people to work and take
profit from their labor? Is that not a tax upon the laborers?


Gilligan wrote:
Because getting other people to work and organizing their labor is work
and value added.

In other words, "leadership" and "initiative" are themselves valuable
commodities.


I don't view labor as a commodity. But leadership, iniative and risk
taking does have value.



It is not a tax because the laborers agree to a wage and are paid that.



In cases where the laborers agree, sure.
What about cases where the laborer is coerced, or given false
information about the terms of his employment?


Deception is a form of force as is coercion. It is then theft. You call
it tax. I say taxation is theft, but not all theft is taxation.







I am poor. I earn less than minimum wage. I think progressive taxation
is punitive.


Well then, are you in favor of regressive taxation?

I'm in favor of no taxes. I'm in favor of simple, direct fees -
preferable paying for only the gov't services you use. Buy contract
insurance from the gov't to pay for courts, etc. For the military,
criminal courts, police and such charge every citizen of voting age and
above a flat annual fee. The same for everyone regardless of income. Do
not tax businesses. Keep government small and essential.






Just think of it as hush money to keep the starving masses from
becoming so enraged at their lot in life (as compared to yours) that
they riot and burn your house down.



One can use the same argument for owning assualt rifles.


One can, except it would take a very callous and foolish rich person to
think that he is going to keep a determined crowd of rioters away, in
the event of serious class warfare. For one thing, they'll be armed too.
For another, there will be more of them than the rich person has
bullets.

There's a natural incentive for the wealthy not to have the poor riot.


I think we should bring back the custom of rich people hiring bands of
armed retainers. Livery and maintenance! Feudalism rules!

It already exists under our allodial system.




It's true that lots of fools are rich, but it's not true that *every*
fool is. If we are going to appeal to logic, then let's use accurate
logic.



I said any fool can go out and earn tons of money. I did not say all
fools go out and earn tons of money.


Nor are all rich people foolish.

True. Actually the wealthy tend to be quite smart. Poor is not
fundamentally an economic condition, it is a mental condition for most.


DSK






I've read a good portion of it. 2 semesters of Marx/Engels as an undergrad.

My argument about organizing, allocating capital and labor and assuming risk
as having value exposes the flaw of Marx's central thesis in Das Kapital.
The "profit" is the market value of the capitalists work. Even more
fundamental is Marx's assertion that labor and capital work against each
other. I do not suscribe to that malevolent view at all. People individually
and voluntarily enter into contracts with each other. Both sides must agree
to terms. Marx's views best describe the workings of labor unions which are
self defeating and exist only by force/government legislation.