Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

and you don't
know whether the boat(s) you claim to sail are frac or
masthead, you get caught lying about the weather, etc etc.



"Capt" Rob wrote:
Hey, Dummy! Didn't you even know that the H43 is a B&G rig?

I don't know what a "B&G rig" is. However, I do know what a
B&R rig is.



.... I'm NOT sailing the boat, dummy.

Good. That seems entirely appropriate for your knowledge &
skill level.

DSK

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

RB......the greatest troll who ever lived!


Trollus magnus!

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Gilligan wrote:

RB......the greatest troll who ever lived!


Trollus magnus!


Is he the same one that was in "Billy Goats Gruff"?

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
You're claiming now that whenever you say "upwind" you might mean
"ever so slightly higher than a beam reach" and when you say


No, Jeff. Never said. All I'm saying is that you've made an arse of
yourself after I simply stated VMG upwind, which you ASSUMED must be
beating.

I would say that 99% of the boating community would say that VMG to
windward implies beating, although it can be an instantaneous measure,
it doesn't actually mean you're tacking back and forth. Nor does it
mean you're at the optimal upwind angle. You could be on a beam reach
or even going downwind, and your "VMG to windward" could still be
measured.

I'm not sure which is more embarrassing for you....

I'm only embarrassed for you ... especially since you keep digging the
hole deeper, revealing that you have learned nothing about sailing.


1) Raging over our VMG without knowing our specific POS and conditions.

Point of sail is irrelevant. When you say "to windward at just over 6
knots VMG" you are saying something very specific and well understood
by any experienced sailor.

2) Not really knowing what upwind means.

I know exactly what it means. Its quite clear to everyone that you do
not know what "VMG to windward" means.

3) Falling into your own bucket of crap and calling me names.

You mean the "pathological liar" comment? You've claimed a number of
times that you lie deliberately. In fact, you seem to take great
pride in your elaborate lies. Are you now lying when you claim you're
not a liar?


Your own fault, Jeff. We went sailing. You stayed home. Same thing
happens today...but then I miss tomorrow cuz' Suzanne's working.
You sound like one seriously unhappy fella!

I didn't stay home, actually I was out on a friend's boat.

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
"to windward at just over 6 knots VMG." That means only one
thing to a sailor.



Uh...Jeff. I don't know any sailors so stupid as to think "windward"
means as far upwind as possible...or even optimal. Windard means quite
a bit more than that and different things for different boats in
different conditions.

Totally irrelevant. You're just digging the hole deeper. You really
don't seem to understand the meaning of VMG to windward.

Lordy, you REALLY made an ARSE of yourself with this one.

Right - you show total ignorance of basic sailing terminology, and you
calling me an arse.

Here's the bottom line, Jeff. We WERE sailing upwind, probably not
higher that 40 (My shot sails won't allow it easily without fuss.

Are you still claiming you had a VMG to windward of 6 knots? To have
a VMG of 6 knots you would have to be doing almost 8 knots through the
water. If we add in a few degrees of leeway, it becomes about 8.4
knots to have a real VMG of 6 knots. As I've said, I don't have your
polars, but the Bene 407, a much faster boat, does about 6.8 knots at
optimal pointing (about 40 degrees). So are you claiming that you
were going a full knot and a half faster than a Beneteau 407???

The fact the you continue to defend your original statement with
claims of not being at the optimal point, and not having good sails
makes you sound even dumber! My point is that even at the optimal
point you couldn't have a VMG that high for any sustained period. You
defense is just absurd, and simply shows you have no knowledge of how
boats work.


Sorry, Jeff....you truly DID make an arse of yourself...and over
nothing.

Sure thing Bob, you demonstrate total ignorance about sailing,
essentially admitting that every claim you make about performance is
totally bogus, and you claim I made an arse of myself.

How about this: anytime you have a customer ask you about sailing, you
show them this exchange as a way of proving your credibility? See how
many buyers you have after that.

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Jeff wrote:
How about this: anytime you have a customer ask you about sailing, you
show them this exchange as a way of proving your credibility? See how
many buyers you have after that.


Then, ask them if they need a surveyor!
nyuk nyuk nyuk!

DSK

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

I would say that 99% of the boating community would say that VMG to
windward implies beating,


Total nonsense. Windward work is exactly that and does not always imply
beating. Beating implies beating or "hard on the wind." Windward is ANY
point of sail above a beam reach to use the term 100% correctly. If the
folks in your fartbutt county skewed to have a specific meaning that's
fine. But following both the rules of sailing and English, you're wrong
and I'm right. End of story.

You mean the "pathological liar" comment? You've claimed a number of
times that you lie deliberately. In fact, you seem to take great
pride in your elaborate lies.

Elaborate lie? There's a bloody video of my boat! Is it from ILM? Any
time I've lied I've later had great fun TELLING the dopes here that
they were lied to. Wait around and see if James Cameron admits to
creating images of my boat in low res to fool everyone!

I didn't stay home, actually I was out on a friend's boat.

If I owned your boat I'd be on a friends boat too.
You're a sad little man, Jeff. Sad indeed.


RB
35s5
NY

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Jeff wrote:

"Point of sail is irrelevant. "




Good night, Jeff!!!! You're TRULY a sad little man! Now tell us....is
my boat going to windward? Upwind? Or downwind in this 3rd clip???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CeJAK6Esq0A


RB
35s5
NY

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
I would say that 99% of the boating community would say that VMG to
windward implies beating,


Total nonsense. Windward work is exactly that and does not always imply
beating.

You really don't know anything about sailing, do you? Yes, if you're
on a close reach you're still making way to windward. However, your
VMG to windward will be **** poor, unless your speed increases a huge
amount.

Beating implies beating or "hard on the wind." Windward is ANY
point of sail above a beam reach to use the term 100% correctly. If the
folks in your fartbutt county skewed to have a specific meaning that's
fine. But following both the rules of sailing and English, you're wrong
and I'm right. End of story.

Sorry, it would appear that you still don't understand. Let me try to
explain. I'll try to use small words, but unfortunately it does
require some 8th grade math. "VMG to windward" is the Velocity Made
Good to a point directly upwind. It isn't your speed through the
water or your speed over ground. It represents the average speed you
would have on a beat to a mark directly upwind. A simple way to
calculate it is to take your angle to the true wind, add about 4
degrees for leeway, take the cosine of that, and multiply by the speed
through the water. The result is typically about 70% of boat speed
for a beat, but of course varies a lot with the boat and conditions.

VMG to windward can be determined for any heading, but for a given
condition there will generally be one optimal angle and implied best
speed for going to windward. However, a performance table will list
the VMG for all headings, zero at 90 degrees and negative numbers for
downwind. In all cases, this is the "VMG to windward."

Sorry, Bob, you may think the racers and designers (as well as many
cruisers) who prefer to use boating terminology properly as
"fartbutts" but this is just one more example of you making a real
jackass of yourself.

Heart of Gold clip to windward
 

Capt. Rob wrote:
Jeff wrote:

"Point of sail is irrelevant. "

Good night, Jeff!!!! You're TRULY a sad little man! Now tell us....is
my boat going to windward? Upwind? Or downwind in this 3rd clip???

http://youtube.com/watch?v=CeJAK6Esq0A

Its hard to tell from that clip. Hopefully, you're not beating to
windward, though given your lack of understanding its not clear you
know what that means. However, one can't tell for sure where the wind
is or whether the sails are trimmed correctly, etc. And, while it
would appear that the sails are trimmed for a close reach according to
the apparent wind, one can't tell, without knowing the real
characteristics of your boat, if you're actually on a beam reach to
the true wind, or even going downwind. Too many unknowns.

But again, this is all irrelevant. One doesn't have to see a picture
to know that its very unlikely that any 35s5 attained a VMG to
windward of 6 knots. Especially with older sails and without a race
crew. The best you could hope for in any conditions is probably
closer to 5 knots. If fact, that the essence of the whole discussion:
the VMG to windward of your boat simply never gets up to 6 knots.
That's why the point of sail is irrelevant!