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#11
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
"Bart" wrote in message oups.com.. .. This work never seems to end, but I feel like I'm on the home stretch. Do you have a target date for launching? SBV |
#12
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
Interesting thread. Thanks.
RB 35s5 NY |
#13
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
Bart wrote:
I like your logic Jeff. My opinion also. The danger of going too small is not a happy one, while going too big is not a terrible penalty. Well, it costs more money, plus loss of space in the boat & added weight. It's a case of "more is better" (up to a degree). Jeff wrote: One thing I forgot to mention is that the number presumes a reasonable prop - one that's about 55% efficient. If you use a 2 blade folder, you might think you're underpowered. Yes but with a too-small or ineffective prop, more horsepower isn't going to do much good, it's only going to make bubbles & waste fuel. .... Mine work OK, but given my light weight (10K lbs) and slippery hulls (11:1 length to beam) I really expected to be able to power over 10 knots, but 8.5 is the practical limit. Wouldn't have expected that... is that full RPMs? Do you think it's the props? Also, while I think you have enough juice for your needs, I don't think you will be overpowered. If you were using it as a motorsailer, and expecting to exceed hull speed even when fighting a headwind, you'd want 100 hp or more. And you'd probably be swinging a 4 blade prop, although you can make a good case for a big variable pitch prop on a motorsailer. Yes, that would be the way to go. As for horsepower, we have become lazy & spoiled... most boats could do quite well with far less than the owner think acceptable... and I mean sailboats, not the obscenely overpowered motor boats (for example, my own motorboat is overpowered by about 30%, which I would not call obscene but it's got one of the smallest engines I've ever heard of in a boat of it's type & size). Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
#14
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
DSK wrote: Yes, that would be the way to go. As for horsepower, we have become lazy & spoiled... most boats could do quite well with far less than the owner think acceptable... and I mean sailboats, not the obscenely overpowered motor boats (for example, my own motorboat is overpowered by about 30%, which I would not call obscene but it's got one of the smallest engines I've ever heard of in a boat of it's type & size). I don't know Doug. I think I'd call that obscene. |
#15
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
.... my own motorboat is overpowered by about 30%, which
I would not call obscene but it's got one of the smallest engines I've ever heard of in a boat of it's type & size). Bart wrote: I don't know Doug. I think I'd call that obscene. Well what about the same hull & same disp with twin 400s? Or those 16' sliver shaped bass boats with twin 225 outboards? I know of two sisterships of ours, one has the same engine & the owner grips that he wants twins & more power, the other has a 165 Perkins and the owner thinks the boat has "about" the right amount of power. I think it would do just fine with 90hp. A fellow I used to work with tried to earnestly convince me that his 17' runabout absolutely needed more than 150 HP in order to "plane properly." Oh well. DSK |
#16
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
I think you should take it out and put in a steam engine.
DSK wrote: .... my own motorboat is overpowered by about 30%, which I would not call obscene but it's got one of the smallest engines I've ever heard of in a boat of it's type & size). Bart wrote: I don't know Doug. I think I'd call that obscene. Well what about the same hull & same disp with twin 400s? Or those 16' sliver shaped bass boats with twin 225 outboards? I know of two sisterships of ours, one has the same engine & the owner grips that he wants twins & more power, the other has a 165 Perkins and the owner thinks the boat has "about" the right amount of power. I think it would do just fine with 90hp. |
#17
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
Bart wrote:
I think you should take it out and put in a steam engine. DSK wrote: .... my own motorboat is overpowered by about 30%, which I would not call obscene but it's got one of the smallest engines I've ever heard of in a boat of it's type & size). Bart wrote: I don't know Doug. I think I'd call that obscene. Well what about the same hull & same disp with twin 400s? Or those 16' sliver shaped bass boats with twin 225 outboards? I know of two sisterships of ours, one has the same engine & the owner grips that he wants twins & more power, the other has a 165 Perkins and the owner thinks the boat has "about" the right amount of power. I think it would do just fine with 90hp. There's not enough room in his engine room...and he would have to put a paddle wheel on back and then he wouldn't fit in his slip.... |
#18
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
Bart wrote:
I think you should take it out and put in a steam engine. That would suit me just fine. I am comfortable with technology on the level of shoveling coal. DSK |
#19
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
According to GPS I clocked ECHO powering at
8 knots+ @ 2500 rpm! It showed 9.4 knots! At one point--which I do not believe [GPS's can show erratic speeds at times]. However at that rpm it never dropped below 8.0 knots and was typically around 8.3 - 8.4 knots or more. At the time I was in the channel going against a very slight flood which I estimated at 0.0 knots to be conservative. Yanmar specs say this is a burn rate of 2 gal/hr for this rpm. Later at against a stronger adverse current in the Sound, the GPS showed a steady 6.3 to 6.4 knots. I'm guessing my speed to be ~ 7 knots @ 2000 rpm. I'll have to do some calculations to better estimate the current drift. Yanmar specs stated a burn rate of only .96 gal/hr at that rpm. If true then my expectations have been greatly exceeded. I thought I would have to throttle back for fuel economy. Well I can do that and still go fairly fast. Hull speed was about 3300 rpm although I would have to test more to be more accurate. It was throwing a pretty big double wake at this rpm. The extra rpm does not seem to give me much more speed for the extra throttle. Max rpm for the engine is 3800 rpm and max long term cruise is 3500 or 3600 rpm. I won't need to go that high unless perhaps I'm towing. I'm guessing my speed was around 8.5 knots at 3300 rpm. The engine was louder, and fuel consumption much higher I'm sure for only a small gain in speed. On the plus side, I felt like I had plenty of power in reserve. I will be able to motor along at lower rpm and conserve fuel while making good speed. Everyone aboard was impressed with the engine. I had doubts about the motor making this much power at such a low rpm. The large diameter, super efficient Flexofold prop seems to be the key. The smart choice is to pick the best prop for motoring in forward and reverse. Unlike feathering props the Flexofold has a very efficient shape for motoring--both forward and reverse. The folding feature gives it low drag under sail--of course anything is an improvement over a fixed three-blade prop. I'm happy with the choice. I could not have picked a better prop. http://www.flexofold.com This has been a great day. On par with the day I finished painting ECHO a few years ago. Next up are new fuel tanks and a larger rudder. Yanmar recommends running in the engine at high rpms during the break in period. So I was motoring faster than I would have normally heading out of the marina. On the humorous side, my transmission controls have been reversed from the original shifter directions--up for forward/down for reverse. Leaving at nearly dead low, I managed to run agound on a sand bar not listed on the chart. Which would have been no big deal, except my transmission controls were reversed. After shifting to neutral, I attempting to motor off. However, I shifted it back into forward by mistake, and made the situation worse. In time I'm sure I'll get used to the reversed controls. The combination of running a little faster than normal and mixing up forward and reverse combined to get me stuck pretty well. Believe it or not I actually winched myself off using my organ grinder! Frankly, I am flabbergasted that it worked! I ground in the winch on high gear as far as it would go and then switched to low gear and pulled myself off. The anchor was set so well I had a harder time recovering it than I did pulling myself off! In the past I'd thought about removing the organ grinder, but it has come in so handy, so many times. I can lead a line to it from any place on the boat. No matter how high a load a sail or line puts on it, a child could winch it in. Lessons Learned: Never to work to someone elses schedule. My crew was in a hurry to go home. I tried to accomodate him. It was a mistake. I should have stayed at the dock and found someone else. Looking back on several situations in the past eight years where I later regreted being in a hurry; in each case I was trying to accomodate crew's schedules or trying to stick to my own plan, and this got me into trouble. Sometimes plans need to be changed! Now that I have a reliable and efficient power plant, and a comfortable boat, I can do it all myself. Additionally, I am going to make a point to tell people that I am never on "a schedule". Schedules cause problems. Breaking a schedule makes many problems disappear. |
#20
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Four new thru-hulls = one happy man !
"Bart" wrote |I now have four new thru-hulls in ECHO, my Ericson | 46. Fortunately three are above the waterline! | My new Yanmar engine is completely installed, but | not yet tested or run in. | I now have two high volume bilge pumps, one above | the other, on brackets that I can pull up to service. | Formerly, I could not service my electric bilge pump | without removing the engine. | My old electric pump was T'd into a cockpit drain | --not the best set up. Each of the new pumps has | its own through hull with a substantial anti-siphon | loop, run with smooth hose for low friction. | I have a new larger raw water inlet to service the new | engine, and a much larger exhaust with two anti-siphon | loops and a flapper valve thru-hull. That is like wearing | a belt, suspenders, and tie wraps to hold your pants up. | That is confidence in a rough following sea. | The flapper valve was not planned but it was the only | through-hull available for that size exhaust hose. | I have a new SS strut, new cutlass bearing, new 20" Flexifold | prop, new SS shaft, dripless packing gland, a gorgeous new | engine bed made out of solid glass that adds to the structure | of the hull. It is holding a spotless new Yanmar 75 HP engine. | This is hooked up to a newly mounted engine panel that is | protected by a waterproof hatch at an easy to observe location | adjacent to the binacle. I have a second set of guages I plan | to hook up at the companionway adjacent to the engine. | I will have to cut part of my ignition key handle off if I want | to close the hatch covering the gauges in the cockpit--I can live | with that. I have some sort of engine alarm I need to mount that | --I'm thinking about using the hole for the old engine shut off--the | new engine has an electric fuel cutoff--very nice--no more | sticking plunger engine shut-offs. The throttle and transmission | cables are both new heavy duty cable. | Everything in the auxiliary propulsion system has been replaced | except the fuel tanks--that will happen in the next few months. | I'm replacing my two old 50 gallon tanks with new ones and | perhaps adding a third. I'll decide about that after I make the | bulkhead forward of the rudderpost into a watertight to a level | above the waterline. That is going to be difficult and means | hanging upside down to tab that in. And it means two more | bilge pumps. | Also removed were two not used for many years, capped fuel | tanks--the originals. These made space for a huge muffler | about five times bigger than the old one. And gave room for the | many runs of bilge pump hose. | I still have to figure out how I'm going to run 4" air hose for | engine space ventilation, and exactly how I'll configure the | sound insulation for the engine space. I'm debating ripping the | salon apart and reconfiguring the middle of the boat. | I still have a little work on my manual bilge pump. ECHO | originally had the manual pump near the helm and it was | later moved next to the shore power--bad idea. I plan to | move it back where it was before, using a better hand pump | with a removable handle. Everyone knows why it is better | to pump your bilge by hand when sailing on the ocean--right? | All this sounds like overkill I'm sure. But consider this, | a 46' sloop with a 3/4 keel and a "too-small" rudder, is not | an easy thing to dock under sail--I've done it in light winds | and would not want to do it in adverse conditions. ECHO | is a good performing boat, but I'll admit it is a dog in a | combination of light winds and big waves. A motor is not just | a nice thing to have in a boat this size--it is a necessity. If I | ever find myself short handed and want to get somewhere on | a schedule, it will be very nice to have a reliable motor. Ever go sailing? Ever think of getting a sailboat instead of a hull full of stuff that has nothing to do with sailing and takes all your time away from sailing? Lord a Goshen! Cheers, Ellen |
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