Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote in
|
| True trailor sailors like you will never encounter anything more
| dangerious than a wet butt rash but........ gory things happen at sea,
| and I rather talk about a 4" hauser parting and killing a sailor so
| perhaps it will instill the importance of never turning your back on a
| line under load. That may keep another person from such a preventable,
| but too common an accident.

True. And more welcome than political talk or motor talk. But seriously. That poor guy
probably wouldn't have time to get away even if he was looking right at the hawser when it
parted.

Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
path it may take if parting.
Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
saved them both.

Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
hit them.



| You can chat fantasy all day, and that makes since because you are
| your fantasy, have no boat, and never sail.

Chatting *fantasy* maybe could prepare you for real life, couldn't it. I do have a boat and I do sail.

Yeah, I was planning on rowing my sailboat backwards thru the
anchorage later today.

Joe





Cheers,
Ellen

"Joe" wrote
| Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
| path it may take if parting.
| Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
| saved them both.
| Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
| hit them.

Wouldn't it be better just to stay away or behind bulkheads.
They sure have some dumb safety rules. It'd make better sense to make a rule the nobody can watch
the line in the open. There needs to be strong bulkheads to protect seamen working near the hawser. They
need to be told to stay behind the bulkheads. It sounds like they're supposed to watch the hawser at all
times. Then they're supposed to see when it starts to snap. Then they're supposed to beat feet to cover.
Duh!
I can stretch a rubber band until it breaks. It snaps straight back. Just don't get in line with the
hawser and you're probably pretty safe.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote
| Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
| path it may take if parting.
| Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
| saved them both.
| Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
| hit them.

Wouldn't it be better just to stay away or behind bulkheads.

Yes, but work on deck may prevent that. In one case the guy was
watching cargo slide on deck after tieing the line that snapped.

We had headache rails on the boat to jump behind and be safe : Lika
so..

http://www.marcon.com/library/Sales_...005Sales/a.jpg

http://supplyboats.leefelterman.com/specs/osv116a.jpg

see the big rails along the deck side, between the deck and bulwarks?
Thats were you go when **** starts shifting, then you can turn and
look. See were the stern bits are? A line goes up to each corner of a
drilling platform and you set an anchor off your bow, you may be
offloading and loading cargo for days on end. You have to work the
deck, you can not hide all the time.

The second was a guy on a Fleet tug deck pulling on our ship to get
her away from the dock in a typhoon.
IIRC it was this tug : http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00P/graphics/Mday4.jpg

The guy was not in direct line when the 6" samson braid let go, he was
on the stern quarter of the deck I think heading to dis-engage the
brake as the line started to smoke.



They sure have some dumb safety rules. It'd make better sense to make a rule the nobody can watch
the line in the open. There needs to be strong bulkheads to protect seamen working near the hawser. They
need to be told to stay behind the bulkheads. It sounds like they're supposed to watch the hawser at all
times. Then they're supposed to see when it starts to snap. Then they're supposed to beat feet to cover.
Duh!
I can stretch a rubber band until it breaks. It snaps straight back. Just don't get in line with the
hawser and you're probably pretty safe.

Not so, the larger the hawser the wider path of danger , the way the
hawser parts, and it's braid, can make it go off at weird angles.

Joe


Cheers,
Ellen

"Joe" wrote
| Yes, but work on deck may prevent that. In one case the guy was
| watching cargo slide on deck after tieing the line that snapped.
| We had headache rails on the boat to jump behind and be safe : Lika
| so..
| http://www.marcon.com/library/Sales_...005Sales/a.jpg

That's a very little picture, Joe. I guess your talking about those things that look like blue walls.

| http://supplyboats.leefelterman.com/specs/osv116a.jpg
| see the big rails along the deck side, between the deck and bulwarks?

I see them.

| Thats were you go when **** starts shifting, then you can turn and
| look. See were the stern bits are?

I can't see the stern. It looks like the bow. Or did they put the pilot house right on the bow?
Maybe that's it. Most boats have the pilot house on the stern. Are those blue things sticking up the bits?

| A line goes up to each corner of a
| drilling platform and you set an anchor off your bow, you may be
| offloading and loading cargo for days on end. You have to work the
| deck, you can not hide all the time.

I thought a hawser was a rope for towing barges. I don't think lines to a platform would break.
Unless there was a hurricane.... Before that you'd be away from there I'd expect.

| The second was a guy on a Fleet tug deck pulling on our ship to get
| her away from the dock in a typhoon.

You should have kedged it off. :-)

| IIRC it was this tug : http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00P/graphics/Mday4.jpg

Well golly! They DO put the pilot house right on the bow. Must be a bumpy ride in a storm.

| The guy was not in direct line when the 6" samson braid let go, he was
| on the stern quarter of the deck I think heading to dis-engage the
| brake as the line started to smoke.

It's a sad story. You can't be too careful. You can get squashed like a bug any time.

| Not so, the larger the hawser the wider path of danger , the way the
| hawser parts, and it's braid, can make it go off at weird angles.

OK. I believe you now and I understand better. Thanks for a great post.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote
| Yes, but work on deck may prevent that. In one case the guy was
| watching cargo slide on deck after tieing the line that snapped.
| We had headache rails on the boat to jump behind and be safe : Lika
| so..
| http://www.marcon.com/library/Sales_...005Sales/a.jpg

That's a very little picture, Joe. I guess your talking about those things that look like blue walls.

No...the blue "walls" are the bulkheads, it the pipe between the
bulkhead and deck

http://www.exmaroffshore.com/images/...0pix_75dpi.jpg simpler un
cluttered picture shows headache rails

Here is an anchor deck, thats what i did mostly is set anchors for the
semi's. See the guy standing under the headache rail?
http://www.bruceanchor.co.uk/Dennla.htm

If you scroll down that page it shows a deck loaded with anchors,
backdown bouys and rode, cable fixing to put a rig on station. See the
headache rail that run the length of the working deck? They are
nicknamed headache rails for the odvious reason.

| http://supplyboats.leefelterman.com/specs/osv116a.jpg
| see the big rails along the deck side, between the deck and bulwarks?

I see them.

| Thats were you go when **** starts shifting, then you can turn and
| look. See were the stern bits are?

I can't see the stern. It looks like the bow. Or did they put the pilot house right on the bow?

yes http://www.mossww.com/mossmaritime/i...isma-1JA-2.jpg

Maybe that's it. Most boats have the pilot house on the stern. Are those blue things sticking up the bits?

| A line goes up to each corner of a
| drilling platform and you set an anchor off your bow, you may be
| offloading and loading cargo for days on end. You have to work the
| deck, you can not hide all the time.

I thought a hawser was a rope for towing barges. I don't think lines to a platform would break.

think about 500-800 tons surging down q 12 ft wave, how much force
woulf it take to stop it?

If the lines did not break you might pull a rig over.

Unless there was a hurricane.... Before that you'd be away from there I'd expect.

| The second was a guy on a Fleet tug deck pulling on our ship to get
| her away from the dock in a typhoon.

You should have kedged it off. :-)

| IIRC it was this tug : http://www.msc.navy.mil/N00P/graphics/Mday4.jpg

Well golly! They DO put the pilot house right on the bow. Must be a bumpy ride in a storm.

| The guy was not in direct line when the 6" samson braid let go, he was
| on the stern quarter of the deck I think heading to dis-engage the
| brake as the line started to smoke.

It's a sad story. You can't be too careful. You can get squashed like a bug any time.

The guy who lost a leg was between two boats offshore

joe

| Not so, the larger the hawser the wider path of danger , the way the
| hawser parts, and it's braid, can make it go off at weird angles.

OK. I believe you now and I understand better. Thanks for a great post.

Cheers,
Ellen

Joe wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote in
|
| True trailor sailors like you will never encounter anything more
| dangerious than a wet butt rash but........ gory things happen at sea,
| and I rather talk about a 4" hauser parting and killing a sailor so
| perhaps it will instill the importance of never turning your back on a
| line under load. That may keep another person from such a preventable,
| but too common an accident.

True. And more welcome than political talk or motor talk. But seriously. That poor guy
probably wouldn't have time to get away even if he was looking right at the hawser when it
parted.

Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
path it may take if parting.
Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
saved them both.

Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
hit them.

Agree. Having spent over 20 years on & off working on ORV's, LFV's and
the like, I never allow anyone on the working deck while we're
deploying or recovering gear unless they have a job to do, and there's
someone with overwatch role whose job it is to keep an eye on people
who may get too involved in the immediate task to think about
consequences of something going wrong.

We're about to go recover moored instrument strings from 4800m of
water.

PDW

Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote in
|
| True trailor sailors like you will never encounter anything more
| dangerious than a wet butt rash but........ gory things happen at sea,
| and I rather talk about a 4" hauser parting and killing a sailor so
| perhaps it will instill the importance of never turning your back on a
| line under load. That may keep another person from such a preventable,
| but too common an accident.

True. And more welcome than political talk or motor talk. But seriously. That poor guy
probably wouldn't have time to get away even if he was looking right at the hawser when it
parted.

Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
path it may take if parting.
Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
saved them both.

Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
hit them.

Agree. Having spent over 20 years on & off working on ORV's, LFV's and
the like, I never allow anyone on the working deck while we're
deploying or recovering gear unless they have a job to do, and there's
someone with overwatch role whose job it is to keep an eye on people
who may get too involved in the immediate task to think about
consequences of something going wrong.

Same here, but the guy killed was the first mate, his job is to over
see the deck operations and keep the deck hands safe..


We're about to go recover moored instrument strings from 4800m of
water.

Pretty deep water, what's the application?

Joe

PDW

Joe wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Joe" wrote in
|
| True trailor sailors like you will never encounter anything more
| dangerious than a wet butt rash but........ gory things happen at sea,
| and I rather talk about a 4" hauser parting and killing a sailor so
| perhaps it will instill the importance of never turning your back on a
| line under load. That may keep another person from such a preventable,
| but too common an accident.

True. And more welcome than political talk or motor talk. But seriously. That poor guy
probably wouldn't have time to get away even if he was looking right at the hawser when it
parted.

Wrong! The ideal is to keep your eyes on the line, and never get in the
path it may take if parting.
Both times the boats had specific areas to hide behind that would have
saved them both.

Both people killed took thier eyes off the load, they never knew what
hit them.

Agree. Having spent over 20 years on & off working on ORV's, LFV's and
the like, I never allow anyone on the working deck while we're
deploying or recovering gear unless they have a job to do, and there's
someone with overwatch role whose job it is to keep an eye on people
who may get too involved in the immediate task to think about
consequences of something going wrong.

We're about to go recover moored instrument strings from 4800m of
water.

PDW