If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

Capt. JG wrote:
Seems pretty straightforward...

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near
a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white
light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule.

"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen





Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
overthinking the common sense application for what we a
cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
is pure semantic haggling....

"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen

If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
CG, Sheriff?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never
had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an
anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area
have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little
boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Tell them to read the navrules.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure
it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the
"authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Capt. JG" wrote
| If you're not in a designated anchorage perhaps? Even then, I'm not sure it
| would apply. Perhaps they don't know the rules. Who are the "authorities"?
| CG, Sheriff?

Fish and Wildlife Commission enforcement officers. (FWC) State of Florida.

Cheers,
Ellen
heh...well that explains it..maybe Florida is like Michigan and hires
poachers for their wildlife officers.....

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen




If it's on a mooring then it doesn't need a light. oftentimes local
authorities have no idea what marine law is about and some sheriff's
deputy is the one doing harbor patrol. Go to the main office with your
documentation and definitions and show them what's what...in a nice way,
od course.

As OTN pointed out, the phrase "lights or shapes" should be in the
text. I checked 33USC, otherwise known as "the law," and it looks
like the CG site is garbled.

The law is that boats anchored need a light. There are a few
exceptions. Designated "special anchorages" are one category, this
include many of the large mooring fields you find in New England
harbors. Small boats completely out of the way are another group.
This is no exception for being on a mooring (as Katy claimed) or not
being aboard.

However, if you're anchored or moored such that a neighbor could bump
into it should have a light. This regulation was completely ignored
in the past because of the impossibility of providing electricity.
However, now you can get an LED controlled by a solar switch and
powered by a small battery. There is a growing trend to require such
anchor lights. Frankly, it makes sense for areas that might have any
traffic.

You should check the make sure you're not in a special anchorage. The
chart would show it, and the Coast Pilot for your area should list all
anchorages. Also, you could do a bit or research to make sure you
understand the rule, and what devices there are that would work for
your boat, and then go to the "powers that be" and tell them you
understand all the issues, but that because your location is remote,
they should exercise the discretion that Congress, in their wisdom,
granted them, to give you an exemption.



Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen