The colregs talk about anchor lights in Rule 30. Sometimes it will say vessels
under 7 meters don't have to show the shapes described in parts (a) and (b).
Sometimes it will say lights and shapes. Parts a and b talk about lights and
shapes. So what's it really saying. Does a small sailboat less than seven meters
long have to show an anchor light or not.
Thanks for helping... http://www.navrules.com/index.html There's a nice
Nav Rules program for windows for free at the link.

Cheers,
Ellen

Seems pretty straightforward...

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near
a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white
light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...
The colregs talk about anchor lights in Rule 30. Sometimes it will
say vessels
under 7 meters don't have to show the shapes described in parts (a) and
(b).
Sometimes it will say lights and shapes. Parts a and b talk about lights
and
shapes. So what's it really saying. Does a small sailboat less than seven
meters
long have to show an anchor light or not.
Thanks for helping... http://www.navrules.com/index.html There's a
nice
Nav Rules program for windows for free at the link.

Cheers,
Ellen

If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

Capt. JG wrote:
Seems pretty straightforward...

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near
a narrow channel, fairway, anchorage, or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.

(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white
light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in
paragraph (a) of this Rule.

"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30 (or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen





Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
overthinking the common sense application for what we a
cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
is pure semantic haggling....

"katy" wrote
| Who cares which one is right? If you're anchored, show an anchor light
| for Pete's sake, no matter where you are...getting hit in the middle of
| the night by some yumyum not paying attention isn't a place anyone would
| want to be...all this quibbling about the interpretations just leads to
| overthinking the common sense application for what we a
| cruiser/racers...yes, it is important if you are out in commercial
| waters to know what needs to ve known, but what you're addressing here
| is pure semantic haggling....

Sorry, but I should've explained things better. This isn't about being
aboard a boat anchored out. It's about a 17 foot sailboat with no motor
anchored on a mooring. In a harbor away from traffic. It's used only for
day sailing. Nobody lives in it. It doesn't have a battery. It's never had
an anchor light. All of a sudden the authorities say it must have an anchor
light. I don't think they even know why. I'd like to know why.
Do all the boats in harbors on anchors under 7 meters in your area have
anchor lights? I think the 7 meter rule was made just for such little boats.
How can you expect a little boat with no battery and nobody home to turn
on an anchor light every night? It's not even reasonable.

Cheers,
Ellen

There are no "versions" of it.

The official version is he
http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...s/Rule3031.htm

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote
| If no one would bump into it, you don't need the lights. If someone
| might bump into it, you do need light. Yup - that's sound logical.

I was hoping for a more serious answer. Here's why... Here's rule 30
(or one version of it)

Rule 30: Anchored Vessels and Vessels Aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:

(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;

(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed
in subparagraph (i), an all-round white light.

(b) A vessel of less than 50 meters in length may exhibit an all-round
white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights
prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.

(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 meters and more in length
shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights
to illuminate her decks.

(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a)
or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best
be seen;

(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;

(ii) three balls in a vertical line.

(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed
in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It doesn't
talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.
Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where
vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or
shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one is
the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOININ

Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the
batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to show
an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored
somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of
the anchorages
listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere a boat or two
anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then there's
no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you
had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh! Do you see what
I'm asking about

I'm confused. :-(

Cheers,
Ellen

"Capt. JG"
| There are no "versions" of it.
|
| The official version is he
| http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navru...s/Rule3031.htm

Depending where you download it from you get different versions.
Maybe it's a transcription problem or something. Thanks for the link.
I notice in the "official" version it doesn't mention anchorage and only
mentions shape. It says the shape in (a) and (b). How do you explain
there is no shape talked about in (b) only a light. Does shape mean
shape and light or just shape? If just shape how come it includes (b)
a light?
You think I'm dumb but maybe I see things that more experienced
people don't???

Cheers,
Ellen

Cheers,
Ellen

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
reenews.net:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor not in or
near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally
navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *shape* prescribed in
paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.


OK, That's one example. It talks only about the shape. It
doesn't talk about the light. And it doesn't say anything about
anchorages.

Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
shapes".

Now, here's another example:


(e) A vessel of less than 7 meters in length, when at anchor, not in
or near a narrow channel, fairway *or anchorage*, or where vessels
normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the *lights or
shape* prescribed in paragraph (a) and (b) of this Rule.

This one says lights or shapes. And it says anchorage. Which one
is the right one and when was it revised? BTW this one is
from: "Convention on the International Regulations for Preventing
Collisions at Sea, 1972 : Summary and comments mainly oriented to
recreational sailing." ----By Captain P. WOINI

This is the correct one and is part of the 72 COLREGS


Here's Capt. Woinin's comment about (e): He says "Which saves the
batteries of the small boats left unattended. What about the
others?"

It sounds to me like he's saying under 7 meters doesn't have to
show an anchor light unless in an area where other vessels
navigate.
Another question is what's an anchorage. If a boat or two are anchored
somewhere is it an anchorage? Or does it have to be one of the
anchorages listed on a chart or something. It seems to me if anywhere
a boat or two anchored is an anchorage then rule(e) (but just the one
that mentions anchorage)
means nothing at all. If by anchoring you make an anchorage then
there's no reason to have rule(e). In order to get to the spot you
anchored you had to navigate. So other boats could navigate too. Duh!
Do you see what I'm asking about

"Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions and
it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these Rules
are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that frequently
we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.

otn

"otnmbrd" wrote
| Don't know where you got that, but it looks like someone was taking the
| wording out of context to explain a point..... the Rule says "lights or
| shapes".

Do they. Look at the official rules that Capt. J.G. linked. They don't say
lights and shapes, just shapes. (See why I'm confused?) Lights and shapes
definitely makes more sense since shapes aren't mentioned in (b).

| "Anchorages" are specified on charts and in various Sailing Directions and
| it is these that the Rule is discussing. Keep in mind most of these Rules
| are written with large vessels as the intended "subject" so that frequently
| we can find areas that become confusing to small boats.


Thanks. That's what I thought about anchorages. They're marked and recognized.
A few boats anchored in a harbor doesn't necessarily mean it's an anchorage.
So, is it your opinion that a 17 foot sailboat anchored in a harbor that's not an
anchorage listed on a chart required by the rules to show an anchor light? It's not
"in or near a narrow channel, fairway or where other vessels normally navigate."

Cheers,
Ellen