My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
| If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
| from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
| jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
| at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
| be considered "catching up"?


In that case if it were dark you could see the stern light and the bow light
both at the same time. It's still overtaking. It's called two points abaft the beam.
Catching up in my vocabulary means getting closer from somewhere behind even
if it's just one degree from directly from the side (90 degrees).

In that case, your scenario could be either overtaking or not.

My seamanship question #1
 

1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

And I didn't even say it was DNF....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Scotty wrote:

1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while Mooron could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and on the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more than a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.


Except that Suzy has taken the helm again and is intent on
ramming Mooron to plunder his beer supply.


2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me, Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there is no
situation to be worried about.


Katysails would never collide with anybody, that's far too
uncouth.... unless you made her mad.


3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is 1/4 mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about the
situation.


He'd be worried if he realized that my PHRF-penalty custom
torpedo-bulb keel is actually a real wire-guided torpedo.

DSK

My seamanship question #1
 

We knew.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
And I didn't even say it was DNF....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Please don't be bitter in defeat.

Scotty


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
4. I've already finished and am sitting at the bar
wondering why everyone
else is so slow.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
1. Bob could be sailing back to his slip while
Mooron
could
be just passing Stamford, but sailing much faster and
on
the
same heading. No situation, as Bob never sails more
than
a
mile from his slip and he'll be back , shackled in
screening
a movie before Mooron even gets close.

2. I'm sailing 180* at 6.4 kts,15 miles behind me,
Katy is
sailing 180* at 6.6 kts, she's catching me but there
is
no
situation to be worried about.

3. Loco is 300 feet from the windward mark, Doug is
1/4
mile
behind but catching up. Loco is not worried about
the
situation.

SBV



"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message

. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a
situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in
message

. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two
boats,
this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in
message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up,
and I
took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his
course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in
message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story.
Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being
needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. Scumbalino wrote:
Capt. JG wrote:

I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to
me that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would
attempt to "opt out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or
otherwise.

In 99.9 percent of the cases, the race committee follows the Racing
Rules of Sailing. (with perhaps a few minor modifications ) These rules
are different than non-racing right of way rules. (Colregs, etc.)

In extremely rare circumstances, the RC will opt for Colregs or local
governmental right of way rules instead of the Racing rules of sailing.

Leeward no longer has status over windward on the same
tack... stuff like that?

Yes, in some circumstances a windward boat would have right of way over
a leeward boat, or more commonly the leeward boat would have an
obligation to allow the windward boat room to do some maneuver.

It also seems to me that the exceptions need
to be clearly defined.

They are. See http://tinyurl.com/bdxvl
Not really exceptions, but a completly different set of rules.

My impression, although possibly in error, is
that there are additional rules imposed upon boats racing, not fewer.

There are additional obligations, certainly. But there are also
differences.


My understanding is that the colregs always apply (if the waters are subject
to them). I'm not aware of them being supplanted by the RRS, but that the
RRS are an addition to the colregs.

When the racing rules of sailing conflict with Colregs, IRPCAS, or
other government regulation, the RRS supplants those rules. When a boat
agrees to race she agrees to be bound by the RRS, not the other rules in
any circumstance where the rules are in conflict.

However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel that is
not, she shall comply with the International Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

"Walt" wrote in message
...

However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel
that is
not, she shall comply with the International
Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government
right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.


I like the old story of a racer , approaching a cruising
boat, yelling ''We're racing', and the other boat yells
back, ''We're cruising'', and continues on his course.

Scotty

My seamanship question #1
 

Scotty wrote:
"Walt" wrote in message
...
However,

When a boat sailing under these rules meets a vessel
that is
not, she shall comply with the International
Regulations for
Preventing Collisions at Sea (IRPCAS) or government
right-of-way
rules.

If you don't race, the racing rules are irrelevant to you.


I like the old story of a racer , approaching a cruising
boat, yelling ''We're racing', and the other boat yells
back, ''We're cruising'', and continues on his course.

Scotty


I had that happen to me...I was in the water and the O'Day was
aground...we were trying to see how much mud we were in when a flotilla
of MC Scows comes roaring up...Mr Sails is yelling at them that I am in
the water and they screamed back "We're racing!" One zoomed by close
enough that I could have touched its hull....