My seamanship question #1
 

Hey, Scumbalino! You were quickly in my killfile when you first appeared
here but I am pleased to see you are right on topic now and you are right.

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote in message
...
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

How come? You got it wrong too when in your other post you
talked about one of the boats being overtaken.

I see you people need a hint: Subtract the angles. Does the
result fit the definition of overtake?

A vessel shall be deemed to be overtaking when coming up with another
vessel
from a direction more than 22.5 degrees abaft her beam, ...

You have described the course that each vessel is on, the subtraction of
one
from the other being 28 degrees - but this doesn't pertain to the
direction
from the beam of the vessel being overtaken. You didn't define their
positions, only their courses, and stated that their courses look like
they
will converge (which, for colreg purposes, is close enough to be
considered
a potential collision situation).

So, we have a boat on 208deg, and another (catching up on the first) on
180deg, with a convergence point ahead if they maintain these courses.
Whether the catching boat is 22.5deg abaft of the other boat's beam is
unknown - they could be on a collision course, or not, depending on their
positions. See...

http://sports.webshots.com/photo/826...48327613VRqQxV

In the left-hand diagram, the green boat is overtaking the red one, but it
isn't in the right-hand diagram because it's ahead of the green one's
imaginary line representing 22.5deg abaft her beam. Until you define their
positions, it cannot be said for sure that the situation is an overtaking
one.

In lieu of that, I would say that the windward boat has to keep clear.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

"Edgar" wrote
| The overtaking boat.


Errr! I'm afraid I have egg on my face. Your right. It IS an overtaking situation.
I was wrong. I got the 22 and 1/2 angle mixed up. I was thinking it was from the
center line at the back of the boat. Instead it's from the sideways line.
Overtaking is required to change course.


Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"Edgar" wrote
| The overtaking boat.


Errr! I'm afraid I have egg on my face. Your right. It IS an overtaking situation.
I was wrong. I got the 22 and 1/2 angle mixed up. I was thinking it was from the
center line at the back of the boat. Instead it's from the sideways line.
Overtaking is required to change course.

This would be the typical case but not necessarily.

If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
be considered "catching up"?

My seamanship question #1
 

"Jeff" wrote in message
| If the boats were going at similar speeds, they could be converging
| from a distance and seeing each other roughly on the beam. By
| jiggling the speeds, you can find the point where one sees the other
| at exactly 22.5 degrees abaft the beam. The question is, could this
| be considered "catching up"?


In that case if it were dark you could see the stern light and the bow light
both at the same time. It's still overtaking. It's called two points abaft the beam.
Catching up in my vocabulary means getting closer from somewhere behind even
if it's just one degree from directly from the side (90 degrees).

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Name three as applicable to the original question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to me
that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would attempt to "opt
out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or otherwise. Leeward no
longer has status over windward on the same tack... stuff like that? It also
seems to me that the exceptions need to be clearly defined. My impression,
although possibly in error, is that there are additional rules imposed upon
boats racing, not fewer.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.

I had the understanding that when you agreed to race you were "opting out"
of the Colregs and agreeing to abide by the racing rules. OTOH, this
obviously only applies between boats racing.

My seamanship question #1
 

Edgar wrote:

Hey, Scumbalino! You were quickly in my killfile when you first
appeared here but I am pleased to see you are right on topic now and
you are right.

Why on earth you decided to killfile me when I first appeared is a mystery,
since the thrust of my initial posts was to tell a few flonkers just how
dumb they really were, and to make my views on Neal's involvement with them,
and that ****ed-up hoor he made the mistake of getting in tow with, quite
plain. In other words, I did nothing other than uphold the way in which this
group has operated for a long time before the aforementioned saddos tried to
have a go at screwing it up.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:
Name three as applicable to the original question.

Catch up on his freedom fries of boat 1, catch-up on reading on boat
two, boat two is a Ketch w sails up ie: catching up.

Easy Jon.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:
I must confess that I have limited racing experience, but it seems to
me that it's not often that a sanctioned race (committee) would
attempt to "opt out" of the colregs, wrt to boats in the race or
otherwise. Leeward no longer has status over windward on the same
tack... stuff like that? It also seems to me that the exceptions need
to be clearly defined. My impression, although possibly in error, is
that there are additional rules imposed upon boats racing, not fewer.

My understanding is that the colregs always apply (if the waters are subject
to them). I'm not aware of them being supplanted by the RRS, but that the
RRS are an addition to the colregs.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

You got me. I'm voting for Jeb.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

Capt. JG wrote:
Name three as applicable to the original question.

Catch up on his freedom fries of boat 1, catch-up on reading on boat
two, boat two is a Ketch w sails up ie: catching up.

Easy Jon.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Lots of times.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Really? When does "catching up" not mean that?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
No.


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Doesn't "catching up" imply that there's a situation
developing?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
And without knowing the speed of the two boats, this
is
a
dumb question.

SBV


"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
Well, true, but she did say catching up, and I took
that
to mean a possible
collision. The overtaken needs to hold his course.
The
one
overtaking needs
to change course, slow down, whatever.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"katy" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
How do you figure? If one boat is being
overtaken,
in
this scenario,
that's pretty much the end of the story. Speed
isn't
an
issue.

because if the speeds were such one could
conceivably
pass by the other
without any course adjustments being needed....