My seamanship question #1
 

DSK wrote:
....



As I make it out, if the two are both on starboard tack, and the
faster one (catching up) is heading 180 and the other 208, then the
one first one (catching up) will be to windward as they converge.
That gives the other boat a double right of way!


Yes, if this is converging, the slower boat is to leeward and is still
standon.

So what's the big deal? The boat "catching up" has to dodge the other
one, which is pretty much what everybody has said. If "Ellen M" has any
point-awarding authority then she should give everybody some.

Ellen mis-understands the rule and claims the heading imply this is
not overtaking. She get -100 points for not understanding her own quiz.

My seamanship question #1
 

Nope. You're wrong. It's not a crossing situation.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Capt. Scumbalino" wrote

| In lieu of that, I would say that the windward boat has to keep clear.

Right, the windward boat must stay clear. Both are on the starboard
tack and it's not overtaking by definition. It's a crossing situation.

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching up with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching up is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to hit each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that
close to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of
*both* skippers being incompetent.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

Walt wrote:
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching
up with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching
up is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to
hit each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

I wouldn't expect boats to be racing unless it is so stated. There
are lots of unstated possibilities here - you could just as easily
claim its meaningless if it isn't stated whether there is limited
visibility. In the US there is lots of sailing where Colregs and even
the Inland rules don't apply.

Of course, it would be easier if the quiz started with "In waters
where Colregs apply, in good visibility, ..."



Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that
close to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of
*both* skippers being incompetent.

This is a pretty lame way of looking at the rules. Are you really
claiming that Colregs should be ignored because anyone who gets close
enough to another boat to need them is incompetent?

The question only implied that without a course change "it looks like
they're going to hit." This situation happens to me many times every
time I leave the dock. If I'm the give-way boat, I give-way. If I'm
stand-on, I usually stand-on, though I keep my eye on the other boat
to make sure their understanding of the situation is the same as mine.

My seamanship question #1
 

"Lady Pilot" wrote in message
news:pZINg.71457$W01.1319@dukeread08...

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote:
snip boring crap from a cedar bucket

This is FUN!

This is boring, Bart Senorita!

Yeah, I can see how sailing discussions would leave you feeling somewhat
outcast, LP.

Max

My seamanship question #1
 

"katy" wrote
| I don't need to resort to crudeness...smirk....meow....


Good on you. About 90% of the people here could learn a thing or two from you. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen

My seamanship question #1
 

Ellen MacArthur wrote:
"katy" wrote
| I don't need to resort to crudeness...smirk....meow....


Good on you. About 90% of the people here could learn a thing or two from you. :-)

Cheers,
Ellen


I doubt it...most know me well enough already....

My seamanship question #1
 

Jeff wrote:

Sorry, Ellen, you have that wrong. Its 22.5 degrees behind the beam,
not a difference in course. If the two boats have those headings it
could be either overtaking or converging, which would make it
crossing. However, since you stated "catching up" its hard to make
this into something that isn't overtaking.

The only thing that makes it overtaking is the situation on the water. The
terminology used to pose the question doesn't make it so. The original
question, as posed, didn't have enough information to determine whether the
situation was an overtaking one.


--
Capt Scumbalino

My seamanship question #1
 

The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Walt" wrote in message
...
Ellen MacArthur wrote:

A little sailboat with no motor is on the starboard tack catching up
with another
little sailboat with no motor on the starboard tack. The one catching up
is going
on a course of 180 degrees. The one getting caught is going 208 degrees.

Which one has to change course if it looks like they're going to hit
each other?

Your questions are meaningless unles you specify whether the boats are
racing or not. The Racing Rules of Sailing often give quite different
answers than ColRegs et. al.

Basically, unless you're racing, there is no reason to ever get that close
to another boat and any collision is most likely the result of *both*
skippers being incompetent.

//Walt

My seamanship question #1
 

Capt. JG wrote:

The colregs are *fully* in force when racing. The only difference is the
tolerances wrt distance and expectations.


Agreed, but there are differences.... some subtle, some not
so subtle... between the racing rules and ColRegs.

For example, under ColRegs, an overtaking boat must keep
clear. All well and good. Under racing rules, an overtaking
boat must keep clear, too... unless the two boats are on the
same tack and the overtaking boat is to leeward. Then, once
an interval has passed satisfying the overtaking/leeward
boat's obligation to allow room & opportunity to keep clear,
to the other boat, the burden shifts to the windward boat.
This is the case even if he is still being overtaken, or if
he then puts on a little speed (or leeward slows down, a is
more likely).

There is nothing remotely like this in ColRegs, which
assumes that two boats are not going to be jockeying for
position to round the next mark, and want to occupy the same
bit of water at the same time.

However, ColRegs are *definitely* in force with regard to
boats that are racing with respect to boats that aren't.
Some racers seem to feel otherwise, and ColRegs violations
against commercial traffic especially are depressingly
common. IMHO race committees ought to start tossing people
out when they try to gain a position by cutting in front of
a freighter.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King