Cruise ship antics?
 

Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

I guess the fat sam was not as top heavy as the carnival ship. I wonder
if the helmsmans was just FN with the passengers, or maybe they engaged
the autopilot on the wrong course.

Critical injuries....oh my. That ship looks extreamly top heavy, wonder
whats going to happen if it gets in a major storm, people are going to
be slapped back and forth between the bulkheads.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.


I was under the impression that more occured to induce the 30% than
just a helm error. That's a long list!


RB
35s5
NY

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...



I was under the impression that more occured to induce the 30% than
just a helm error.

That's right! The buffet cart rolled to port and some large dork like you
went chasing after it. The rest is history.

Cruise ship antics?
 

That's right! The buffet cart rolled to port and some large dork like you
went chasing after it. The rest is history.


Is this what you've been reduced to? Capt Neal would be ashamed. Next
you'll be making poopy jokes.



RB
35s5
NY

Cruise ship antics?
 

Bob Crantz wrote:
That's right! The buffet cart rolled to port and some large dork like you
went chasing after it. The rest is history.


"Capt" Rob wrote:
Is this what you've been reduced to? Capt Neal would be ashamed. Next
you'll be making poopy jokes.


He just did

DSK

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
That's right! The buffet cart rolled to port and some large dork like you
went chasing after it. The rest is history.


Is this what you've been reduced to? Capt Neal would be ashamed. Next
you'll be making poopy jokes.


....and when the ocean liner heeled you pooped all over the deck, people
slipped in it and the cavalcade of horror began!

Where is the good Capt anyway?

Cruise ship antics?
 

Bob Crantz wrote:

Where is the good Capt anyway?

Still in Kansas. Meet some girl named Dorty.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

Will be interesting to find out what happened. If someone accidently hit
the wrong button during a course change it's one thing, but if there is a
control glitch..... yikes.
Other possible contributor would be "stabilizers".
As for "top heavy".... she does look it, but the reality is that she
probably isn't.

otn





"Joe" wrote in news:1153314952.359174.23310
@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:

Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

I guess the fat sam was not as top heavy as the carnival ship. I wonder
if the helmsmans was just FN with the passengers, or maybe they engaged
the autopilot on the wrong course.

Critical injuries....oh my. That ship looks extreamly top heavy, wonder
whats going to happen if it gets in a major storm, people are going to
be slapped back and forth between the bulkheads.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

otnmbrd wrote:
Will be interesting to find out what happened. If someone accidently hit
the wrong button during a course change it's one thing, but if there is a
control glitch..... yikes.

Does this ship steerable props (such as the Azi-Pod)? If so,
then there's no way the helmsman could make the ship roll no
matter how hard he turned.


Other possible contributor would be "stabilizers".

Bingo

As for "top heavy".... she does look it, but the reality is that she
probably isn't.


I dunno, the ABS has recently decided that use of active
stabilizers counts for stability. Maybe they have some sort
of absolute guarantee that the system never goes down? In
any event, the standards for ship's metacenter has been
changed. Maybe when one of them falls on it's side and the
crew has to right it like a Laser,
http://www.willamettesailingclub.com...os/capsize.jpg
the standards will change back again?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cruise ship antics?
 

DSK wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:
Will be interesting to find out what happened. If someone accidently hit
the wrong button during a course change it's one thing, but if there is a
control glitch..... yikes.

Does this ship steerable props (such as the Azi-Pod)? If so,
then there's no way the helmsman could make the ship roll no
matter how hard he turned.


What? I call BS.!

Are you telling me could not induce a roll on ship with pods? These are
electric outboards engnes in pods, the pods turn so rudders are not
needed. I say... I could make a ship roll faster and harder with pods
if she has any weight up top. Its a matter of sway, not propulsion.

Joe


Other possible contributor would be "stabilizers".

Bingo

As for "top heavy".... she does look it, but the reality is that she
probably isn't.


I dunno, the ABS has recently decided that use of active
stabilizers counts for stability. Maybe they have some sort
of absolute guarantee that the system never goes down? In
any event, the standards for ship's metacenter has been
changed. Maybe when one of them falls on it's side and the
crew has to right it like a Laser,
http://www.willamettesailingclub.com...os/capsize.jpg
the standards will change back again?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cruise ship antics?
 

Does this ship steerable props (such as the Azi-Pod)? If so,
then there's no way the helmsman could make the ship roll no
matter how hard he turned.


Joe wrote:
What? I call BS.!

Are you telling me could not induce a roll on ship with pods?

I don't know if it's impossible to make the ship roll *any*
but it will certainly roll a heck of a lot less.


... Its a matter of sway, not propulsion.


No, it's a matter of forces around the centers of mass &
resistance. A rudder will make a ship roll because it is far
down below the waterline, and it only creates a force in one
direction. With an Azipod the ship is pulled (or pushed)
into a turn with much less heeling force generated. It's one
of the purposes of building it that way.

I suppose it follows that if the azipod (or any other
steerable prop) is used the exact opposite of how it should
be, the ship could roll even more... maybe that's what happened!

Anyway, google up the design brief on azipods if you think
I'm BSing.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cruise ship antics?
 

DSK wrote:

Yeah sure agreed

Anyway, google up the design brief on azipods if you think
I'm BSing.


Sure the design is superior in moving any direction. The reason pods
are used on ships is to avoid harbor tugs and allow tight manuvering in
harbor, and they are a more fuel efficent diesel electric set-up. Has
nothing to do with stability of a cruise ship IMO.

Little experment, take a 4x8 sheet of plywood on edge, set course
straight down the street, then as you get up to speed push the aft
section left or right and see how the plywood sways. You turn something
that heavy fast it is going to sway, do a quick S you could induce a
very nice (even un-expected and deadly) roll with such a top heavy pig.

Joe


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cruise ship antics?
 

Anyway, google up the design brief on azipods if you think
I'm BSing.


Joe wrote:
Sure the design is superior in moving any direction. The reason pods
are used on ships is to avoid harbor tugs and allow tight manuvering in
harbor, and they are a more fuel efficent diesel electric set-up. Has
nothing to do with stability of a cruise ship IMO.


That's not the main purpose, agreed.
But it is a fact that an azipod will induce less rolling
moment on a ship because it can generate a force along any
vector, not just sideways very far below the ship's center
of mass like a rudder.


Little experment, take a 4x8 sheet of plywood on edge, set course
straight down the street, then as you get up to speed push the aft
section left or right and see how the plywood sways. You turn something
that heavy fast it is going to sway,

Wrong.

It sways because the force is not aligned on the horizontal
axis. In order to turn the object, the force must be either
forward or aft of the center of lateral resistance, and
since that's not necessarily the same place as the center of
mass.

In your example, will the plywood sway in the exact same
manner if the plywood is pushed from the bottom or from the
top? How about if it's pulled instead of pushed? How about
if the push (or pull) to turn it is aligned exactly along
the vertical center?

... do a quick S you could induce a
very nice (even un-expected and deadly) roll with such a top heavy pig.


I thought you and OTN were saying they're not that top
heavy? Anyway, a containership stacked as high as the bridge
will be very top heavy too.

DSK

Cruise ship antics?
 

DSK wrote:


I thought you and OTN were saying they're not that top
heavy? Anyway, a containership stacked as high as the bridge
will be very top heavy too.


Not me! Otn said that.

One look at that monster with all it's air borne swimming pools and
buffet carts one can assume she sways like a french girls ass if great
care in not taken to avoid it.

Joe

..
DSK

Cruise ship antics?
 

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
25.201...


Will be interesting to find out what happened. If someone
accidently hit
the wrong button during a course change it's one thing,
but if there is a
control glitch..... yikes.
Other possible contributor would be "stabilizers".
As for "top heavy".... she does look it, but the reality
is that she
probably isn't.

Car haulers look amazingly top heavy, like a gust of wind
would blow one right over.

Scotty

Cruise ship antics?
 

Scotty wrote:
Car haulers look amazingly top heavy, like a gust of wind
would blow one right over.


They look like nothing I've ever seen, certainly not like a
ship.

A lot of modern cruise ships look like some kind of
household appliance.

I wonder if the stability is a problem and we just don't
hear much about it? If a cruise liner capsizes, it will be
in the news though!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Cruise ship antics?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Scotty wrote:
Car haulers look amazingly top heavy, like a gust of
wind
would blow one right over.


They look like nothing I've ever seen, certainly not like
a
ship.

I remember when I was a youngun seeing a shoe box floating
down a creek. Maybe the car hauler designer saw the same
thing?


--
Scotty
''One who never gets out of the Sound cannot, with any
degree of
credibility, comment on the courage of fellow sailors''
.....F.B.

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

DSK wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Car haulers look amazingly top heavy, like a gust of
wind
would blow one right over.


They look like nothing I've ever seen, certainly not
like a
ship.

A lot of modern cruise ships look like some kind of
household appliance.


This ol thimer was quite amazing for her time. Still the
funkyest ever
IMO.
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bl...hics/flip2.jpg


Is that a channel marker?


--
Scotty
..''One who never gets out of the Sound cannot, with any
degree of
credibility, comment on the courage of fellow sailors''
.....F.B.

Cruise ship antics?
 

I heard the cruise ship had R&P steering.


--
Scotty
''One who never gets out of the Sound cannot, with any
degree of
credibility, comment on the courage of fellow sailors''
.....F.B.


"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time
inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without
getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

I guess the fat sam was not as top heavy as the carnival
ship. I wonder
if the helmsmans was just FN with the passengers, or maybe
they engaged
the autopilot on the wrong course.

Critical injuries....oh my. That ship looks extreamly top
heavy, wonder
whats going to happen if it gets in a major storm, people
are going to
be slapped back and forth between the bulkheads.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

Scotty wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

DSK wrote:
Scotty wrote:
Car haulers look amazingly top heavy, like a gust of
wind
would blow one right over.


They look like nothing I've ever seen, certainly not
like a
ship.

A lot of modern cruise ships look like some kind of
household appliance.


This ol thimer was quite amazing for her time. Still the
funkyest ever
IMO.
http://www.cynical-c.com/archives/bl...hics/flip2.jpg


Is that a channel marker?


No it did research on ocean tides. The other half of the ship is under
water. It would travel like a regular ship, then flood to act as a bouy
or platform and plot tides. Cold war tech at it's best.

Joe



--
Scotty
.''One who never gets out of the Sound cannot, with any
degree of
credibility, comment on the courage of fellow sailors''
....F.B.

Cruise ship antics?
 

What I suspect may have happened...

The steerage malfunctioned (for whatever reason)... and threw
the vessel into a hard right (starboard) and/or left (port) turn sit-
uation... and let's guess that they were underway around 24
knots... a considerable amount of list (tilt) occurred... before
the speed was effectively reduced.

And yeh... under those circumstances... things will slide and
glide if not expected... such as in this case... as reported.

Just some speculation on my part.

Check this photo out... of an aircraft carrier doing a power turn:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res7pent/w...os2/index.html

Course I'm certain the navy crew was prepared for this... prior
to it's execution.

Bill

Cruise ship antics?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
otnmbrd wrote:
Will be interesting to find out what happened. If someone accidently hit
the wrong button during a course change it's one thing, but if there is a
control glitch..... yikes.

Does this ship steerable props (such as the Azi-Pod)? If so, then there's
no way the helmsman could make the ship roll no matter how hard he turned.


Would tend to disagree here. You put a ship into a hard turn, the mass of
the ship is going to make it lean towards the outside line of the
turn.....no matter what the propulsion.
Now, I also doubt that the angle they achieved was really as high as
speculated (that high up and it will seem much worse that it is) but it
doesn't take much of a roll which is not expected to start throwing people
and things around, but back to your point.... although Z-drive and azipod
are different, I know a Z-drive will lay itself over in a hard turn but I've
never been on an azipod unit when making one and I would have to think that
on these ships, the stabilizer (if working) would tend to minimize the roll
angle ..... a lot of speculation on my part and why I'm going to be
interested to hear the final reports.


Other possible contributor would be "stabilizers".

Bingo

As for "top heavy".... she does look it, but the reality is that she
probably isn't.


I dunno, the ABS has recently decided that use of active stabilizers
counts for stability. Maybe they have some sort of absolute guarantee that
the system never goes down? In any event, the standards for ship's
metacenter has been changed. Maybe when one of them falls on it's side and
the crew has to right it like a Laser,
http://www.willamettesailingclub.com...os/capsize.jpg
the standards will change back again?

Counts in what way? I can't imagine that it in anyway could count for
initial or damage stability, but may allow a slightly reduced one under
certain operating conditions. As for "top heavy", be it a cruise ship or a
car carrier most of that space is relatively empty (i.e., not a lot of solid
weight) so that looks aside I'm betting they still have a pretty good GM
..... course, as with the car carrier Tricolor, it doesn't take much water to
play hell with that GM.


otn

Cruise ship antics?
 

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch & roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.


I was under the impression that more occured to induce the 30% than
just a helm error. That's a long list!


RB
35s5
NY

It was not a helm error IMO. My guess is it was a prank that went a bit
to far. I bet the helmsman is glad there is no Black Box or camera
focused on him.

They have no ideal what induced the roll. Having helmed a 845 ft ship
all over the Pacific I can make a very good guess as to what happened
if they find no mechanical cause.

1. The helmsman did it, only takes about 10 seconds, and when anyone
looks at the helm after that 10 seconds he's on course looking just as
amazed :0) With the ship being so new, that was the first time somone
tried to see if they could induce a roll. IIRC the ship has Pod's and
no rudders. A seaman who is on the helm may not understand the
difference and tried an old prank sailors have been doing since the
beginning of shipping.

2. The autopilot was switched on.... on the wrong course.

Nothing else IMO.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

There's no hiding.

Peter... I suspect you have hit the nail on the head... so to speak.

I kind of feel... that vessel managemt via their instrumentation knows
exactly
what occurred... coupled with "watch" personnel's testimony.

Understandbly... they are not about to reveal these details... at
this point
in time.

Bill

Cruise ship antics?
 

So...... what the hell do you need all THIS crap for?
Personally, after a short period of time, I'd probably tell you just where
you could shove your data, as it seems you are ready to blame the helmsman
on scanty information, for something which may well NOT be his/her doing.

otn

My suggestion FWIW....analyze/collect your data ...... then ask the people
on the ships what it means


"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch & roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Cruise ship antics?
 

It was one hell of a roll from what I've read. The pool water exited
and was replaced by sea water.

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

Cruise ship antics?
 

Oh Yeah.... that's typical... it's not the guy at the fricken wheel's
fault!!

Half you guys have never been to the wheel house except to fetch another
bottle!

Thank Gawd there are folks like Peter to keep the lot of you slackers within
spec.

CM-

"otnmbrd" wrote in message
ink.net...
So...... what the hell do you need all THIS crap for?
Personally, after a short period of time, I'd probably tell you just where
you could shove your data, as it seems you are ready to blame the helmsman
on scanty information, for something which may well NOT be his/her doing.

otn

My suggestion FWIW....analyze/collect your data ...... then ask the people
on the ships what it means


"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch & roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Cruise ship antics?
 

otnmbrd wrote:
So...... what the hell do you need all THIS crap for?

Because I run systems on research vessels.

Personally, after a short period of time, I'd probably tell you just where
you could shove your data, as it seems you are ready to blame the helmsman
on scanty information, for something which may well NOT be his/her doing.

Ummm, Joe was saying that the helmsman could have been playing games
because he could get back on course before anyone figured it out. I'm
pointing out that - those days are GONE.


otn

My suggestion FWIW....analyze/collect your data ...... then ask the people
on the ships what it means

Heh. Got news for you, *I* tell *them*.

I don't tell the skipper how to drive his ship and he doesn't tell me
how to collect & analyze the data. But I do get to tell him *where* to
drive the ship.

Otn, if you have experience on oceanographic research vessels tracking
satellites across the sky every pass in all weathers, plus running
sophisticated acoustics mapping the sea floor, you'd realise just why I
have all the instruments. Being able to look at it later if someone's
suspected of playing games is just a spinoff. I was aboard a vessel
which had an engine room fire inside the icepack in winter once and my
systems stayed up for 8 hours after the power failed (biiiig UPS). The
data were used subsequently to help sort out timelines and the like.

As an aside, I was on the bridge once while we had a meeting and the
scientists carefully explained to the skipper & watchkeeping officers
why it was *extremely* important that they not deviate at all from the
track from waypoint to waypoint as we'd miss out on bottom coverage.

Some hours later we did, indeed, deviate. The chief scientist came
rushing to the bridge from the instrument room, and started laying into
the officer of the watch about how they couldn't follow simple
instructions and how useless they all were.

Watchkeeping officer pointed out the port window, where some 50m off
there was a 1 km tabular berg. Then suggested that the scientist get
the hell off of the bridge.

I've seen it all, my friend. I've had the fun of hand steering an
icebreaker down leads in the pack, leaving a course track that looked
later like a drunken snail trail (similar to my normal helming, in
fact, but what the hell, they pay me...). I don't make assumptions
(except that most scientists are of limited competence outside their
specialty) until I have all the facts. WRT this thread, perhaps you
might consider the wisdom of that, before you flame me for something I
didn't say.

PDW



"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch & roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Cruise ship antics?
 

Peter wrote:
otnmbrd wrote:
So...... what the hell do you need all THIS crap for?

Because I run systems on research vessels.

Personally, after a short period of time, I'd probably tell you just where
you could shove your data, as it seems you are ready to blame the helmsman
on scanty information, for something which may well NOT be his/her doing.

Ummm, Joe was saying that the helmsman could have been playing games
because he could get back on course before anyone figured it out. I'm
pointing out that - those days are GONE.


All your fancy instruments can do is tell when and how the ship turned,
unless you have a wheel sensor or a camera watching the helmsman just
how are they going to prove that he wipped the wheel two turns stbd, 4
Port then centered back up on course?

Joe





otn

My suggestion FWIW....analyze/collect your data ...... then ask the people
on the ships what it means

Heh. Got news for you, *I* tell *them*.

I don't tell the skipper how to drive his ship and he doesn't tell me
how to collect & analyze the data. But I do get to tell him *where* to
drive the ship.

Otn, if you have experience on oceanographic research vessels tracking
satellites across the sky every pass in all weathers, plus running
sophisticated acoustics mapping the sea floor, you'd realise just why I
have all the instruments. Being able to look at it later if someone's
suspected of playing games is just a spinoff. I was aboard a vessel
which had an engine room fire inside the icepack in winter once and my
systems stayed up for 8 hours after the power failed (biiiig UPS). The
data were used subsequently to help sort out timelines and the like.

As an aside, I was on the bridge once while we had a meeting and the
scientists carefully explained to the skipper & watchkeeping officers
why it was *extremely* important that they not deviate at all from the
track from waypoint to waypoint as we'd miss out on bottom coverage.

Some hours later we did, indeed, deviate. The chief scientist came
rushing to the bridge from the instrument room, and started laying into
the officer of the watch about how they couldn't follow simple
instructions and how useless they all were.

Watchkeeping officer pointed out the port window, where some 50m off
there was a 1 km tabular berg. Then suggested that the scientist get
the hell off of the bridge.

I've seen it all, my friend. I've had the fun of hand steering an
icebreaker down leads in the pack, leaving a course track that looked
later like a drunken snail trail (similar to my normal helming, in
fact, but what the hell, they pay me...). I don't make assumptions
(except that most scientists are of limited competence outside their
specialty) until I have all the facts. WRT this thread, perhaps you
might consider the wisdom of that, before you flame me for something I
didn't say.

PDW



"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch & roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Cruise ship antics?
 

CNN reported that the Capt was a Canadian.

Scotty


"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my
vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro
plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd
and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch
& roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard
time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without
getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.


I was under the impression that more occured to induce
the 30% than
just a helm error. That's a long list!


RB
35s5
NY

It was not a helm error IMO. My guess is it was a prank
that went a bit
to far. I bet the helmsman is glad there is no Black Box
or camera
focused on him.

They have no ideal what induced the roll. Having helmed
a 845 ft ship
all over the Pacific I can make a very good guess as to
what happened
if they find no mechanical cause.

1. The helmsman did it, only takes about 10 seconds, and
when anyone
looks at the helm after that 10 seconds he's on course
looking just as
amazed :0) With the ship being so new, that was the
first time somone
tried to see if they could induce a roll. IIRC the ship
has Pod's and
no rudders. A seaman who is on the helm may not
understand the
difference and tried an old prank sailors have been
doing since the
beginning of shipping.

2. The autopilot was switched on.... on the wrong
course.

Nothing else IMO.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

Scotty wrote:
CNN reported that the Capt was a Canadian.

Oh...well that explains everything.

Joe



Scotty


"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

The helmsman would be in the **** if it was one of my
vessels. I log
all the GPS data in real time plus the ships log & gyro
plus a ton of
other parameters. In fact I have 3 GPS units aboard, 1 fwd
and 2 aft
including an aircraft 3D unit and a trim cube to log pitch
& roll at 10
Hz. There's no hiding.

PDW

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard
time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without
getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.


I was under the impression that more occured to induce
the 30% than
just a helm error. That's a long list!


RB
35s5
NY

It was not a helm error IMO. My guess is it was a prank
that went a bit
to far. I bet the helmsman is glad there is no Black Box
or camera
focused on him.

They have no ideal what induced the roll. Having helmed
a 845 ft ship
all over the Pacific I can make a very good guess as to
what happened
if they find no mechanical cause.

1. The helmsman did it, only takes about 10 seconds, and
when anyone
looks at the helm after that 10 seconds he's on course
looking just as
amazed :0) With the ship being so new, that was the
first time somone
tried to see if they could induce a roll. IIRC the ship
has Pod's and
no rudders. A seaman who is on the helm may not
understand the
difference and tried an old prank sailors have been
doing since the
beginning of shipping.

2. The autopilot was switched on.... on the wrong
course.

Nothing else IMO.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

BG Nah. I'm a lazy sort. Why waste time climbing to the bridge to get me
bottle when I can easily keep it in me room?

otn

"Capt.Mooron" wrote in message
news:LHCvg.142560$S61.34853@edtnps90...
Oh Yeah.... that's typical... it's not the guy at the fricken wheel's
fault!!

Half you guys have never been to the wheel house except to fetch another
bottle!

Thank Gawd there are folks like Peter to keep the lot of you slackers
within spec.

CM-

Cruise ship antics?
 

http://69.55.11.240/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=150714

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Peter" wrote in message
oups.com...

otnmbrd wrote:
So...... what the hell do you need all THIS crap for?

Because I run systems on research vessels.

G Kinda guessed something like that.

Personally, after a short period of time, I'd probably tell you just
where
you could shove your data, as it seems you are ready to blame the
helmsman
on scanty information, for something which may well NOT be his/her doing.

Ummm, Joe was saying that the helmsman could have been playing games
because he could get back on course before anyone figured it out. I'm
pointing out that - those days are GONE.

Actually those days were gone long before the newer systems. However, for
this type vessel the helmsman does little more than monitor things at sea as
the ship will be on autopilot 99% of the time and if the ship was on "hand"
steering, all of his actions would be watched.
(Not to say he couldn't screwup/oversteer, but odds are this is a
mechanical/electronic glitch since the action to induce a 15deg roll would
be a considerable, uncorrected screwup...... unlikely.)

My suggestion FWIW....analyze/collect your data ...... then ask the
people
on the ships what it means

Heh. Got news for you, *I* tell *them*.

G It's a two way street. When lucky enough to have this type of data, you
can generally get much more from it if you analyze it together, rather than
seperately.


I've seen it all, my friend. I've had the fun of hand steering an
icebreaker down leads in the pack, leaving a course track that looked
later like a drunken snail trail (similar to my normal helming, in
fact, but what the hell, they pay me...). I don't make assumptions
(except that most scientists are of limited competence outside their
specialty) until I have all the facts. WRT this thread, perhaps you
might consider the wisdom of that, before you flame me for something I
didn't say.

PDW

My first job in "65" was on a research vessel (long gone) and I've had
numerous occasions to observe the "scientist" "deckie" relationship since.
As for flaming you....G nah.....I just responded to what you *did* say,
and you'll note that in my first post I stated that I'm going to be
interested in finding out what really was the cause of this, once the
investigation is complete.

otn

Cruise ship antics?
 

ROFL

wrote in message
oups.com...
It was one hell of a roll from what I've read. The pool water exited
and was replaced by sea water.

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

Cruise ship antics?
 

The pool water *is* sea water on those ships.

SBV


wrote in message
oups.com..
..
It was one hell of a roll from what I've read. The pool
water exited
and was replaced by sea water.

Joe wrote:
Capt. Rob wrote:
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard
time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without
getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

Cruise ship antics?
 

Human error



http://www.wesh.com/news/9555476/detail.html



Cap'n Crunch




"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing
a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting
caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

I guess the fat sam was not as top heavy as the carnival ship. I
wonder
if the helmsmans was just FN with the passengers, or maybe they
engaged
the autopilot on the wrong course.

Critical injuries....oh my. That ship looks extreamly top heavy,
wonder
whats going to happen if it gets in a major storm, people are going
to
be slapped back and forth between the bulkheads.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

Human error, generally rears it's ugly head, but there's still more to
it..... i.e., the system and the officer's training/experience, allowed this
"error" to occur.

otn


"Cap'n Crunch" wrote in message
. ..
Human error



http://www.wesh.com/news/9555476/detail.html



Cap'n Crunch




"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...
Now when on the helm of the fat sam I had a very hard time inducing a
30 degree roll, lucky to get a 10 degree roll without getting caught,
and we were 11 decks abouve the waterline.

I guess the fat sam was not as top heavy as the carnival ship. I wonder
if the helmsmans was just FN with the passengers, or maybe they engaged
the autopilot on the wrong course.

Critical injuries....oh my. That ship looks extreamly top heavy, wonder
whats going to happen if it gets in a major storm, people are going to
be slapped back and forth between the bulkheads.

Joe

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Joe" wrote:

Scotty wrote:
CNN reported that the Capt was a Canadian.

Oh...well that explains everything.

Joe

Captain Ron? From Nova Scotia? lol

LP

Cruise ship antics?
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote:
That's right! The buffet cart rolled to port and some large dork like you
went chasing after it. The rest is history.


Is this what you've been reduced to? Capt Neal would be ashamed. Next
you'll be making poopy jokes.

Capt. Neal loves "cedar bucket" jokes, Rob! Yet with the program!

LP