"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 13:06:05 -0500, Jean Pudl wrote:

Bart Senior wrote:
Welcome to the group Jean. I'll forgive you for making
an ass of yourself in your first post.

There's little hope I can match your 100% record!

It is easy to make
hasty remarks that cannot be retracted.

Did I say something incorrect?


Why don't you introduce yourself. You must work for
US Sailing in some capacity. Please elaborate.

No connection at all, other than having been a member for several
periods. I have, however, been a beneficiary of their work on
numerous occasions, in particular, whenever I've raced. I've also
sailed a number of times at ASA affiliates and my wife has taken one
of their courses, as have a number of friends. I have no complaints
with either.



My statement about the ASA and US Sailing being nearly
identical is with regards to their keelboat training programs.

Keelboat training is a tiny part of USSailing's operation. Perhaps
you should have qualified your comments.


ASA is not involved with racing as you know. While US
Sailing on the other hand, has it's roots in racing--it is too
bad they did not stay with their expertise.

Why? Are you claiming they should stay out of keel-boat training
because another group sees them as competition? You've even said that
for the students it doesn't matter much. It would seem that
ultimately its the quality of the school that counts, not their
affiliation.


So you think the clients of ASA are yuppies? That is
funny!

That's the demographic (more or less) of those who are seeking the
keelboat certification offered by both USSailing and ASA. The
difference is that this is the only business of ASA, because that's
where the money is. USSailing, on the other hand, serves the entire
boating community.


If you knew anything about sail training you would know
that the "people" who take such courses span all age
groups. If any group dominated, it would be middle
aged people--not yuppies. I've taught over 700 people
to sail from children to one man nearly 100 years old.
Empty-nester are the most common students.

OK. Yuppies that grew up. Anyway you look it, this is an aspect of
the sport for those on the affluent side of the curve. The single
mother with three kids and two jobs is not likely to need a bare boat
chartering certificate. She may however, be interested in sending her
kids to a community sailing program, or a YMCA camp.

I've also taught hundreds of students. The difference is that I did
it at non-profit organizations and no one ever paid more then a few
hundred dollars for a summer of sailing. Most fees were under $50.

I'm not claiming that for-profit training is bad, but I never saw much
help from ASA in the non-profit world. And from my point of view,
claiming the two organizations are "identical" is ludicrous.


Furthermore, the demographics of ASA sailing school
students are identical to the clients of sailing schools
following US Sailing certifications. So what is the point
of your bizarre statement?

That may be true in the area that ASA focuses on. But isn't that a
tautology? Where they cater to the same customers they have the same
demographics? What is bizarre is your claim that because they overlap
in this area they are "identical."


You seem to imply sailing students are a bunch of dolts.

I only implied something about you. And you're certainly living up to
that implication now!


Perhaps you grew up with sailing and this is the reason
for your arrogant attitude. Many of my students have
become fine sailors through their love of the sport.

and your point is ... ? You have fine students so you're allowed to
be a dolt? OK, if you insist.

I'd be willing to bet they have better skills than yours in
some areas. I congratulate them while my opinion of you
has dropped yet another notch.

Oh. I point out that you said something blatantly wrong and therefore
I'm a bad sailer. You must be a Republican.



US Sailing has been knocking ASA for eleven years. US
Sailing claims it has a higher standard and tells everyone
that the ASA standard is lower.

Oh, now we see. You have a big chip there. To be honest, I don't
know much about the merits of either side of this feud. I don't care
much, and I doubt anyone not in the business cares much.

The rest of your material is interesting, but misses the point. US
Sailing IS the "National Governing Body" of the sport according to an
act of Congress. That is a matter of fact. They are the folks that
run the national team, send sailers to the Olympics, trains the race
committees, etc. Although this is primarily oriented towards racing,
its a historical fact that until about 25 years ago most recreational
sailing training was run by yacht clubs and other non-profits that
were the same groups that ran racing. Its no surprise that their
national group would get involved in training. Further, while ASA is
focused on keelboat training, these non-profits often deal with small
boat training, especially for kids.

If you have any doubt, here's their respective affiliates for your
home state:
https://www.american-sailing.com/lea...nnecticut.html
http://www.ussailing.org/csa/memberOrgs.asp?state=CT


So let me repeat. You made three factual errors in your short post;
the truth is:

USSailing IS the "National Governing Body" by act of Congress. The
comment by ARG that started this thread (that ASA was the governing
body) was incorrect, the article he referenced never claimed it, and
the ASA site never claims it.

USSailing IS a non-profit. The fact that some for-profit companies
use their materials is irrelevant.

USSailing and ASA are not "identical," they are very different
organizations. They just happen to overlap in one area. You seem
obsessed with this point, defining USSailing by one small piece of the
work.

I never once mentioned that USSailing is better or worse than ASA, I
only said your claims were factually wrong. The bizarre thing is that
you've even admitted that you were wrong in two of these points, but
you've tried to hide that by claiming that I have some sort of evil
agenda.

snip interesting but off topic discussion of the history and relative
merits to the two training programs


I eagerly await your response Jean. Try to come up with
some credible arguments next time.


I don't think I could possibly do a better job of landing a giant
Bart-fish than this!

JP





"Jean Pudl" wrote

Bart Senior wrote:

Both groups are virtually identical yet they
don't accept each others standards! Absurd!


Each of these groups is FOR PROFIT, not
for sailing.

Right. One group is For Profit, focuses almost entirely on charging
yuppies to train them for sailing their first boat or bare boat
charter and was created about 20 years ago. The other is a Non-Profit
organization that deals with all aspects of the sport, is the National
Governing Body for much of the racing in the US, develops and manages
the handicap systems (IMS, PHRF, Americap, etc) and is over 100 years
old.

I can see why you think they're virtually identical.




Bravo! Well done.



Quite a smackdown!

Amen!

You don't need to use any special type of lure, I will
rise to any bait on the subject of US Sailing.

I hold US Sailing's Training Program in contempt. I
will continue to be vocal about it.

Please feel free to bait me on the subject any time.

Amen!

"Bob Crantz" wrote

I don't think I could possibly do a better job of landing a giant
Bart-fish than this!

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message ...


"Bob Crantz" wrote

I don't think I could possibly do a better job of landing a giant
Bart-fish than this!



I didn't write the above.

Amen!

But I did say "Great smackdown"

Amen!

Bart,
What's your gripe with US SAILING? Sounds like a
personal issue.
I have heard of more instructors moving from ASA
to US SAILING than visa versa.
S.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
: You don't need to use any special type of lure,
I will
: rise to any bait on the subject of US Sailing.
:
: I hold US Sailing's Training Program in
contempt. I
: will continue to be vocal about it.
:
: Please feel free to bait me on the subject any
time.
:
: Amen!
:
: "Bob Crantz" wrote
:
: I don't think I could possibly do a better
job of landing a giant
: Bart-fish than this!
:
:

"NotPony" wrote

Bart,
What's your gripe with US SAILING? Sounds like a
personal issue.

You have made the correct assumption Steve.

There are lots of reasons I don't like US Sailing. My blood
boils when I think about it. They should change their name
to bogUS Sailing.

The main issue is a grievance I made to them a number of
years ago. US Sailing would not address my complaint, give
me a hearing on the matter, schedule a meeting on the subject,
or give me the refund I demanded.

They never put anything in writing. If you check bogUS Sailing's
By-Laws, there is NO process for instructors to file grievances.
It is the singular exception in the grievance process.

Foolish me! I never thought their management would want to
stifle the whole thing. Being a military man, I did not adapt
well to civilian life at first. I had come to expect much better,
a standard of excellence. I should have taken more aggressive
action immediately, but I honestly expected better of them.

Perhaps at first, bogUS Sailing simply didn't know how to handle
my complaint. Later it was probably easier to ignore me and
hope I'd go away. Certainly their were forces within US Sailing
that wanted to bury the incident and protect some of the people
involved.

Here is a brief summary of what happened and how it started.

I was taking a Coastal Passage Making ( CP) Instructor
Certification Course. This would simply allow me to sign the log
books of the students I was teaching in this subject.

During this course, I was harassed, put down, pushed off balance,
non-stop for a week simply because I stood up for my rights on
the first day. They were unable to bully me and I think that ****ed
the lead Instructor Trainer (IT) more than anything.

It was a clear cut case of bias, and blind stupidity. One "student"
happened to be the Naval Academy's Sailing Program Director.
He was taking the same course I was taking. From my perspective
though, he was another CP Instructor Candidate.

Here is what was going on behind the scenes.

US Sailing wanted to gain credibility. If the Naval Academy joined
their training program it would be a big boost for them. So they
greased it for this fellow--he was pre-selected to become an IT, and
the two ITs running the course, kissed his ass, made it easy for him,
didn't evaluate him, and offered him cigars. Meanwhile I was badgered
and humiliated, constantly put off balance, after I simply demanded
fair and equal rights.

He didn't want or ask for special treatment, yet he received special
treatment. I wanted to be treated fairly and was blasted like a
target in a shooting gallery and not treated fairly.

It started with a simple lottery for selecting berths on the yacht,
and I was punished for drawing the best remaining berth.

The IT announced he was taking the best cabin and told us to
decide amongst ourselves how to divide up the other berths.
We gave the one woman aboard the V-berth, and the rest of the
group decided to use a lottery format. I was lucky and drew the
aft port cabin. The Navy guy got the comfortable dinette berth
and the last guy drew the uncomfortable berth.

After making a big deal about letting us chose our own methods
of assigning bunks, the lead IT now told me I should cede my bunk
to the Navy guy--even though he had announced loudly that he was
perfectly happy with the dinette berth he drew. I declined the
suggestion. We drew lots--the matter was closed as far as I was
concerned.

Next I was taken aside privately in the clubhouse, this time by both
IT's. They sat me down in a tiny room isolated from the others.
This time the second instructor started pressuring me to cede my
bunk to the Navy guy. I pointed out we were both students. He
agreed. I stated I had equal right to the cabin, drew it in a fair
lottery. He stated I could make that point. He still said I should
give up my cabin but did not give me any valid reason to do so.

I refused to give it up. I fault myself for not going on the offense
at this point. Frankly I was confused about why they made an issue
of it. We followed the lead IT's suggestion to chose our own
method. It worked for us, so why did they care? It made no sense
to me, put me off balance, and was the beginning of my confusion
over the whole event.

Can you believe this sort of nonsense would happen? I laugh when
I think about it. You just can't make this stuff up!

The Lead IT was English. You know how the English love their
royalty. I think he viewed the Navy guy, who was an O-6
(Navy rank of Captain in the Reserves) as royalty. That was
exactly they way he was treated--like royalty.

Starting from that point the lead IT had it in for me. He made the
course into a daily hell for me. Any task I was assigned included
harassment, distraction, disruption, and rude patronizing comments.
How could I focus on the tasks at hand when I was constantly
fighting down the urge to push the guy overboard? I'm an easy
going guy. To set me off it takes a lot, and I was constantly being
push to the edge of my tolerance.

It seemed clear to me from the start the lead IT meant to flunk me
one way or another. His strategy worked. He did put me off and
my performance suffered. Right off the bat, I blew two backed in
docking approaches when he made sudden distracting motions at
the most critical instant of the maneuver. The slips were a little
tight--no sweat going in forward, but a narrow alleyway, and a
wide transom meant it had to be perfect to make it in.

When I fought back, he piled on me harder. I spent much of my
time thinking about where the next shot would come, rather than
the task at hand.

I could go on and on with you tons of examples. I was dinged
for not motoring down the exact center of max ebb of the Golden
Gate while the other boat sailed within a biscuit toss of the rocks on
the south side. Another time I brought the boat into the dock as
perfectly as it could possibly be done. It was a beautiful thing. So
what happened? I was dinged for shutting down the engine before
my three hands on the dock, holding me in position had cleated us
off. Talk about overkill. Three dock lines and the boat was stationary!
There was no forward motion, no current, and no wind. Where was
this coming from? A book? I felt sure this guy have never docked
under sail as it is not a big deal. I've sailed larger boats into slips in
such light conditions.

It was do this, do that, how come you haven't done this, while the
other guy had no pressure, a crew to help him, and GPS navigation
I was kept off balance constantly. The bottom line is I was set up
to flunk. And that is what they did to me.

The fellow who was head of the Naval Academy's sailing program
became an IT shortly after he completed the course. He later
changed my status to passing. That was nice of him, however, as
I thought about it, it ****ed me off further! I guess US Sailing
thought I'd be satisfied. No. The root problem remained and was
never addressed.

I have seen all sorts of things like this happen in other IT clinics.
I have little respect for the US Sailing IT's because they have no
quality control function to check unprofessional, or incorrect
behavior of the IT's. Without a feedback process that eliminates
and culls, rude, poor performing, or unfair IT's, the training program
will remain mediocre at best.

US Sailing's Training Program is run by a few sailing schools, who
put their own people in positions of power and together they control
the training program for their own financial benefit and to satisfy their
own egos and agendas. Some IT's are protected by virtue of the
relationships they hold with the sailing schools. People so entrenched
cannot be dislodged. The cure is to turn them over and create a
standards based process with performance feedback and the real
possibility that an IT will be removed and replaced with someone
better and more qualified.

What is left for me to do regarding bogUS Sailing? I'm thinking
about writing some editorials. US Sailing does not deserve our
support. They do not deserve the quasi-governmental position
they have, and they do not deserve being granted an unfair
competitive advantage over the American Sailing Association.

I have been looking for an independent film topic and it suddenly
occurred to me, my story would make a great topic for a film.

The film "Open Water" cost only $120,000 to make and grossed
$52 million. Panasonic makes a nice HD video camera for
about $10k. I think my story would be a winner. Most people don't
understand sailing, but they do understand, assholes with power,
bias, harassment, and conflict.

There is a lot more to my story. It would make a great screenplay--
easy to shoot, small cast, one or two boats and few props. The
stupid close-minded Englishman would make a great character study
that you would love to hate.

What would be a good title for the movie? My idea for a title is
"Contempt" or maybe "Five Sailors, One Asshole, and a Cover-Up".

Bart, who is this Navy guy who is now a CP
instructor? Cmdr. Vandenberg is the Director of
the NA's sailing program, and he isn't a CP
instructor. In fact, I don't see anyone in the
list that is associated with the NA.
I don't know about the keelboat side, but in the
small boat training side, there are many
opportunities for the instructors and host site to
be critiqued.
S.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
: "NotPony" wrote
:
: Bart,
: What's your gripe with US SAILING? Sounds
like a
: personal issue.
:
: You have made the correct assumption Steve.
:
: There are lots of reasons I don't like US
Sailing. My blood
: boils when I think about it. They should change
their name
: to bogUS Sailing.
:
: The main issue is a grievance I made to them a
number of
: years ago. US Sailing would not address my
complaint, give
: me a hearing on the matter, schedule a meeting
on the subject,
: or give me the refund I demanded.
:
: They never put anything in writing. If you
check bogUS Sailing's
: By-Laws, there is NO process for instructors to
file grievances.
: It is the singular exception in the grievance
process.
:
: Foolish me! I never thought their management
would want to
: stifle the whole thing. Being a military man, I
did not adapt
: well to civilian life at first. I had come to
expect much better,
: a standard of excellence. I should have taken
more aggressive
: action immediately, but I honestly expected
better of them.
:
: Perhaps at first, bogUS Sailing simply didn't
know how to handle
: my complaint. Later it was probably easier to
ignore me and
: hope I'd go away. Certainly their were forces
within US Sailing
: that wanted to bury the incident and protect
some of the people
: involved.
:
: Here is a brief summary of what happened and how
it started.
:
: I was taking a Coastal Passage Making ( CP)
Instructor
: Certification Course. This would simply allow
me to sign the log
: books of the students I was teaching in this
subject.
:
: During this course, I was harassed, put down,
pushed off balance,
: non-stop for a week simply because I stood up
for my rights on
: the first day. They were unable to bully me
and I think that ****ed
: the lead Instructor Trainer (IT) more than
anything.
:
: It was a clear cut case of bias, and blind
stupidity. One "student"
: happened to be the Naval Academy's Sailing
Program Director.
: He was taking the same course I was taking. From
my perspective
: though, he was another CP Instructor Candidate.
:
: Here is what was going on behind the scenes.
:
: US Sailing wanted to gain credibility. If the
Naval Academy joined
: their training program it would be a big boost
for them. So they
: greased it for this fellow--he was pre-selected
to become an IT, and
: the two ITs running the course, kissed his ass,
made it easy for him,
: didn't evaluate him, and offered him cigars.
Meanwhile I was badgered
: and humiliated, constantly put off balance,
after I simply demanded
: fair and equal rights.
:
: He didn't want or ask for special treatment, yet
he received special
: treatment. I wanted to be treated fairly and
was blasted like a
: target in a shooting gallery and not treated
fairly.
:
: It started with a simple lottery for selecting
berths on the yacht,
: and I was punished for drawing the best
remaining berth.
:
: The IT announced he was taking the best cabin
and told us to
: decide amongst ourselves how to divide up the
other berths.
: We gave the one woman aboard the V-berth, and
the rest of the
: group decided to use a lottery format. I was
lucky and drew the
: aft port cabin. The Navy guy got the
comfortable dinette berth
: and the last guy drew the uncomfortable berth.
:
: After making a big deal about letting us chose
our own methods
: of assigning bunks, the lead IT now told me I
should cede my bunk
: to the Navy guy--even though he had announced
loudly that he was
: perfectly happy with the dinette berth he drew.
I declined the
: suggestion. We drew lots--the matter was closed
as far as I was
: concerned.
:
: Next I was taken aside privately in the
clubhouse, this time by both
: IT's. They sat me down in a tiny room isolated
from the others.
: This time the second instructor started
pressuring me to cede my
: bunk to the Navy guy. I pointed out we were
both students. He
: agreed. I stated I had equal right to the
cabin, drew it in a fair
: lottery. He stated I could make that point. He
still said I should
: give up my cabin but did not give me any valid
reason to do so.
:
: I refused to give it up. I fault myself for not
going on the offense
: at this point. Frankly I was confused about why
they made an issue
: of it. We followed the lead IT's suggestion to
chose our own
: method. It worked for us, so why did they care?
It made no sense
: to me, put me off balance, and was the beginning
of my confusion
: over the whole event.
:
: Can you believe this sort of nonsense would
happen? I laugh when
: I think about it. You just can't make this
stuff up!
:
: The Lead IT was English. You know how the
English love their
: royalty. I think he viewed the Navy guy, who
was an O-6
: (Navy rank of Captain in the Reserves) as
royalty. That was
: exactly they way he was treated--like royalty.
:
: Starting from that point the lead IT had it in
for me. He made the
: course into a daily hell for me. Any task I was
assigned included
: harassment, distraction, disruption, and rude
patronizing comments.
: How could I focus on the tasks at hand when I
was constantly
: fighting down the urge to push the guy
overboard? I'm an easy
: going guy. To set me off it takes a lot, and I
was constantly being
: push to the edge of my tolerance.
:
: It seemed clear to me from the start the lead IT
meant to flunk me
: one way or another. His strategy worked. He
did put me off and
: my performance suffered. Right off the bat, I
blew two backed in
: docking approaches when he made sudden
distracting motions at
: the most critical instant of the maneuver. The
slips were a little
: tight--no sweat going in forward, but a narrow
alleyway, and a
: wide transom meant it had to be perfect to make
it in.
:
: When I fought back, he piled on me harder. I
spent much of my
: time thinking about where the next shot would
come, rather than
: the task at hand.
:
: I could go on and on with you tons of examples.
I was dinged
: for not motoring down the exact center of max
ebb of the Golden
: Gate while the other boat sailed within a
biscuit toss of the rocks on
: the south side. Another time I brought the boat
into the dock as
: perfectly as it could possibly be done. It was
a beautiful thing. So
: what happened? I was dinged for shutting down
the engine before
: my three hands on the dock, holding me in
position had cleated us
: off. Talk about overkill. Three dock lines and
the boat was stationary!
: There was no forward motion, no current, and no
wind. Where was
: this coming from? A book? I felt sure this guy
have never docked
: under sail as it is not a big deal. I've sailed
larger boats into slips in
: such light conditions.
:
: It was do this, do that, how come you haven't
done this, while the
: other guy had no pressure, a crew to help him,
and GPS navigation
: I was kept off balance constantly. The bottom
line is I was set up
: to flunk. And that is what they did to me.
:
: The fellow who was head of the Naval Academy's
sailing program
: became an IT shortly after he completed the
course. He later
: changed my status to passing. That was nice of
him, however, as
: I thought about it, it ****ed me off further! I
guess US Sailing
: thought I'd be satisfied. No. The root problem
remained and was
: never addressed.
:
: I have seen all sorts of things like this happen
in other IT clinics.
: I have little respect for the US Sailing IT's
because they have no
: quality control function to check
unprofessional, or incorrect
: behavior of the IT's. Without a feedback
process that eliminates
: and culls, rude, poor performing, or unfair
IT's, the training program
: will remain mediocre at best.
:
: US Sailing's Training Program is run by a few
sailing schools, who
: put their own people in positions of power and
together they control
: the training program for their own financial
benefit and to satisfy their
: own egos and agendas. Some IT's are protected
by virtue of the
: relationships they hold with the sailing
schools. People so entrenched
: cannot be dislodged. The cure is to turn them
over and create a
: standards based process with performance
feedback and the real
: possibility that an IT will be removed and
replaced with someone
: better and more qualified.
:
: What is left for me to do regarding bogUS
Sailing? I'm thinking
: about writing some editorials. US Sailing does
not deserve our
: support. They do not deserve the
quasi-governmental position
: they have, and they do not deserve being granted
an unfair
: competitive advantage over the American Sailing
Association.
:
: I have been looking for an independent film
topic and it suddenly
: occurred to me, my story would make a great
topic for a film.
:
: The film "Open Water" cost only $120,000 to make
and grossed
: $52 million. Panasonic makes a nice HD video
camera for
: about $10k. I think my story would be a winner.
Most people don't
: understand sailing, but they do understand,
assholes with power,
: bias, harassment, and conflict.
:
: There is a lot more to my story. It would make
a great screenplay--
: easy to shoot, small cast, one or two boats and
few props. The
: stupid close-minded Englishman would make a
great character study
: that you would love to hate.
:
: What would be a good title for the movie? My
idea for a title is
: "Contempt" or maybe "Five Sailors, One Asshole,
and a Cover-Up".
:
:
:
:
:
:

NotPony wrote:
I don't know about the keelboat side, but in the
small boat training side, there are many
opportunities for the instructors and host site to
be critiqued.
S.

Some years ago I got involved in the Level 1 and 2 Dinghy
Instructor program, which was pretty neat... being run by
much younger people, for one thing... it was expensive to
get them to come & do a course but the intructional talent,
organization, and dedication to the sport were good.

DSK

Steve, I don't think he is there any more. I didn't say he
was a CP instructor--he probably was. He did serve as
BK/BC IT outside of the Naval Academy for US Sailing
commerical keelboat school. Give me a call or pass your
phone number to Doug and I'll tell you whatever you want
to know.

Tell me Steve, do you think a keelboat instructor needs
to take yet another certification course to teach small
boats? I don't. That issue alone turned me away from
volunteering at one location.

Do you think that every single certification required
that someone take an evaluation course? The purpose
of which is to make money? Should there not be a
process where a committee review is sufficient to
grant such status? Take the Naval Academy guy.
It was presumed he was passed and he was not
evaluated to the same standard as I was. In my
opinion, he probably could have shown he taught
such courses, document this fact and be able to
submit a resume to place out of such a requirement.

Certainly if the presumption is everyone should be
evaluate to the same standard, they should all be
treated exactly the same. Everything should be
above board. If it's not, it needs to be fixed.
Those at fault need to be removed from such
authority.

Given the close similarities between ASA and bogUS
Sailing's keelboat programs, do you think ASA
certified instructor need to re-qualify for US Sailing?
I don't.

Do you think less qualified people should be
evaluating those with more comprehensive sailing
resumes? I don't.

Do you think a high percentage of the IT's should come
from one sailing school? I don't.

Do you think a man who runs a commercial sailing
school should be the training chair? I don't.

Do you think commercial sailing instructor's deserve
their own representation at US Sailing? I do.

You say there are lots of opportunities for feedback
on the small boat side. Why then is there a gap in the
grievance process in the By-Laws for instructors?

The bottom line is it seems most sailor wants to think
they are better than most everyone else. I've seen it
in racing crews, I've seen it in US Sailing. You have
so many ego's trying to drive others down in the pecking
order. What happened to developing skills?

I've said it many times in the past. You have to be
humble if you want to learn. US Sailing needs to
develop some humility.


"NotPony" wrote
Bart, who is this Navy guy who is now a CP
instructor? Cmdr. Vandenberg is the Director of
the NA's sailing program, and he isn't a CP
instructor. In fact, I don't see anyone in the
list that is associated with the NA.
I don't know about the keelboat side, but in the
small boat training side, there are many
opportunities for the instructors and host site to
be critiqued.
S.