Learning to sail the USA way.
More info please.
Joe |
bogUS Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
"NotPony" wrote "Bart Senior" .@. wrote : : Tell me Steve, do you think a keelboat instructor needs : to take yet another certification course to teach small : boats? I don't. I do. Most keel boat sailors I know haven't a clue about capsizing or weight placement. Hahahaha! That is funny. If they don't they'll get wet! I doubt they would have that problem for long. Why not just turn them loose in a boat for a few days? The principals are the same. They'd pick it up what they need to know quickly. In any event, why not accept the keelboat certification if the instructor that can demonstrate the additional skills of capsize recovery and weight and balance? They could do that right off the dock in a few minutes right in front of you. Lots of keelboat people have started in dinks! What about them? Should an experience adult have to sit through a boring certification course with a bunch of kids? I'm talking about someone who knows how to sail a Laser, and has completed the instructors clinic for US Sailing, ASA, RYA or the equivalent? What about a guy who has competed in the Olympics on skiff's and has a keelboat instructors certification? Does he have to take the course too? That is the policy now, AND IT MAKES NO SENSE! US Sailing is either stupid and inflexible or else it is purely and simply a functioning on a profit motivation! The rules need to be changed to allow this sort of thing. And income should not be a factor in the decision! : Do you think that every single certification requires : that someone take an evaluation course? The purpose : of which is to make money? Should there not be a : process where a committee review is sufficient to : grant such status? I do. How else are you going to evaluate their skills? Take their word for it? Most people I know over estimate their skills. How about putting them in an environment totally unlike the relaxed environment of a teaching situation with a ego-maniac and tyrant of an IT? If they don't kill the IT, they can handle anything, right? Pass 'em! I'm sure you realize that many students get nervous if unnecessary pressure is put on them. The whole idea is to help students feel comfortable on a boat. That is an important characterist of an instructor. If you want to evaluate someone on their teaching skills, go along on a class and keep your mouth shut and simply watch. The same goes for instructors. Lots of people don't perform well in an ambiguous role under a spotlight. It is especially difficult when you use the standard for teaching MOB's and suddenly find the IT has changed the MOB procedure to his pet method without regard to following the handbook. These things go on at US Sailing clinics--I've seen it. US Sailing is not so good that it can declare everyone else sucks. If the methods are refined and the IT's are good, I am not opposed to formal courses. I am opposed to forcing people to take unnecessary courses, repetitions of what they have taken before. Certainly many things can be evaluated through tests or written essays. And a short observation by an IT or lead instructor, in the real world teaching real students can fill in any remaining gaps. There should be some flexibility in the program. Lets get back to transfer credit. What about the RYA? US Sailing based their program on the RYA program. Would you accept transfer credit from people who have successfully completed such courses? If you do not agree then you better be willing to back it up with a detailed explaination why not. There are lots of programs out there. Colleges accept transfer credit from other schools. You cannot ignore the training people have received elsewhere. US Sailing does that. The only reason can be they want to make more money. While the declare, "Our standard is tougher". What does that have to due with meeting a standard that has been clearly defined and refined? That is like MIT saying they are better than Cal Tech or Berkeley. We won't accept your calculus course, you have to take ours. Can't you see how ridiculous that is? The truth is the differences are minor, and US Sailing can't give a sound justification for their policy. Just once I'd like to see US Sailing offer a Safety at Sea seminar for free. They don't do that. They charge for it. I think you could find volunteer instructors that could do a slightly better job than the existing instructors. I studied their sylabus and I remember seeing a hole in it--I can't remember where now. It is insulting to require a course of that nature, and then charge for it. If it were free then more people would be inclined to sit in. The USPS has the right idea there. They keep there costs to a minimum. You pay for books, and their seminars are free. The quality is higher than what US Sailing offers. Trust me I know. The USPS Piloting and Advanced Piloting blow the doors off US Sailing or the ASA's course work. It is like comparing high school to graduate school. All of the USPS textbooks are the best material available on each of their topics. Shouldn't US Sailing accept courses materials like these that are of a higher standard than their own? Their attitude to to develop there own books and charge for them. If they are a non-profit decicated to doing good, why don't the work with the USPS? Unlike US Sailing, the USPS would certainly offer their support and assistance for free. What about a USCG license? That should automatically place people out of many things, and at least abbreviate much of the course requirements for all the basic courses including topics like Navigational Aids, Rules of the Road, etc. A Coast Gurad license completely exceeds the requirements for the Coastal Navigation course. Why is there no committee at US Sailing looking at advanced accreditation for members? : Given the close similarities between ASA and bogUS : Sailing's keelboat programs, do you think ASA : certified instructor need to re-qualify for US Sailing? I don't know anything about the requirements for ASA's keel boat instructors. I've done both and they are virtually identical. For God's sake Steve this is not rocket science! I've seen US Sailing IT's that were afraid to short tack in a marina or God Forbid sail down a channel! I could not believe it. These are the ones with no dingy experience that have weaseled their way up in the organization while having HOLES in there knowledge. Should they me the ones evaluating instructors? Trust me there is more variation between instructors than there is between the courses. If US Sailing will accept instructors and even IT's that are uncomfortable in such situations, how can they deny equivalent courses? : Do you think a high percentage of the IT's should come : from one sailing school? I don't. Doesn't matter as long as they meet the standard. That means one group has not just a greater influence than others, but nearly all the influence. Lets get rid of all the Democrats or all the Republicans. Such control is not healthy and you know it. : Do you think a man who runs a commercial sailing : school should be the training chair? I don't. Who better to understand the training requirements? Would a pencil pusher be better qualified? No, but someone who does not have a profit motivation might be better. Even if they are not biased, it certainly woudl prevent giving that appearance. A community boating director for example would be a better choice. If US Sailing is about doing something for the sport, the commercial side specifically, should not exert undo influence. Would it be appropriate for US Sailing to commerically quash ASA and take over all commercial sailing in the US? What would happen to costs then? One of my beefs is instructors have no say in things. There is no instructor's advocate. And I think this is because of the control exerted by commercial schools. The instructors are expected to be professionals but are not treated as such--no health care for example. School are run like grocery stores. Commerical Sailing Schools keep the hours to less than full time, or make them independent contractors. I worked 152 days out of 161 for Rich. Nine days off in that stretch and I was part-time. No severance, and no bonus when I left. I was #2 in tips, so I was doing something right. I do not rely on instruction for making a living, but some people do. They deserve better. I know one fellow who died of Skin Cancer. I doubt his family got any kind of insurance settlement. Who looks after the sailing instructors? Do you think the sailing schools will if it means money out of their pockets? Oh your have cancer? Where do we send your last check? Do you think their control of key positions at US Sailing will allow for any changes that will benefit sailing instructors as a group if it costs the schools money? : You say there are lots of opportunities for feedback : on the small boat side. Why then is there a gap in the : grievance process in the By-Laws for instructors? Talk to your RTC. I have and supposedly that is changing. I'm skeptical. Have you heard anything? |
Learning to sail the USA way.
I volunteered a few years ago to help out.
Unfortunately the guy who ran it didn't want any help. Now he wants to quit and there is no one who wants to take over cold turkey. I wish I could commit the amount of time needed to run the thing by myself--I just can't do it right now. So what was the CAP like? I've only flown a few times. I did get up in a jet and do acrobatics once when in the Air Force. Very cool, but more nauseating than the Gulf Stream. Say do you know the name of Ralph and Norton's boat on the Honeymooner's? "Joe" wrote Never in the sea scouts, but you're right..I have been skipper of one Sea Scout boat. I was an airman in the C.A.P. |
Learning to sail the USA way.
katy, I took a tow from a boat load of those guys.
The skipper knew his stuff somewhat. The rest were keystone cops. I could not believe they were wearing those extra big heavy lifejackets on a hot flat calm day. It was hilarious. One of them kept pointed to me and telling me to put on my lifejacket. I ignored him. But it was the first clue to making me nervous. I think I told the story earlier. They nearly stove the side of my boat in. "katy" wrote Or people REALLY impressed with themselves... Bart Senior wrote: Warning! While many in the USCGA are sharp seaman. Many more are untrained novices in the "keystone cop" category. |
bogUS Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
: Tell me Steve, do you think a keelboat instructor needs
: to take yet another certification course to teach small : boats? I don't. "NotPony" wrote I do. Most keel boat sailors I know haven't a clue about capsizing or weight placement. Bart Senior wrote: Hahahaha! That is funny. If they don't they'll get wet! I doubt they would have that problem for long. Depends on the sailor. I've literally seen guys get angry and insist that something was wrong with the boat, when putting them into a C-15 or JY after years of sailing 30+' keel boats. ... Why not just turn them loose in a boat for a few days? The principals are the same. They'd pick it up what they need to know quickly. I think that's a good idea, but it could get costly if you turn them loose in a shallow area. One small boat club I was involved with, had 4 boats bend and/or break their masts in one day. After that, club leadership suddenly got serious about demostrating cpasize drills before turning people loose in boats. They also got serious about using mast floats, which I think NotPony's program already is. This club eventually bought mainsails with foam top panels, which I think is an awesome idea. Using these, the boats were *impossible* to turtle under almost any circumstances. Lots of keelboat people have started in dinks! That's true, but then lots of them have also been out of it for years. IMHO your idea about demonstrating the skills makes sense. ... What about them? Should an experience adult have to sit through a boring certification course with a bunch of kids? I'm talking about someone who knows how to sail a Laser, and has completed the instructors clinic for US Sailing, ASA, RYA or the equivalent? What about a guy who has competed in the Olympics on skiff's and has a keelboat instructors certification? Does he have to take the course too? That is the policy now, AND IT MAKES NO SENSE! US Sailing is either stupid and inflexible or else it is purely and simply a functioning on a profit motivation! Well "stupid & inflexible" is the default setting on most organizations consisting of more than 5 people, IMHO. Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
"Bob Crantz" wrote in message . .. you saw all this , and did nothing? SV It was worse than what I described. I did plenty, but to no apparent avail. Time may tell otherwise. That's too bad. If I have a problem with my boss, I wait till we're in bed, then bring it up. Works like a charm! Scotty |
Learning to sail the USA way.
I rather take over cold turkey then deal with the guy for years. It is
a big commitment of time, but well worth the effort. I have taught motorboat handling skills to the Sea Scouts here but just as a guest instructor. I was maybe 11 when in the CAP. It was fun, learned navigation, rock climbing, repelling, ect..ect...We had a cessna but I moved on before I was allowed to even think about getting in the plane. Thats OK my dad was a pilot and we flew most weekends. I think most programs like CAP, SeaScouts, BSA, GSA, Junior Achivement, ect are all great programs that can make all the difference in a kids life. So you got a ride on the vomit comet huh? Joe |
Learning to sail the USA way.
Go look. It's by the big metal building.
Amen! "Joe" wrote in message oups.com... More info please. Joe |
Learning to sail the USA way.
Mys Terry wrote:
Junior High School starts in the 9th grade. Its pretty clear you never got that far. Every junior high school I've heard of started in 6th or 7th grade |
Learning to sail the USA way.
Hit 3.5 negative G's and 4.5 positive in a loop.
Barrel Roll, Aileron Roll, Immelmann. It was great fun cutting a piece out of a cloud. I've watched fighters refuel flying over the Pacific, sat on the flight deck behind and above the pilot while flying over the Grand Canyon to name a few other modest things I've done as an observer. "Joe" wrote I rather take over cold turkey then deal with the guy for years. It is a big commitment of time, but well worth the effort. I have taught motorboat handling skills to the Sea Scouts here but just as a guest instructor. I was maybe 11 when in the CAP. It was fun, learned navigation, rock climbing, repelling, ect..ect...We had a cessna but I moved on before I was allowed to even think about getting in the plane. Thats OK my dad was a pilot and we flew most weekends. I think most programs like CAP, SeaScouts, BSA, GSA, Junior Achivement, ect are all great programs that can make all the difference in a kids life. So you got a ride on the vomit comet huh? Joe |
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