US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

I purposely don't know much about the keelboat
training because I think it's kind of goofy. But,
I'm 100% behind US SAILING's small boat training.
As the director of a sailing center, I require all
my instructors to have SBSI level I and all my
coaches to have level II. I know every aspect of
the training they've received.
I also have a great deal of respect for Rich
Jepsen. He has done well in leading the training
committee in rewriting the level II training and
they are almost done the rewrite of the level I
and Start Sailing Right.
No, US SAILING isn't perfect, but I think it does
well with it's small staff and volunteers.
S.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
:
: "Jean Pudl" wrote
:
: I do wonder how autonomous the "commercial"
sail training committee is.
: The impression I've had (based on little real
evidence) was that it was
: created by and for one group of schools
because they didn't want to pay
: ASA for an "official" piece of paper.
:
: Correct. It started with three school in the SF
Bay area. The Training
: Chairman owns one of these schools. He has
several of the IT's on
: his staff and in his back pocket. He pays there
expenses and owns
: their votes. One of them should be fired from
his position as an IT
: on ethics charges.
:
: I have some hope the Training Chair will
implement some changes.
: However, nearly everything I've discussed with
him has been brushed
: off. I am unwilling to travel to their event at
my expense just to be
: ignored after I'm gone.
:
: I dropped my membership and asked for my
certification money back.
: Which reminds me, I need to write them about
that again. I'll have to
: send it certified mail this time. They gave me a
"screw you" on the
: telephone when last I called them.
:
: Does this make any difference to the student?
Does it make any difference
: to the charter companies?
:
: Nope.
:
: Actually, it seems it only makes a difference
to the instructors who have
: to go through the process of being certified by
one or the other, or both.
: Just curious, when someone pays $400 for a
basic keelboat course, how much
: of that goes back to ASA or USSa?
:
: Schools pay a flat rate for membership. They
have to join to be competitive
: now that the "Certification" paper is what they
are selling. Students feel
: the paper means something and don't understand
it is the skills that are
: important and the paper is meaningless.
:
: Student fees include book costs, tests, and the
log book. I'll can only
: guess what the total is.
:
: Insurance is a muddy issue. Instructor are
forced to pay for insurance.
: This is a scam since the schools already have
insurance. bogUS Sailing
: both claims this fee is both insurance and not
for insurance, but insists
: instructors pay it anyway to be recertified. I
lost my cool over this
: last year. How can they say it is and that it
isn't for insurance? What
: hogwash! I want a written answer on this one.
:
: When I signed up the only requirement for
recertification was up to date
: First Aid and CPR certifications. Now a bogus
insurance fee is attached.
: Again, they say it is not for insurance, but
that is what it pays for--so
: that
: is what it is. Try to get a straight answer out
of them on that one. And
: they won't put and answer down on paper either!
:
:
: As to the "governing body" issue, this is a
byproduct of the Olympic
: Committee process, where one and only one
group (and I assume it must be
: non-profit) must be designated as the
governing body for each sport, and
: is responsible for the Olympic and
Pan-American teams, plus certain other
: functions. For better or worse, USSailing is
the organization the fits
: this role.
:
: I don't think it is perfect, but it works, and
you get something for your
: money--race committees. However, I refuse to
take a Safety at Sea
: seminar from someone who knows less about it
than I, when I know
: the reason they won't place people out of such
things is because of
: the profits they make on these courses. I'd
prefer to race unofficially
: and display a "Boycott USSailing.org" decal on
my boat, and offer to
: take only it off if they pay me.
:
: Did you know someone recently proposed raising
the grievance fee
: to raise more money at US Sailing? How could
they even consider
: such a thing. In the spirit of fairness there
should not be any fee
: associated with filing a grievance! Screw them.
What a bunch of
: asshole. It is clear US Sailing is all about
money, not about improving
: the sport.
:
: I agree with Doug that there is an appearance
that they support
: and recognize certain sailor that are "in".
Those can do no wrong.
: The more awards the heap on them, the more
valuable they are to
: the organization. It's like blowing up a
balloon. There is little to
: back it up but what was already there.
:
: All of the behind the scenes ego trips, back
stabbing, conflicts of
: interest, power plays, pseudo-scandals, etc.
seem to be par for the course
: with large (or small) non-profits. As opposed
to for-profits which have
: the same mishigas, but its called "business."
:
: I disagree. Such an organization should have a
standard of excellence.
:
: I'd prefer to see US Sailing have delegates that
actually represent
: members. If I can sign up 1000 members I could
then represent them
: and fight their agendas. Does anyone want to be
first to sign my list?
: I'd love to battle US Sailing in their den. I'd
love to fight to make them
: change the ridiculous way they operate. They
are so inept.
:
:

US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

Everything you say may be true, but it doesn't change the fact that if
USSailing was torn down and reconstructed today, the most likely
outcome (though certainly not the only possibility) is something very
similar to what we have now.

But a few facts: since USSailing has been around since 1897, what
international rules are you claiming that goes back to the 18th
century? And the last Olympic selection that I followed was 1992 -
that seemed to be on the water (to the chagrin of a friend who had the
flu at a critical regatta); how has that changed?

And I hardly think you can blame any organization for the "decline" of
sailing. You can probably show a more causal relationship with the
the Internet, or cell phones, or sunspots.

US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

Bart,

Unfortunately your experiences are not unique.

I've seen a homeowner's association ruin a person who was building a home
that was not even in their jurisdiction. The association filed numerous
lawsuits against the person, officers of the association tresspassed and
vandalized the construction site, they filed false complaints and in the
end, when it got to court, they weren't even a legally recognized home
owners association.

I've seen a narcissistic boss manipulate employees to work as much overtime
as they would bear (without any form of compensation), routinely expose
workers to ground up silicates (sending one to the hospital) fumes and other
OSHA regulated hazards, not pay people at all, change time cards, lie and
coverup to superiors, give raises in writing but never pay them, run good
people out (40% turnover) and finally push a person into a mental hospital.

These are just two small examples of people losing tens of thousands of
dollars, their pay, their health, their families and their mental health
based upon their homes and jobs.
You're complaing about snooty sailing instructors in a voluntary
association.

As it always will be, positions of power attract the people least desirable
for those positions.

The strongest person is he who stands most alone.

Amen!

bogUS Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

Bart, who is this Navy guy who is now a CP
instructor? Cmdr. Vandenberg is the Director of
the NA's sailing program, and he isn't a CP
instructor. In fact, I don't see anyone in the
list that is associated with the NA.
I don't know about the keelboat side, but in the
small boat training side, there are many
opportunities for the instructors and host site to
be critiqued.
S.

"Bart Senior" .@. wrote in message
...
: "NotPony" wrote
:
: Bart,
: What's your gripe with US SAILING? Sounds
like a
: personal issue.
:
: You have made the correct assumption Steve.
:
: There are lots of reasons I don't like US
Sailing. My blood
: boils when I think about it. They should change
their name
: to bogUS Sailing.
:
: The main issue is a grievance I made to them a
number of
: years ago. US Sailing would not address my
complaint, give
: me a hearing on the matter, schedule a meeting
on the subject,
: or give me the refund I demanded.
:
: They never put anything in writing. If you
check bogUS Sailing's
: By-Laws, there is NO process for instructors to
file grievances.
: It is the singular exception in the grievance
process.
:
: Foolish me! I never thought their management
would want to
: stifle the whole thing. Being a military man, I
did not adapt
: well to civilian life at first. I had come to
expect much better,
: a standard of excellence. I should have taken
more aggressive
: action immediately, but I honestly expected
better of them.
:
: Perhaps at first, bogUS Sailing simply didn't
know how to handle
: my complaint. Later it was probably easier to
ignore me and
: hope I'd go away. Certainly their were forces
within US Sailing
: that wanted to bury the incident and protect
some of the people
: involved.
:
: Here is a brief summary of what happened and how
it started.
:
: I was taking a Coastal Passage Making ( CP)
Instructor
: Certification Course. This would simply allow
me to sign the log
: books of the students I was teaching in this
subject.
:
: During this course, I was harassed, put down,
pushed off balance,
: non-stop for a week simply because I stood up
for my rights on
: the first day. They were unable to bully me
and I think that ****ed
: the lead Instructor Trainer (IT) more than
anything.
:
: It was a clear cut case of bias, and blind
stupidity. One "student"
: happened to be the Naval Academy's Sailing
Program Director.
: He was taking the same course I was taking. From
my perspective
: though, he was another CP Instructor Candidate.
:
: Here is what was going on behind the scenes.
:
: US Sailing wanted to gain credibility. If the
Naval Academy joined
: their training program it would be a big boost
for them. So they
: greased it for this fellow--he was pre-selected
to become an IT, and
: the two ITs running the course, kissed his ass,
made it easy for him,
: didn't evaluate him, and offered him cigars.
Meanwhile I was badgered
: and humiliated, constantly put off balance,
after I simply demanded
: fair and equal rights.
:
: He didn't want or ask for special treatment, yet
he received special
: treatment. I wanted to be treated fairly and
was blasted like a
: target in a shooting gallery and not treated
fairly.
:
: It started with a simple lottery for selecting
berths on the yacht,
: and I was punished for drawing the best
remaining berth.
:
: The IT announced he was taking the best cabin
and told us to
: decide amongst ourselves how to divide up the
other berths.
: We gave the one woman aboard the V-berth, and
the rest of the
: group decided to use a lottery format. I was
lucky and drew the
: aft port cabin. The Navy guy got the
comfortable dinette berth
: and the last guy drew the uncomfortable berth.
:
: After making a big deal about letting us chose
our own methods
: of assigning bunks, the lead IT now told me I
should cede my bunk
: to the Navy guy--even though he had announced
loudly that he was
: perfectly happy with the dinette berth he drew.
I declined the
: suggestion. We drew lots--the matter was closed
as far as I was
: concerned.
:
: Next I was taken aside privately in the
clubhouse, this time by both
: IT's. They sat me down in a tiny room isolated
from the others.
: This time the second instructor started
pressuring me to cede my
: bunk to the Navy guy. I pointed out we were
both students. He
: agreed. I stated I had equal right to the
cabin, drew it in a fair
: lottery. He stated I could make that point. He
still said I should
: give up my cabin but did not give me any valid
reason to do so.
:
: I refused to give it up. I fault myself for not
going on the offense
: at this point. Frankly I was confused about why
they made an issue
: of it. We followed the lead IT's suggestion to
chose our own
: method. It worked for us, so why did they care?
It made no sense
: to me, put me off balance, and was the beginning
of my confusion
: over the whole event.
:
: Can you believe this sort of nonsense would
happen? I laugh when
: I think about it. You just can't make this
stuff up!
:
: The Lead IT was English. You know how the
English love their
: royalty. I think he viewed the Navy guy, who
was an O-6
: (Navy rank of Captain in the Reserves) as
royalty. That was
: exactly they way he was treated--like royalty.
:
: Starting from that point the lead IT had it in
for me. He made the
: course into a daily hell for me. Any task I was
assigned included
: harassment, distraction, disruption, and rude
patronizing comments.
: How could I focus on the tasks at hand when I
was constantly
: fighting down the urge to push the guy
overboard? I'm an easy
: going guy. To set me off it takes a lot, and I
was constantly being
: push to the edge of my tolerance.
:
: It seemed clear to me from the start the lead IT
meant to flunk me
: one way or another. His strategy worked. He
did put me off and
: my performance suffered. Right off the bat, I
blew two backed in
: docking approaches when he made sudden
distracting motions at
: the most critical instant of the maneuver. The
slips were a little
: tight--no sweat going in forward, but a narrow
alleyway, and a
: wide transom meant it had to be perfect to make
it in.
:
: When I fought back, he piled on me harder. I
spent much of my
: time thinking about where the next shot would
come, rather than
: the task at hand.
:
: I could go on and on with you tons of examples.
I was dinged
: for not motoring down the exact center of max
ebb of the Golden
: Gate while the other boat sailed within a
biscuit toss of the rocks on
: the south side. Another time I brought the boat
into the dock as
: perfectly as it could possibly be done. It was
a beautiful thing. So
: what happened? I was dinged for shutting down
the engine before
: my three hands on the dock, holding me in
position had cleated us
: off. Talk about overkill. Three dock lines and
the boat was stationary!
: There was no forward motion, no current, and no
wind. Where was
: this coming from? A book? I felt sure this guy
have never docked
: under sail as it is not a big deal. I've sailed
larger boats into slips in
: such light conditions.
:
: It was do this, do that, how come you haven't
done this, while the
: other guy had no pressure, a crew to help him,
and GPS navigation
: I was kept off balance constantly. The bottom
line is I was set up
: to flunk. And that is what they did to me.
:
: The fellow who was head of the Naval Academy's
sailing program
: became an IT shortly after he completed the
course. He later
: changed my status to passing. That was nice of
him, however, as
: I thought about it, it ****ed me off further! I
guess US Sailing
: thought I'd be satisfied. No. The root problem
remained and was
: never addressed.
:
: I have seen all sorts of things like this happen
in other IT clinics.
: I have little respect for the US Sailing IT's
because they have no
: quality control function to check
unprofessional, or incorrect
: behavior of the IT's. Without a feedback
process that eliminates
: and culls, rude, poor performing, or unfair
IT's, the training program
: will remain mediocre at best.
:
: US Sailing's Training Program is run by a few
sailing schools, who
: put their own people in positions of power and
together they control
: the training program for their own financial
benefit and to satisfy their
: own egos and agendas. Some IT's are protected
by virtue of the
: relationships they hold with the sailing
schools. People so entrenched
: cannot be dislodged. The cure is to turn them
over and create a
: standards based process with performance
feedback and the real
: possibility that an IT will be removed and
replaced with someone
: better and more qualified.
:
: What is left for me to do regarding bogUS
Sailing? I'm thinking
: about writing some editorials. US Sailing does
not deserve our
: support. They do not deserve the
quasi-governmental position
: they have, and they do not deserve being granted
an unfair
: competitive advantage over the American Sailing
Association.
:
: I have been looking for an independent film
topic and it suddenly
: occurred to me, my story would make a great
topic for a film.
:
: The film "Open Water" cost only $120,000 to make
and grossed
: $52 million. Panasonic makes a nice HD video
camera for
: about $10k. I think my story would be a winner.
Most people don't
: understand sailing, but they do understand,
assholes with power,
: bias, harassment, and conflict.
:
: There is a lot more to my story. It would make
a great screenplay--
: easy to shoot, small cast, one or two boats and
few props. The
: stupid close-minded Englishman would make a
great character study
: that you would love to hate.
:
: What would be a good title for the movie? My
idea for a title is
: "Contempt" or maybe "Five Sailors, One Asshole,
and a Cover-Up".
:
:
:
:
:
:

US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

Jean Pudl wrote:
But a few facts: since USSailing has been around since 1897

Excuse me?

That is not a fact.

U.S. Sailing is the successor organization to NAYRU and USYRU.

... what
international rules are you claiming that goes back to the 18th
century?

Heck, starboard tack right of way goes back to the Vikings.

... And the last Olympic selection that I followed was 1992 - that
seemed to be on the water (to the chagrin of a friend who had the flu at
a critical regatta); how has that changed?


Actually that selection was a last-minute change but it
didn't work out the way they thought it would. I am sorry
for your friend, I think I know who it is. Didn't the
selection in this case come down to a single light-air race?

Since then, they have changed the process and made it
secret, then published the rules, then made exceptions to
the rules, etc etc.


And I hardly think you can blame any organization for the "decline" of
sailing. You can probably show a more causal relationship with the the
Internet, or cell phones, or sunspots.

If there had been video games when I was a kid, I would not
have been interested in sailing either.

But as "the official governing body for the sport of
sailing" don't you think USSA should have a better idea what
to do about it, instead of shrugging & saying 'oh well'?

DSK

US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 01:10:59 GMT, "Capt.Mooron"

wrote:


"Mys Terry" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:47:39 GMT, "Capt.Mooron"

wrote:

Nice Smack Down Doug!!!
:-)

CM


Smack down? It was a lengthy WHINE. Poor Doug lost some races, and of
course HE
couldn't be responsible! It must be those mean old US Sailing people.
What
a
simpering wimp!

He smacked himself down with that one, Mooron.


Just out of Curiosity?? Since when... pray tell.... did you become
delusional enough to believe your opinion matters??

Seriously?!!!

CM


It appears it mattered to you, Guy!

Aw Sheesh... now you're all hurt again aren't you..... you really should
get a thicker skin Billy! These tantrums you throw don't go far in according
your opinions any merit. Now go take a "time-out" in the corner until you've
thought this through.

This fricken' geriatric infantile behaviour of yours is wearing thin.....

CM

Learning to sail the USA way.
 

Is there some type of volunteer sail organization much like the Citizens'
Auxiliary Police that aid the Coast Guard?

Jay Santos

bogUS Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

NotPony wrote:
I don't know about the keelboat side, but in the
small boat training side, there are many
opportunities for the instructors and host site to
be critiqued.
S.

Some years ago I got involved in the Level 1 and 2 Dinghy
Instructor program, which was pretty neat... being run by
much younger people, for one thing... it was expensive to
get them to come & do a course but the intructional talent,
organization, and dedication to the sport were good.

DSK

US Sailing is NOT the governing body of the sport.
 

AMEN

"Bob Crantz" wrote

The strongest person is he who stands most alone.

Amen!

Learning to sail the USA way.
 

Jay Santos wrote:
Is there some type of volunteer sail organization much like the Citizens'
Auxiliary Police that aid the Coast Guard?

Jay Santos



The Coast Guard Auxiliary...