This the first time I have ever seriously perused a list of many PHRF
ratings and Robs boat really isnt that fast compared to some, even if
you consider size it isnt exceptional. It isnt a slug but isnt a
rocket either. My old S2 is about where I would expect compared to
other simialr size racer cruisers of its time, a tad batter than most
but nothing I'd ever notice. I expected the Morgan OI to be so slow as
to not even be on the list but an OI 33 is about 222. Even the
supposedly really good Norsea27 is considered to be slow but it is
really more cruiser. Apparently, there are some really fast boats out
there but I bet they would make lousy cruisers. I am sure all of you
know this but this is the first time I have ever seen an extensive list
of phrf (mostly due to lack of interest).

This the first time I have ever seriously perused a list of many PHRF
ratings and Robs boat really isnt that fast compared to some, even if
you consider size it isnt exceptional.

That's 100% correct, but it's very fast considering the interior it
has. A C&C 34 R is faster than my boat...and has an awful interior.
It's certainly not going to be a nice family boat. Very few boats have
such nice interiors and roomy cockpits couple with such speed.
Certainlly nothing from Catalina, Pearson, J-Boat, Tartan or Sabre can
compare. On the other hand C&C released the 34XL in the late 80's and
it's a bit faster and also has a nice cabin and deck layout. Other than
that, the 35s5 was pretty much alone in the market when new. Most boats
failed to match her until the late 90's and the current 1st series is
still pretty much alone at the price point.
On the other hand, your S2 is slower than quite a few boats with better
comfort below and superior deck layouts. PHRF of 191 is laughable. I'll
rate 128 here and deep keel versions rate 114. My boat is as fast as a
Swan 36 and that's fast enough. Your boat is a bit faster than an Oday
27...and that's no fun at all.
BTW, the C&C was my #1 choice, but we couldn't find a good one and not
many are around. It has all of the same features of the 35s5 and is
even faster, but it's deep draft would have been a problem. A few
centerboards were built...very rare.
Man...are you ever in a glass house!


RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...

That's 100% correct, but it's very fast considering the interior it
has.

Is it fast considering it's color too?

. Very few boats have
such nice interiors and roomy cockpits couple with such speed.

Such speed! 4 knots vs 3 knots! Such speed! I believe the correct word is
speed differential. How do you get the bottom paint to stay on at such
speed?

On the other hand, your S2 is slower than quite a few boats with better
comfort below and superior deck layouts. PHRF of 191 is laughable.

Such speed! The acceleration will cause the retinas to bleed! If speed is so
important, get a motor boat. Such speed!

I'll
rate 128 here and deep keel versions rate 114. My boat is as fast as a
Swan 36 and that's fast enough.

Is any faster going to exceed the human body's limits of speed? It's not
fast enough, obviously. Others own boats faster than Swan 36's.


Your boat is a bit faster than an Oday
27...and that's no fun at all.

And your boat is also a bit faster than an Oday 27.


Man...are you ever in a glass house!

You should look at the man in the glass.



RB
35s5
NY

wrote:
This the first time I have ever seriously perused a list of many PHRF
ratings and Robs boat really isnt that fast compared to some, even if
you consider size it isnt exceptional. It isnt a slug but isnt a
rocket either. My old S2 is about where I would expect compared to
other simialr size racer cruisers of its time, a tad batter than most
but nothing I'd ever notice.

Well, you'd notice if the boats were alongside. However, the
ratings assume the boats are well sailed, well prepared (ie
not lugging around tons of cruising gear, good sails, smooth
bottom, etc etc), and tuned up. Most boats could not sail to
their PHRF rating without a fair amount of money & work
being expended on them.


... I expected the Morgan OI to be so slow as
to not even be on the list but an OI 33 is about 222.

Any boat that gets raced often enough for numbers to be
submitted to a local handicapping committee should be on the
list.

..... Even the
supposedly really good Norsea27 is considered to be slow but it is
really more cruiser. Apparently, there are some really fast boats out
there but I bet they would make lousy cruisers.

Depends on what you want in a cruiser. Modern designs can be
startling fast and provide a fair amount of room, but one
thing that is guaranteed to slow a boat down is weight. The
modern speedsters tend to be bouncy rides. And if you start
adding hot& cold pressure water, expanded battery bank, etc
etc, for all those little home-like comforts, it doesn't go
faster.

.... I am sure all of you
know this but this is the first time I have ever seen an extensive list
of phrf (mostly due to lack of interest).


One of the cool things about sailing is that it is so many
different sports in one.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

It still sounds a lot like "My snail is faster than yours"

I care so little about phrf that I put on a fixed 3 bladed prop.

I have a 4:1 gear reduction and three blade.

Amen!

wrote in message
ups.com...
I care so little about phrf that I put on a fixed 3 bladed prop.

wrote:
I care so little about phrf that I put on a fixed 3 bladed prop.


That could actually help, if it was the right prop.

The nature of PHRF ratings & racing is basically perverted &
backwards... the goal of the individual sailor is to have a
boat that is faster than it's rating (like *all* rating
systems), not to have a fast boat. It doesn't matter if the
boat is a snail, for the purpose of racing under handicap,
as long as it's rating puts it ahead of the competition.
It's a numbers game.

Some handicap (rating) systems use a complex system of
measurements of the hull & rig, the newest twist on this is
to use a "secret" Velocity Prediciton Program on a fancy
computer. The way the PHRF system works is that the boat is
a assigned a number which factors how many seconds behind
another boat it can be, and still beat that boat. So lower
numbers = faster... somewhat counterintuitive... and the
number is subject to review at the end of the season. Thus,
a boat raced under PHRF that consistently wallops everybody
would have it's rating adjusted downward until the rating
reflected it's actual performance, thus making the race more
"fair."

There are tables of corrections for ratings, obviously
adding a 3-blade prop makes it slower so you would get some
time added to your rating... but if you add a very small
3-blade prop with very high pitch, then it might not slow
you down as much as the rating allows for, so you gain an
advantage. See?

This kind of game is one reason why I can't bring myself to
take PHRF racing seriously. It can be a lot of fun, but
one-design racing is a sailing competition.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

This kind of game is one reason why I can't bring myself to
take PHRF racing seriously. It can be a lot of fun, but
one-design racing is a sailing competition.


You're gonna upset Sloco with such talk. We're im touch with 2 other
35s5's in our area. The only meaningful racing would be against them.

RB
35s5
NY

wrote in message
oups.com...
This the first time I have ever seriously perused a list of many PHRF
ratings and Robs boat really isnt that fast compared to some, even if
you consider size it isnt exceptional. It isnt a slug but isnt a
rocket either. My old S2 is about where I would expect compared to
other simialr size racer cruisers of its time, a tad batter than most
but nothing I'd ever notice. I expected the Morgan OI to be so slow as
to not even be on the list but an OI 33 is about 222. Even the
supposedly really good Norsea27 is considered to be slow but it is
really more cruiser. Apparently, there are some really fast boats out
there but I bet they would make lousy cruisers. I am sure all of you
know this but this is the first time I have ever seen an extensive list
of phrf (mostly due to lack of interest).

There are actually some failry fast cruising boats out there.

Tartan 37, for example. If you google it, look for Tartan 37-2. Quality
build, skeg hung rudder, cruiser bits like a pilot berth.

John Cairns