"DSK" wrote in message
...
Education drives unions and low skilled labor away. Send jobs for
the ignorant to China

Right , you think the Chinese are stupid and un-educated?


Bob Crantz wrote:
As long as they stay in factory jobs.


Not everybody in China works in a factory!

Some work in restaraunts! Or pulling rickshaws!



Your in for a rude awakening, I know of many high tech products being
designed on US software by Chinese optical engineers in china for US
made products. Why pay a Phd or Master's degreed engineer here 150K
when you can find one in China for 30K.


The only postgrad engineers I know of making $150K are ones
on the Board of Directors of the companies they work for.

Or own their own company.


Joe, you're dreaming again.


Engineers in the US don't make 150K with either a PhD or Masters. In
fact,
engineers salaries remain pretty flat after 5 years. So what are these
high
tech products? What is the software?

I'd like to know, too.
I know a number of Chinese engineers who are moving back to
China because they can make more money there.

I also know of engineers who left the country for higher pay and better
working conditions.





Look at America's highest paid groups:

Movie stars/ entertainers: generally high school education, only Bill
Cosby
has PhD.

Athletes: college educated, usually in some goof ball major.

Corporate CEO's : some are educated, Bill Gates did not finish college.
Education is not really a factor.

So why would someone who is smart want to work so hard for relatively so
little? An experienced engineer may make 1.5 - 2 times what the UPS guy
makes with no overtime pay and work 60 hours/week. An
entertainer/athlete/CEO makes 10-500 times what an engineer makes for
the
same work hours.

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Hmmm, an interesting conclusion.

The pay is low because the supply is great. The claims of engineer shortage
is misleading. There are plenty of engineers. The shortage is of ones that
are real cheap.

Look through the engineering ads. How often do you see one asking for 20-30
years experience? 99% want entry level or 5-7 years tops.

It's the employers that cry about shortages. They don't want to pay and they
don't want to (God forbid!) invest in training or education.

If there were less engineers and scientists, there would be less
unemployment.




DSK

America needs less engineers and scientists.

Hmmm, an interesting conclusion.


Bob Crantz wrote:
The pay is low because the supply is great. The claims of engineer shortage
is misleading. There are plenty of engineers. The shortage is of ones that
are real cheap.


The shortage is of *good* ones that will work cheaply enough
to convince an army of beancounters to keep work here in the
U.S.


Look through the engineering ads. How often do you see one asking for 20-30
years experience? 99% want entry level or 5-7 years tops.


Honestly don't know, I am lucky enough to have not needed to
look for a job in years. In fact over a decade now, a
personal record


It's the employers that cry about shortages. They don't want to pay and they
don't want to (God forbid!) invest in training or education.


That's true.

If there were less engineers and scientists, there would be less
unemployment.


Also true if there were less people. And we know how to
solve that, don't we!

DSK