OzOne wrote
Just goes to show US Govt learns absolutely nothing by its mistakes.
The attack on Pearl Harbour was very evident to all who had their eyes
open and were not lulled by the percieved invincibility of the mighty
USofA.

911 was exactly the same....and with approximately the same number of
casualties

Fortunately after Pearl, the US had an enemy and a leadership.

After 911, you had a flock of chickens chasing anything that moved.

You may or may not be right Oz. I think the anwer will come from future
historians. The chapter on Iraq is still being written.
Scout

"Scout" wrote
The chapter on Iraq is still being written.

True, but indications are we are in deep trouble.

Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were afraid
to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the edge of
the world - never mind that ancient Egyptians and Greeks had not only
determined that Earth was round but estimated its diameter. Israel almost
died abirthing when Jewish fundamentalists demanded that the rest stop
defending themselves for Sabbath (Fortunately they didn't listen).
Scientists know that the Earth will become another Easter Island if we do
not limit population but only the "Godless Communists" in China are doing
so. Here in the US faith is triumphing over logic and common sense and we
are poised to again outlaw birth control and abortion.

We encouraged Muslim fundamentalism because it was primarily directed at
'Godless Communism' and the USSR in Afghanistan. Now that buzzard has come
home to roost.

Saddam was ruthless dictator but a secular Muslim. As such, he opposed the
Islamic fundamentalists in Iran and Afghanistan. When religious
fundamentalists among Iraq's Shiite sect turned on him, at the behest of
like extremists in Iran, he murdered them, filling mass graves - then went
to war with fundamentalist Iran. And when bin Laden and his al Qaeda
fighters tapped Saddam for money and training camps he not only refused but
began systematically killing anyone associated with them caught in Iraq
(Zuqari survived hidden by Saddams' own son). Iraq had long claimed that
Kuwait was Iraqi property and invaded it, largely to recoup the costs of war
with extremist Iran. This unsettled other Arab nations, who thought they
might b next. So, the UN, led by the USA put a stop to this adventure - and
ordered Saddam to get rid of any WMDs that he had previously had and used.
Up til then, he had as legit a right to them as, say, Israel.

The "invasion" of the "Holy Peninsula" and the killing of Muslims by the
"army of infidels" that freed Kuwait infuriated Muslim fundamentalists. Bin
Ladin himself says that is why his army of religious nutcases attacked the
USA and other countries, including the 9-11 attacks.

For reasons nobody understands, George Bush Jr attacked Iraq to depose
Saddam. Saddam no longer had any WMDs and, except for paying widows
pensions to Palestinians attacking Israel, took no part in terrorism. He and
bin Ladin were bitter enemies over his refusal to help al Qaeda. And he was
eager to sell all the oil he could pump. So why - to establish a western
democracy in the region??

That might have worked if we'd sent enough troops to lock down all the ammo
dumps, banks, museums and other places that got looted, and to capture the
al Qaeda terrorists fleeing the Afghan tribesmen via Iran, but we did not.
So with Saddam gone they found a nice home and are killing two or three
Americans every day.

Progress? Predictably, Shiite fundamentalists elected a big plurality in
the new assembly and in turn devised a new constitution that will give Iraq
a democracy, but not a western democracy. Oh no, it's one just like Iran's,
where the people elect a powerless parliament and the country is run by -
guess what - religious fundamentalists friendly to al Qaeda and other fundy
terrorists!! And next month they will elect their parliament and it will
appoint the fundamentallist mullahs who will rule thereafter.

But, as Scout says, that chapter has yet to be written. But I'd bet on the
fundies ......

"Vito" wrote in message
...
Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were
afraid
to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the edge
of
the world

I think that you will find that the church was in agreement with the
scientific community at the time.


Apart from that small disagreement, I would like to congratulate you on a
brilliant post!


Regards


Donal
--

Donal wrote:
"Vito" wrote in message
...

Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were

afraid

to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the edge

of

the world


I think that you will find that the church was in agreement with the
scientific community at the time.


Yes. They both agreed the world was round, just like Aristotle told
them.

Vito wrote:
"Scout" wrote

The chapter on Iraq is still being written.


True, but indications are we are in deep trouble.

Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were afraid
to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the edge of
the world - never mind that ancient Egyptians and Greeks had not only
determined that Earth was round but estimated its diameter.

Nonsense. Everyone (except apparently Columbus) thought that China
was simply too far away.

Israel almost
died abirthing when Jewish fundamentalists demanded that the rest stop
defending themselves for Sabbath (Fortunately they didn't listen).

More nonsense. There may have been such fundamentalists, but the
chances that anyone would listen to them on that point was about zero.
Remember the original fighters were secular Jews, not ultra-orthodox.

Scientists know that the Earth will become another Easter Island if we do
not limit population but only the "Godless Communists" in China are doing
so.

Yet more nonsense. The world population is already leveling off.
Many countries are slowing dramatically, and the only countries
showing long term growth are in Africa and the sub-continent. It
won't be long before the population of Japan exceeds Russia, for instance.

Here in the US faith is triumphing over logic and common sense and we
are poised to again outlaw birth control and abortion.

time will tell ...

"Jeff" wrote in message
...
Vito wrote:
Religious fundamentalism is the enemy of all mankind. Europeans were
afraid
to explore west because the church told them they would sail off the
edge of
the world - never mind that ancient Egyptians and Greeks had not only
determined that Earth was round but estimated its diameter.

Nonsense. Everyone (except apparently Columbus) thought that China
was simply too far away.

Please cite where round Earth was official church position vs square with
four corners.

Israel almost
died abirthing when Jewish fundamentalists demanded that the rest stop
defending themselves for Sabbath (Fortunately they didn't listen).

More nonsense. There may have been such fundamentalists, but the
chances that anyone would listen to them on that point was about zero.
Remember the original fighters were secular Jews, not ultra-orthodox.

Nonsense only because you don't want to hear it. You admit there were such
fundies. Obviously few listened (Jews won didn't they) but what if they had
listened? Makes my point - fundies were worse enemies than Arabs were.

Scientists know that the Earth will become another Easter Island if we
do
not limit population but only the "Godless Communists" in China are
doing
so.

Yet more nonsense. The world population is already leveling off.

http://www.census.gov/main/www/popclock.html

An additional 60 million/yr is leveling off???