Capt.Mooron wrote:
Again... it seems like the vessel was ill prepared to provide for it's
crew. Warmth and nourishment to maintain the body are a real requirement
in a heavy sea.

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!

I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing
the man or his boat or his habits with it, but it does sound
like he wasn't ready for this trip in this kind of weather.




Putting the rail in shouldn't be bad. Why the trouble
controlling course? That is an indication of something
either going wrong or about to go wrong.

I disagree there Doug.... I don't think that way in a rough sea....
rail in the water is fine at times.... but it is totally uncalled for in
rough conditions. It seems as if proper trim was not established.


What are you saying, you don't like the boat to lean over?
You wimp!

About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have
had trouble keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced
sail plan. A staysail eould have been a better choice than
the tip of a rolled-up genoa.



From a summary viewpoint... he had equipment failure that may have been
prevented. He did not rig his vessel to undertake the sea conditions and
did not have adequate means of keeping himself warm and dry while in the
elements.


Agreed.

From sailing in cold and rough conditions for many years it is
paramount to never underestimate what you may encounter.

Agreed.

... Warm dry
clothing for such and even worse conditions are available. Proper
outfitting of the vessel to provide hot coffee underway in almost any
seastate is critical.

Agreed yet again, but it's expensive. A lot of people "just
make do" with lesser gear & clothing, which is OK as long as
you're not going to test it too rigorously or throw very
high stakes on the table if they fail (and IMHO hypothermia
is a big gamble)

... Double checking all gear prior to departure is
extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the
time. WTF is wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a
fin keeler!


If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!

Although I surprisingly do not encourage the use of alcohol in very rough
conditions... I have been known to take a swig of "Liquid Courage" during
exceptioanally difficult situations.

I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing the man or his
boat or his habits with it, but it does sound like he wasn't ready for
this trip in this kind of weather.

The story speaks for itself Doug.... he was cold and wet... no reason for
either condition.


What are you saying, you don't like the boat to lean over? You wimp!

There are times when it's fun..... but it does not provide power nor does it
benifit ground made good. When in heavy seas.. I would lean towards
minimizing green water and stress on the rig.


About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have had trouble
keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced sail plan. A staysail eould
have been a better choice than the tip of a rolled-up genoa.

Without a doubt a hank on sail is a much better choice to maintain
sailshape.


Agreed yet again, but it's expensive. A lot of people "just make do" with
lesser gear & clothing, which is OK as long as you're not going to test it
too rigorously or throw very high stakes on the table if they fail (and
IMHO hypothermia is a big gamble)

It's a mistake... since you can outfit yourself completely for the cost of
a radar. I can't understand how people can go to sea and not be comfortable
at the helm in foul weather.


... Double checking all gear prior to departure is extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the time. WTF is
wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a fin keeler!

Even a fin keeler should have aced that situation had the crew been dry,
warm and suficently nourished to maintain the pace required by the vessel.

If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?

That's called a Bobsprit....

CM

Exactly. And alcohol has useful calories, remember that!


Capt.Mooron wrote:
Although I surprisingly do not encourage the use of alcohol in very rough
conditions... I have been known to take a swig of "Liquid Courage" during
exceptioanally difficult situations.


Alcohol is also a short term stimulant, but a depressant if
you track it's effects for more than about 10 minutes. If
you have both watches on deck, and a difficult or strenuous
maneuver to tackle, issue a tot of grog to the ones who will
be going off watch as soon as they're done... they'll leap
into the fray with great energy, then go & sleep soundly below.

The trick is to do this without the guys staying on deck get
mad because they're not getting their share. If you have
stocked awful tasting booze and can pass them mugs of flat
"Jolt" soda without them wising up, you're golden!


I'd hesitate to call the vessel "ill-prepared" not knowing the man or his
boat or his habits with it, but it does sound like he wasn't ready for
this trip in this kind of weather.


The story speaks for itself Doug.... he was cold and wet... no reason for
either condition.


Wet can be hard to avoid... cold can be inevitable in the
short term, but the boat *must* have provision to recover
from both or the voyage will be short & miserable.

As I've always said, once you're out of dry towels, the
cruise is over.



About proper trim, maybe so... one reason why he may have had trouble
keeping the boat on course is from unbalanced sail plan. A staysail eould
have been a better choice than the tip of a rolled-up genoa.


Without a doubt a hank on sail is a much better choice to maintain
sailshape.


Nah, a luff foil.



... Double checking all gear prior to departure is extremely important.


Agreed, and that doesn't cost anything.

Damn it, this is no way to run a newsgroup, agreeing all the time. WTF is
wrong with you? Go ahead, say it, the man had a fin keeler!


Even a fin keeler should have aced that situation had the crew been dry,
warm and suficently nourished to maintain the pace required by the vessel.

If you live through it and learn from it.. it's adventure.


What is it if you live thru it and don't learn?


That's called a Bobsprit....


No, that's if you live thru it and others wish you hadn't.

DSK

I emailed him back and asked him to call be
before I left for the Thanksgiving. He did call
me back and told me he decided NOT to sail
the ditch this year. I was pleased because
that is the advice I was going to give him. I
suggested he spend more time getting to
know the boat and perfecting his systems
learning all the harbors in Long Island Sound
and getting more experience in places like
Maine, Shelter Island, and the Vineyard. It
turns out he does have 90 and 100% jibs. I
have no clue why he was not using the 90.

To his credit, he dived on the boat himself
yesterday and cleared the fouled prop. Not
bad for a man nearly 60. You would not
catch me diving this time of year and I have
a 7mm wet suit!

My other friend is sailing to Bermuda on
Sunday--I'm a little concerned because I'm
not sure he is up for it. He does not know
how to use his SSB, but he does have a Sat
Phone. This will be his "final exam" as a
sailor. Another case of leaving to late, although
that will not matter once he crosses the Gulf
Stream--it will be shorts and T-shirt weather.

At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.

Bart

Well said Bart....

CM

"Bart Senior" wrote in message

At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.

Bart

"Bart Senior" wrote
At some point you reach a level of experience
where you know what you are getting into and
still decide to go forward. It is a second coming
of age that most people never reach.


Yep. It's a jumping-off point, a leap of faith (faith
tempered by knowledge, of course).

The key is to build up experience & skills consistently and
remain aware of your limits, and those of of your vessel &
crew. A lot of people have been sailing for years, but
really have not expanded their experience beyond anything a
relative novice would encounter. We call this the "20 years
of experience versus 1 year of experience repeated 20 times"
syndrome.


Capt.Mooron wrote:
Well said Bart....


Dang it, there you go agreeing again!

DSK

"DSK" wrote

The key is to build up experience & skills consistently and remain aware
of your limits, and those of of your vessel & crew. A lot of people have
been sailing for years, but really have not expanded their experience
beyond anything a relative novice would encounter. We call this the "20
years of experience versus 1 year of experience repeated 20 times"
syndrome.

I meet people like that all the time. I was speaking to a
group of skippers at a club meeting a few years ago.
My point was obvious, the best way to learn to sail is on
small boats. One fellow was very vocal about that not
being true. He'd only been sailing a few years, mostly on
one 32 boat. He had very limited experience and would not admit it.