"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Fine. Let's calculate an example. Let's say that a Beneteau 35s5 is
going
for $64k and you have a down payment of 10%. Show me how you are going
to
save money, or at least not lose any, by financing the boat. We'll
assume
you have sufficient money in relatively liquid assets to purchase the
boat
outright.

Wow. Max, you don't know much about money do you? Many people can make
more money with a 64K cash investment spent elsewhere that would easily
outrun the losses for financing the boat.

Really? Show me--and I won't take your opinion for fact. I'd like to see
some hard evidence. Most boat loans are going to be in the 6-9% category
(probably at the high end for Jon), and I doubt if you can do better than
that investing the same amount of money in low-risk paper. My tax-deferred
municipal bonds are producing less than 5% currently, and they never exceed
the going consumer loan rates. I cite munis because they are the most
secure investments I have. CDs are generally doing about 4% or less, and
relatively low-risk mutuals aren't doing a whole lot better, but these are
probably going to come closer to the banks' consumer loan rates than any
other investment. And they are far from risk-free. 2001-2003.

Unless you plan to keep her
forever, you're only "leasing" her in effect anway. Why hand over the
entire amount if you plan to trade up anyway in 5 years? In our case we
bought the boat outright, but there were serious financial profile
factors to consider as well for us.

Whatever.

Max

Really? Show me--and I won't take your opinion for fact. I'd like to
see
some hard evidence.


You must be joking. We bought in on a 4 way for a 6 unit building in
Brooklyn 6 years ago. Our investment on that was only 50K cash. The
property was sold last year for 20 times what we paid, plus a nice tax
benefit for restoring a 90 year old building. So in 6 years we did far
better than if we'd used that same money to buy a boat outright,
assuming we could have only done one. There are many deals like that in
real estate. It makes little sense to pay in full for something you
won't keep for a long long time...such as a boat.

RB
35s5
NY

Max is location impaired.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com...
Really? Show me--and I won't take your opinion for fact. I'd like to
see
some hard evidence.


You must be joking. We bought in on a 4 way for a 6 unit building in
Brooklyn 6 years ago. Our investment on that was only 50K cash. The
property was sold last year for 20 times what we paid, plus a nice tax
benefit for restoring a 90 year old building. So in 6 years we did far
better than if we'd used that same money to buy a boat outright,
assuming we could have only done one. There are many deals like that in
real estate. It makes little sense to pay in full for something you
won't keep for a long long time...such as a boat.

RB
35s5
NY

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message

Really? Show me--and I won't take your opinion for fact. I'd like to
see
some hard evidence.


You must be joking. We bought in on a 4 way for a 6 unit building in
Brooklyn 6 years ago.

A disaster in the making.

Our investment on that was only 50K cash. The
property was sold last year for 20 times what we paid, plus a nice tax
benefit for restoring a 90 year old building.

Uh huh. We're supposed to accept your claim that your gross yield was
$1million? Whatever.

So in 6 years we did far
better than if we'd used that same money to buy a boat outright,
assuming we could have only done one. There are many deals like that in
real estate. It makes little sense to pay in full for something you
won't keep for a long long time...such as a boat.

Two years ago I bought some land along Lake Michigan for $200K and sold it
this summer for well over two million dollars.

Oh wait, I just made that up. Like you.

Real estate speculation of the nature you describe is highly risky and
seldom pays off the way you claim it did. Being in the right place at the
right time is great, if you have a crystal ball or a clairvoyant aunt. More
often the costs involved with such speculation eat the investor alive and
mitigate any possibility of a decent return. For the average person, such a
lofty return on investment is simply not in the stars. For the average
person, the investment opportunities available, whether real estate or
paper, won't return anything near the interest rate paid on a boat loan.

Max

Our investment on that was only 50K cash. The
property was sold last year for 20 times what we paid, plus a nice tax
benefit for restoring a 90 year old building.


Maxprop wrote:
Uh huh. We're supposed to accept your claim that your gross yield was
$1million? Whatever.


Of course you're supposed to accept without questioning, or
even thinking! See, once you actually consider the
Boobster's claims in the light of any tiny slice of reality,
it falls apart.




Two years ago I bought some land along Lake Michigan for $200K and sold it
this summer for well over two million dollars.

Oh wait, I just made that up. Like you.


Might as well have been 3 mill, then.

Shucks I bought IBM stock at $35 a share, kept it for two
years during which time it not only went up to $90 but
split, while paying a 4% dividend, then I not only sold it
all but shorted twice as much... guess how much that netted?

Real estate speculation of the nature you describe is highly risky and
seldom pays off the way you claim it did. Being in the right place at the
right time is great, if you have a crystal ball or a clairvoyant aunt. More
often the costs involved with such speculation eat the investor alive and
mitigate any possibility of a decent return. For the average person, such a
lofty return on investment is simply not in the stars. For the average
person, the investment opportunities available, whether real estate or
paper, won't return anything near the interest rate paid on a boat loan.


Yep, think about it... why would the bank loan you money at
X% if it was a sure thing they could earn X+% on these
wonderful real estate deals? There are very few REITs paying
over 8.5% nowadays, and there are a few that specialize in
rehab real estate.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:

Two years ago I bought some land along Lake Michigan for $200K and sold
it this summer for well over two million dollars.

Oh wait, I just made that up. Like you.


Might as well have been 3 mill, then.

On second thought it *was* $3M.


Shucks I bought IBM stock at $35 a share, kept it for two years during
which time it not only went up to $90 but split, while paying a 4%
dividend, then I not only sold it all but shorted twice as much... guess
how much that netted?

Not knowing how many shares you bought it would be difficult. Care to tell
us?

Real estate speculation of the nature you describe is highly risky and
seldom pays off the way you claim it did. Being in the right place at
the right time is great, if you have a crystal ball or a clairvoyant
aunt. More often the costs involved with such speculation eat the
investor alive and mitigate any possibility of a decent return. For the
average person, such a lofty return on investment is simply not in the
stars. For the average person, the investment opportunities available,
whether real estate or paper, won't return anything near the interest
rate paid on a boat loan.


Yep, think about it... why would the bank loan you money at X% if it was a
sure thing they could earn X+% on these wonderful real estate deals? There
are very few REITs paying over 8.5% nowadays, and there are a few that
specialize in rehab real estate.

Well, you must be wrong, Doug. Capt. Bubbles and Mr. Ganz are both
realizing monster profits from straight RE investments. Bubbles is, no
doubt, the RE rehab king of NYC. And those stupid banks just don't get it,
do they.

Max

Wow Max you must be psychotic. I mean psychic.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:

Two years ago I bought some land along Lake Michigan for $200K and sold
it this summer for well over two million dollars.

Oh wait, I just made that up. Like you.


Might as well have been 3 mill, then.

On second thought it *was* $3M.


Shucks I bought IBM stock at $35 a share, kept it for two years during
which time it not only went up to $90 but split, while paying a 4%
dividend, then I not only sold it all but shorted twice as much... guess
how much that netted?

Not knowing how many shares you bought it would be difficult. Care to
tell us?

Real estate speculation of the nature you describe is highly risky and
seldom pays off the way you claim it did. Being in the right place at
the right time is great, if you have a crystal ball or a clairvoyant
aunt. More often the costs involved with such speculation eat the
investor alive and mitigate any possibility of a decent return. For the
average person, such a lofty return on investment is simply not in the
stars. For the average person, the investment opportunities available,
whether real estate or paper, won't return anything near the interest
rate paid on a boat loan.


Yep, think about it... why would the bank loan you money at X% if it was
a sure thing they could earn X+% on these wonderful real estate deals?
There are very few REITs paying over 8.5% nowadays, and there are a few
that specialize in rehab real estate.

Well, you must be wrong, Doug. Capt. Bubbles and Mr. Ganz are both
realizing monster profits from straight RE investments. Bubbles is, no
doubt, the RE rehab king of NYC. And those stupid banks just don't get
it, do they.

Max

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I am cash buyer of real estate properties and privately held mortgage
notes.

Might as well have been 3 mill, then.


Maxprop wrote:
On second thought it *was* $3M.


Careful, the IRS is listening!



Shucks I bought IBM stock at $35 a share, kept it for two years during
which time it not only went up to $90 but split, while paying a 4%
dividend, then I not only sold it all but shorted twice as much... guess
how much that netted?


Not knowing how many shares you bought it would be difficult. Care to tell
us?


Of course not, but it was more than you made or I wouldn't
have mentioned it.

Bubbles already knows how much anyway.


stars. For the average person, the investment opportunities available,
whether real estate or paper, won't return anything near the interest
rate paid on a boat loan.


Yep, think about it... why would the bank loan you money at X% if it was a
sure thing they could earn X+% on these wonderful real estate deals? There
are very few REITs paying over 8.5% nowadays, and there are a few that
specialize in rehab real estate.


Well, you must be wrong, Doug. Capt. Bubbles and Mr. Ganz are both
realizing monster profits from straight RE investments. Bubbles is, no
doubt, the RE rehab king of NYC. And those stupid banks just don't get it,
do they.


That's why bank stock is such a terrible investment

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Might as well have been 3 mill, then.


Maxprop wrote:
On second thought it *was* $3M.


Careful, the IRS is listening!



Shucks I bought IBM stock at $35 a share, kept it for two years during
which time it not only went up to $90 but split, while paying a 4%
dividend, then I not only sold it all but shorted twice as much... guess
how much that netted?


Not knowing how many shares you bought it would be difficult. Care to
tell us?


Of course not, but it was more than you made or I wouldn't have mentioned
it.

More than $4M I made on the sale of my waterfront RE?? P'shaw.

Max