Canada needs to make gun ownership legal again.

Why is it governments feel the need to tell people what they
can't do? Freedom means you can think and chose for
yourself.

Heinlein said that any time ID's are required it is time to
move to a new planet.

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
Couple of items need correction....

It was not a grow-op bust.... that was media hype... it was for stolen
vehicles and in response to a call from the local sheriff attempting to
serve a summons. They found only a dozen plants in his garage and a half
dozen stolen vehicles in different stages of being stripped down for
parts.

The person who committed the crime was a life long felon with a history of
violence.... and he had a lot of guns contrary to the Canadian Firearms
laws.

The 4 officers were 1st year rookies..... the sheriff had relayed he
last
saw the felon heading out to the field with a rifle.

CM

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...&e=3&u=/csm/20
050311/ts_csm/odrugs
TORONTO - On the street it's called Northern Lights, Ontario Hydro, and
B.C. bud. It's one of Canada's biggest agricultural exports - a potent
form
of marijuana cultivated in sprawling "grow houses," worth an estimated
US$4
billion to $7 billion annually. Much of it is smuggled into the US.

Once hidden in farming communities and well-heeled suburbs, grow
operations - indoor nurseries with high-tech lighting and temperature
controls - have been thrust into the national spotlight. Thursday Canada
buried four young Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers who were killed
during a bust in rural Alberta March 3.


The Alberta grow house was just one of thousands across Canada. Here in
Ontario, police say indoor pot operations have risen 250 percent in the
past
four years. And Vancouver is home to some 7,000 "grow ops" at any time,
police say.


The tragedy - the deadliest incident for Canada's national police force
in
120 years - has ignited debate as Canadians begin to question whether
liberal attitudes toward marijuana and lenient laws enacted over the
past
two decades have contributed to the drug boom.


"It's really got people talking about the problem," says Marc Pinault,
staff
sergeant with the Ottawa Police Service's drug unit. "It's pretty clear
that
we produce a pile of pot, and it's really good stuff. I don't know that
that's something we should be really proud of."


Drugs moving east
British Columbia has long been the hub of sophisticated, high-tech
nurseries
capable of producing pot with nearly 30 times the kick of what was found
on
the street a decade ago, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency.
Sergeant
Pinault says the increasing numbers of massive growing operations - once
largely the preserve of Asian gangs and bikers on the West Coast -
indicate
the problem is moving East into provinces like Ontario and Quebec.


Tom Stamatakis, a Vancouver police officer and a member of the Canadian
Professional Police Association, says criminals across the country are
modeling their operations after those found in and around Vancouver.


For example, he says, grow houses are increasingly found in upscale
areas
of
the city as criminals ply their trade behind picket fences and a facade
of
respectability. Inside, they're a hotbed of danger - rigged with booby
traps
to ward off intruders and noxious chemical compounds that pose serious
health threats.


But those aren't the only perils. DEA special agent Rodney Benson of
Seattle
says recent busts have also netted a pile of automatic weapons and
explosive
devices.


"We're definitely seeing more violence," explains Mr. Benson, who
recently
oversaw a year long, cross- border sting called Operation Hockey Bag, in
which investigators charged 22 people and seized more than 400 lbs. of
marijuana, along with $3.4 million and a dozen firearms. "It's not just
weapons - it's what we're seeing from the organization. They rule and
intimidate from within."


RCMP investigators are still sifting through the evidence, trying to
find
out what led to the killing of the four officers last week. The incident
began as an attempt to repossess a pickup truck but ballooned into a
larger
investigation after the marijuana growing operation was discovered. The
gunman, Jim Roszko, killed the officers and later turned a high-powered,
semiautomatic weapon on himself.


Canadian officials stress that it was an isolated act of extreme
violence -
and they hope to keep it that way. Many, like Mr. Stamatakis of
Vancouver,
say that Canadian lawmakers are too lenient in meting out penalties for
those involved in growing operations contributing to the drug explosion.


"When even the outgoing prime minister [Jean Chrétien] makes a flippant
comment like, 'What's the big deal about marijuana? I've probably had a
few
puffs myself.' That sends the wrong message to the community and the
courts," Stamatakis says.


Softer laws for using, harder for selling
There has been a major push to decriminalize marijuana across the
country
in
recent years. Canada was the first country to regulate its medicinal
use,
in
1999. However, while the government has recently moved to introduce
softer
penalties for possession, penalties for growers could get stiffer. A
marijuana bill, reintroduced in November, advocates that possession of
up
to
15 grams would be punishable by fines of C$100 to C$150 ($85 to $125),
but
would no longer lead to a criminal record.


For growers, those caught with more than three plants, face up to five
years
in jail, or 18 months plus a C$25,000 ($20,700) fine. Those caught with
more
than 25 plants could face 10 years in jail, while the bill provides a
maximum sentence of up to 14 years for operations with more than 50
plants.


Last week, Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan issued a warning in the
wake
of the shootings, telling judges that they will be forced to explain
their
decisions in writing if jail terms are not imposed on those who grow
plants.
Under Canadian laws, criminals face a maximum seven-year jail term. In
practice, however, many people convicted of growing marijuana receive
sentences of little more than a few months, police say.


Criminologist Patrick Parnaby says the events of last week are likely to
lead to stiffer penalties. When something like narcotics is intimately
tied
to violence, there is going to be a powerful public backlash, says the
associate professor at the University of Guelph in Ontario. "Stricter
laws
will make the public feel a whole lot better," he says.





But many users pushing for decriminalization couldn't disagree more.
Blair
Longley, leader of the federal Marijuana Party, says legalization would
wipe
out criminal enterprises across the country.

"They've just used this [the Alberta shootings] as an excuse to crack
down
and enforce outdated laws," says Mr. Longley. "In reality, liberalizing
the
laws would mean you would get rid of almost all the profits and,
therefore,
all the crime."

--



jlrogers±³©
Beaten by George W. Bush! Now that's funny!

Bart Senior wrote:
Why is it governments feel the need to tell people what they
can't do? Freedom means you can think and chose for
yourself.


Dunno, but it's certainly an accelerating trend.

Heinlein said that any time ID's are required it is time to
move to a new planet.


Agreed, do you know of any that are open for immigration? I thought that
was one of NASA's jobs but they haven't found any good ones.

DSK

You could volunteer for the lunar gene pool project...

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Bart Senior wrote:
Why is it governments feel the need to tell people what they
can't do? Freedom means you can think and chose for
yourself.


Dunno, but it's certainly an accelerating trend.

Heinlein said that any time ID's are required it is time to
move to a new planet.


Agreed, do you know of any that are open for immigration? I thought that
was one of NASA's jobs but they haven't found any good ones.

DSK

Doug,

If your so hot on individual choice. GO! Why look to NASA to lead you.
You really don't think you'll get a free rocket ride without an ID do
you?
Ole Thom

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

If your so hot on individual choice. GO! Why look to NASA to lead you.
You really don't think you'll get a free rocket ride without an ID do
you?

Who said anything about free?

Another of Heinlein's little rules of thumb was that any culture where
rudeness was accepted or even expected, the norm in every day
interaction, was in steep decline.

DSK

"DSK" wrote

Another of Heinlein's little rules of thumb was that any culture
where
rudeness was accepted or even expected, the norm in every day
interaction, was in steep decline.

Did he mention anything about NGs?

Scotty

Another of Heinlein's little rules of thumb was that any culture
where
rudeness was accepted or even expected, the norm in every day
interaction, was in steep decline.


Scott Vernon wrote:
Did he mention anything about NGs?


Y'know, Heinlein was pretty darn smart and predicted many things
accurately... for example he was the first science fiction writer to
have computers displaying data via TV-like screens... he would have been
flabbergasted by the Internet.

DSK

On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:40:14 -0500, DSK wrote
this crap:

Thom Stewart wrote:
Doug,

If your so hot on individual choice. GO! Why look to NASA to lead you.
You really don't think you'll get a free rocket ride without an ID do
you?

Who said anything about free?

Another of Heinlein's little rules of thumb was that any culture where
rudeness was accepted or even expected, the norm in every day
interaction, was in steep decline.

DSK


He also claimed that you shouldn't own more than you can carry.







Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Horvath wrote:
He also claimed that you shouldn't own more than you can carry.


Do you disagree?

DSK

Agreed, do you know of any that are open for immigration? I thought that
was one of NASA's jobs but they haven't found any good ones.


katysails wrote:
You could volunteer for the lunar gene pool project...


How do you know I haven't already? Best thing I could do for my
descendants, get them offa this rock!

DSK