Compare the Canadian marajuana violence with the actions of labor unions in
the United States. Using the same logic, labor unions should be outlawed.

Amen!

Holy smokes!

Bob Crantz


"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_csm/odrugs
TORONTO - On the street it's called Northern Lights, Ontario Hydro, and
B.C. bud. It's one of Canada's biggest agricultural exports - a potent
form
of marijuana cultivated in sprawling "grow houses," worth an estimated
US$4
billion to $7 billion annually. Much of it is smuggled into the US.

Once hidden in farming communities and well-heeled suburbs, grow
operations - indoor nurseries with high-tech lighting and temperature
controls - have been thrust into the national spotlight. Thursday Canada
buried four young Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers who were killed
during a bust in rural Alberta March 3.


The Alberta grow house was just one of thousands across Canada. Here in
Ontario, police say indoor pot operations have risen 250 percent in the
past
four years. And Vancouver is home to some 7,000 "grow ops" at any time,
police say.


The tragedy - the deadliest incident for Canada's national police force in
120 years - has ignited debate as Canadians begin to question whether
liberal attitudes toward marijuana and lenient laws enacted over the past
two decades have contributed to the drug boom.


"It's really got people talking about the problem," says Marc Pinault,
staff
sergeant with the Ottawa Police Service's drug unit. "It's pretty clear
that
we produce a pile of pot, and it's really good stuff. I don't know that
that's something we should be really proud of."


Drugs moving east
British Columbia has long been the hub of sophisticated, high-tech
nurseries
capable of producing pot with nearly 30 times the kick of what was found
on
the street a decade ago, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency.
Sergeant
Pinault says the increasing numbers of massive growing operations - once
largely the preserve of Asian gangs and bikers on the West Coast -
indicate
the problem is moving East into provinces like Ontario and Quebec.


Tom Stamatakis, a Vancouver police officer and a member of the Canadian
Professional Police Association, says criminals across the country are
modeling their operations after those found in and around Vancouver.


For example, he says, grow houses are increasingly found in upscale areas
of
the city as criminals ply their trade behind picket fences and a facade of
respectability. Inside, they're a hotbed of danger - rigged with booby
traps
to ward off intruders and noxious chemical compounds that pose serious
health threats.


But those aren't the only perils. DEA special agent Rodney Benson of
Seattle
says recent busts have also netted a pile of automatic weapons and
explosive
devices.


"We're definitely seeing more violence," explains Mr. Benson, who recently
oversaw a year long, cross- border sting called Operation Hockey Bag, in
which investigators charged 22 people and seized more than 400 lbs. of
marijuana, along with $3.4 million and a dozen firearms. "It's not just
weapons - it's what we're seeing from the organization. They rule and
intimidate from within."


RCMP investigators are still sifting through the evidence, trying to find
out what led to the killing of the four officers last week. The incident
began as an attempt to repossess a pickup truck but ballooned into a
larger
investigation after the marijuana growing operation was discovered. The
gunman, Jim Roszko, killed the officers and later turned a high-powered,
semiautomatic weapon on himself.


Canadian officials stress that it was an isolated act of extreme
violence -
and they hope to keep it that way. Many, like Mr. Stamatakis of Vancouver,
say that Canadian lawmakers are too lenient in meting out penalties for
those involved in growing operations contributing to the drug explosion.


"When even the outgoing prime minister [Jean Chrétien] makes a flippant
comment like, 'What's the big deal about marijuana? I've probably had a
few
puffs myself.' That sends the wrong message to the community and the
courts," Stamatakis says.


Softer laws for using, harder for selling
There has been a major push to decriminalize marijuana across the country
in
recent years. Canada was the first country to regulate its medicinal use,
in
1999. However, while the government has recently moved to introduce softer
penalties for possession, penalties for growers could get stiffer. A
marijuana bill, reintroduced in November, advocates that possession of up
to
15 grams would be punishable by fines of C$100 to C$150 ($85 to $125), but
would no longer lead to a criminal record.


For growers, those caught with more than three plants, face up to five
years
in jail, or 18 months plus a C$25,000 ($20,700) fine. Those caught with
more
than 25 plants could face 10 years in jail, while the bill provides a
maximum sentence of up to 14 years for operations with more than 50
plants.


Last week, Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan issued a warning in the
wake
of the shootings, telling judges that they will be forced to explain their
decisions in writing if jail terms are not imposed on those who grow
plants.
Under Canadian laws, criminals face a maximum seven-year jail term. In
practice, however, many people convicted of growing marijuana receive
sentences of little more than a few months, police say.


Criminologist Patrick Parnaby says the events of last week are likely to
lead to stiffer penalties. When something like narcotics is intimately
tied
to violence, there is going to be a powerful public backlash, says the
associate professor at the University of Guelph in Ontario. "Stricter laws
will make the public feel a whole lot better," he says.





But many users pushing for decriminalization couldn't disagree more. Blair
Longley, leader of the federal Marijuana Party, says legalization would
wipe
out criminal enterprises across the country.

"They've just used this [the Alberta shootings] as an excuse to crack down
and enforce outdated laws," says Mr. Longley. "In reality, liberalizing
the
laws would mean you would get rid of almost all the profits and,
therefore,
all the crime."

--



jlrogers±³©
Beaten by George W. Bush! Now that's funny!

Why don't they make up their frozen little minds? Lax the laws for
use, but increase penalties for growing? Either legalize it or don't!
WTF?

Scotty



"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...d=2352&e=3&u=/
csm/20050311/ts_csm/odrugs
TORONTO - On the street it's called Northern Lights, Ontario Hydro,
and
B.C. bud. It's one of Canada's biggest agricultural exports - a
potent form
of marijuana cultivated in sprawling "grow houses," worth an
estimated US$4
billion to $7 billion annually. Much of it is smuggled into the US.

Once hidden in farming communities and well-heeled suburbs, grow
operations - indoor nurseries with high-tech lighting and
temperature
controls - have been thrust into the national spotlight. Thursday
Canada
buried four young Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers who were
killed
during a bust in rural Alberta March 3.


The Alberta grow house was just one of thousands across Canada. Here
in
Ontario, police say indoor pot operations have risen 250 percent in
the past
four years. And Vancouver is home to some 7,000 "grow ops" at any
time,
police say.


The tragedy - the deadliest incident for Canada's national police
force in
120 years - has ignited debate as Canadians begin to question
whether
liberal attitudes toward marijuana and lenient laws enacted over the
past
two decades have contributed to the drug boom.


"It's really got people talking about the problem," says Marc
Pinault, staff
sergeant with the Ottawa Police Service's drug unit. "It's pretty
clear that
we produce a pile of pot, and it's really good stuff. I don't know
that
that's something we should be really proud of."


Drugs moving east
British Columbia has long been the hub of sophisticated, high-tech
nurseries
capable of producing pot with nearly 30 times the kick of what was
found on
the street a decade ago, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency.
Sergeant
Pinault says the increasing numbers of massive growing operations -
once
largely the preserve of Asian gangs and bikers on the West Coast -
indicate
the problem is moving East into provinces like Ontario and Quebec.


Tom Stamatakis, a Vancouver police officer and a member of the
Canadian
Professional Police Association, says criminals across the country
are
modeling their operations after those found in and around Vancouver.


For example, he says, grow houses are increasingly found in upscale
areas of
the city as criminals ply their trade behind picket fences and a
facade of
respectability. Inside, they're a hotbed of danger - rigged with
booby traps
to ward off intruders and noxious chemical compounds that pose
serious
health threats.


But those aren't the only perils. DEA special agent Rodney Benson of
Seattle
says recent busts have also netted a pile of automatic weapons and
explosive
devices.


"We're definitely seeing more violence," explains Mr. Benson, who
recently
oversaw a year long, cross- border sting called Operation Hockey
Bag, in
which investigators charged 22 people and seized more than 400 lbs.
of
marijuana, along with $3.4 million and a dozen firearms. "It's not
just
weapons - it's what we're seeing from the organization. They rule
and
intimidate from within."


RCMP investigators are still sifting through the evidence, trying to
find
out what led to the killing of the four officers last week. The
incident
began as an attempt to repossess a pickup truck but ballooned into a
larger
investigation after the marijuana growing operation was discovered.
The
gunman, Jim Roszko, killed the officers and later turned a
high-powered,
semiautomatic weapon on himself.


Canadian officials stress that it was an isolated act of extreme
violence -
and they hope to keep it that way. Many, like Mr. Stamatakis of
Vancouver,
say that Canadian lawmakers are too lenient in meting out penalties
for
those involved in growing operations contributing to the drug
explosion.


"When even the outgoing prime minister [Jean Chrétien] makes a
flippant
comment like, 'What's the big deal about marijuana? I've probably
had a few
puffs myself.' That sends the wrong message to the community and the
courts," Stamatakis says.


Softer laws for using, harder for selling
There has been a major push to decriminalize marijuana across the
country in
recent years. Canada was the first country to regulate its medicinal
use, in
1999. However, while the government has recently moved to introduce
softer
penalties for possession, penalties for growers could get stiffer. A
marijuana bill, reintroduced in November, advocates that possession
of up to
15 grams would be punishable by fines of C$100 to C$150 ($85 to
$125), but
would no longer lead to a criminal record.


For growers, those caught with more than three plants, face up to
five years
in jail, or 18 months plus a C$25,000 ($20,700) fine. Those caught
with more
than 25 plants could face 10 years in jail, while the bill provides
a
maximum sentence of up to 14 years for operations with more than 50
plants.


Last week, Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan issued a warning in
the wake
of the shootings, telling judges that they will be forced to explain
their
decisions in writing if jail terms are not imposed on those who grow
plants.
Under Canadian laws, criminals face a maximum seven-year jail term.
In
practice, however, many people convicted of growing marijuana
receive
sentences of little more than a few months, police say.


Criminologist Patrick Parnaby says the events of last week are
likely to
lead to stiffer penalties. When something like narcotics is
intimately tied
to violence, there is going to be a powerful public backlash, says
the
associate professor at the University of Guelph in Ontario.
"Stricter laws
will make the public feel a whole lot better," he says.





But many users pushing for decriminalization couldn't disagree more.
Blair
Longley, leader of the federal Marijuana Party, says legalization
would wipe
out criminal enterprises across the country.

"They've just used this [the Alberta shootings] as an excuse to
crack down
and enforce outdated laws," says Mr. Longley. "In reality,
liberalizing the
laws would mean you would get rid of almost all the profits and,
therefore,
all the crime."

--



jlrogers±³©
Beaten by George W. Bush! Now that's funny!

Couple of items need correction....

It was not a grow-op bust.... that was media hype... it was for stolen
vehicles and in response to a call from the local sheriff attempting to
serve a summons. They found only a dozen plants in his garage and a half
dozen stolen vehicles in different stages of being stripped down for parts.

The person who committed the crime was a life long felon with a history of
violence.... and he had a lot of guns contrary to the Canadian Firearms
laws.

The 4 officers were 1st year rookies..... the sheriff had relayed he last
saw the felon heading out to the field with a rifle.

CM

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp.../ts_csm/odrugs
TORONTO - On the street it's called Northern Lights, Ontario Hydro, and
B.C. bud. It's one of Canada's biggest agricultural exports - a potent
form
of marijuana cultivated in sprawling "grow houses," worth an estimated
US$4
billion to $7 billion annually. Much of it is smuggled into the US.

Once hidden in farming communities and well-heeled suburbs, grow
operations - indoor nurseries with high-tech lighting and temperature
controls - have been thrust into the national spotlight. Thursday Canada
buried four young Royal Canadian Mounted Police officers who were killed
during a bust in rural Alberta March 3.


The Alberta grow house was just one of thousands across Canada. Here in
Ontario, police say indoor pot operations have risen 250 percent in the
past
four years. And Vancouver is home to some 7,000 "grow ops" at any time,
police say.


The tragedy - the deadliest incident for Canada's national police force in
120 years - has ignited debate as Canadians begin to question whether
liberal attitudes toward marijuana and lenient laws enacted over the past
two decades have contributed to the drug boom.


"It's really got people talking about the problem," says Marc Pinault,
staff
sergeant with the Ottawa Police Service's drug unit. "It's pretty clear
that
we produce a pile of pot, and it's really good stuff. I don't know that
that's something we should be really proud of."


Drugs moving east
British Columbia has long been the hub of sophisticated, high-tech
nurseries
capable of producing pot with nearly 30 times the kick of what was found
on
the street a decade ago, according to the Drug Enforcement Agency.
Sergeant
Pinault says the increasing numbers of massive growing operations - once
largely the preserve of Asian gangs and bikers on the West Coast -
indicate
the problem is moving East into provinces like Ontario and Quebec.


Tom Stamatakis, a Vancouver police officer and a member of the Canadian
Professional Police Association, says criminals across the country are
modeling their operations after those found in and around Vancouver.


For example, he says, grow houses are increasingly found in upscale areas
of
the city as criminals ply their trade behind picket fences and a facade of
respectability. Inside, they're a hotbed of danger - rigged with booby
traps
to ward off intruders and noxious chemical compounds that pose serious
health threats.


But those aren't the only perils. DEA special agent Rodney Benson of
Seattle
says recent busts have also netted a pile of automatic weapons and
explosive
devices.


"We're definitely seeing more violence," explains Mr. Benson, who recently
oversaw a year long, cross- border sting called Operation Hockey Bag, in
which investigators charged 22 people and seized more than 400 lbs. of
marijuana, along with $3.4 million and a dozen firearms. "It's not just
weapons - it's what we're seeing from the organization. They rule and
intimidate from within."


RCMP investigators are still sifting through the evidence, trying to find
out what led to the killing of the four officers last week. The incident
began as an attempt to repossess a pickup truck but ballooned into a
larger
investigation after the marijuana growing operation was discovered. The
gunman, Jim Roszko, killed the officers and later turned a high-powered,
semiautomatic weapon on himself.


Canadian officials stress that it was an isolated act of extreme
violence -
and they hope to keep it that way. Many, like Mr. Stamatakis of Vancouver,
say that Canadian lawmakers are too lenient in meting out penalties for
those involved in growing operations contributing to the drug explosion.


"When even the outgoing prime minister [Jean Chrétien] makes a flippant
comment like, 'What's the big deal about marijuana? I've probably had a
few
puffs myself.' That sends the wrong message to the community and the
courts," Stamatakis says.


Softer laws for using, harder for selling
There has been a major push to decriminalize marijuana across the country
in
recent years. Canada was the first country to regulate its medicinal use,
in
1999. However, while the government has recently moved to introduce softer
penalties for possession, penalties for growers could get stiffer. A
marijuana bill, reintroduced in November, advocates that possession of up
to
15 grams would be punishable by fines of C$100 to C$150 ($85 to $125), but
would no longer lead to a criminal record.


For growers, those caught with more than three plants, face up to five
years
in jail, or 18 months plus a C$25,000 ($20,700) fine. Those caught with
more
than 25 plants could face 10 years in jail, while the bill provides a
maximum sentence of up to 14 years for operations with more than 50
plants.


Last week, Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan issued a warning in the
wake
of the shootings, telling judges that they will be forced to explain their
decisions in writing if jail terms are not imposed on those who grow
plants.
Under Canadian laws, criminals face a maximum seven-year jail term. In
practice, however, many people convicted of growing marijuana receive
sentences of little more than a few months, police say.


Criminologist Patrick Parnaby says the events of last week are likely to
lead to stiffer penalties. When something like narcotics is intimately
tied
to violence, there is going to be a powerful public backlash, says the
associate professor at the University of Guelph in Ontario. "Stricter laws
will make the public feel a whole lot better," he says.





But many users pushing for decriminalization couldn't disagree more. Blair
Longley, leader of the federal Marijuana Party, says legalization would
wipe
out criminal enterprises across the country.

"They've just used this [the Alberta shootings] as an excuse to crack down
and enforce outdated laws," says Mr. Longley. "In reality, liberalizing
the
laws would mean you would get rid of almost all the profits and,
therefore,
all the crime."

--



jlrogers±³©
Beaten by George W. Bush! Now that's funny!

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

The 4 officers were 1st year rookies.....

as opposed to 3rd year rookies?

CM,

Your logic is FU again. That Canadian Weed is basically grown for US
consumption. It will be illegal in the States as long as Canadian Bribe
money is available for our elected representatives. The industry is US
Dollar driven. SO----

Getting it across the border is still a crime,as of now. Big bucks to be
made like in the Booze Running Days of the early Thirties.

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

You'd best re-read my post... I didn't comment on the specifics of pot
production... so your admonishment regarding my logic is in itself
erroneous. I stated that the article jlrogers presented was in error. I
corrected the presented facts to reflect the actual situation.

CM



"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
CM,

Your logic is FU again. That Canadian Weed is basically grown for US
consumption. It will be illegal in the States as long as Canadian Bribe
money is available for our elected representatives. The industry is US
Dollar driven. SO----

Getting it across the border is still a crime,as of now. Big bucks to be
made like in the Booze Running Days of the early Thirties.

Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

Thom Stewart wrote:


The industry is US
Dollar driven. SO----

Getting it across the border is still a crime,as of now. Big bucks to
be
made like in the Booze Running Days of the early Thirties.

Whats "Big Bucks" ?

How far are you from the border?

Do they catch many sailing in with product?

Ive seen several stories lately of sailboats getting busted, one bring
in pot in Fla fter the USCG noticed they meet up with speedboat in the
Gulf, Second was 12 illegal's coming in to N.C. from the open Atlantic.
Somehow I think big brother is watching ever single boat along the US
borders 24-7.

Risky Carrer.

Joe


Ole Thom




http://community.webtv.net/tassail/ThomsPage

"Joe" wrote in message

Whats "Big Bucks" ?

$100 a quarter ounce on the street.


How far are you from the border?

That is irrelevent.... 99% of our mutual border is unguarded.... it's a
walk in the woods. Once it's in the USA the chances of being captured are
reduced dramatically. Six hikers carrying 40lbs each represents a sizable
profit.


Do they catch many sailing in with product?

Anybody who uses a sailboat to import pot is an idiot.... or the shipment is
a sacrifice meant to occupy the authorites while the main shipment is
delivered by other means in an alternate location.


Ive seen several stories lately of sailboats getting busted, one bring
in pot in Fla fter the USCG noticed they meet up with speedboat in the
Gulf, Second was 12 illegal's coming in to N.C. from the open Atlantic.
Somehow I think big brother is watching ever single boat along the US
borders 24-7.

You overestimate the capabilities of your government..... they intercept
maybe 10% of the smugglers.


Risky Carrer.

So is the stock market... or the military... or a being gay like Ganz.

CM

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

$100 a quarter ounce on the street.

Yikes, I remember $20 a bag.




Do they catch many sailing in with product?

Anybody who uses a sailboat to import pot is an idiot....

Why? I thought maybe you and I could start a new business together.

Scotty

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
Anybody who uses a sailboat to import pot is an idiot....

Ship High In Transit?