Maxprop wrote:
For her birthday or next Christmas, get her a copy of Rebecca Wittman's book
"Brightwork." A nice coffee table book as well as an anal retentive
brighworker's treatise. She'd love it, if she doesn't already have it.


We already have 2 copies... she keeps one in her office... but thanks
for the recommendation...


I really enjoy properly varnished teak, but my personal experience is that
teak is simply too oily to hold varnish properly in hot summer sunlight.
Mahogany is another story, and our former Mariner 31 ketch had
lovingly-varnished mahogany brightwork.


That depends on the wood and how it's been treated, but for the most
part you're probably right. Using thinners can drive out much of the
near-surface oil but it will always come back... at least for ten years
or so...


I'm probably a bit like your wife in my approach to varnish, but I prefer
Cetol simply because it lasts, and with minimal problems.

That's not the case, from my observations. Given two equally prepped
pieces of wood, the Cetol will outlast varnish by about 10% at most, and
require about 10% less work to maintain.

The new clear stuff doesn't look as bad as the old orange Jell-O Cetol,
but it still doesn't look good up close. If the wood has pretty enough
grain to be worth any type of bright finish, it deserves varnish IMHO.

BTW we had a professional do some of the wood on our boat when we first
bought it, the former owner had slapped on a terrible coating of
polyurethane. He also takes care of a number of boats with Cetol and he
swears the stuff is actually more work than varnish.

... Perhaps when we retire to Oriental,
we'll reconsider varnish for the brightwork.


That part of NC (around New Bern as well) is getting to be worse than
Florida. They're four-laning the highway to Oriental, so that the
blue-hairs will have an easier time. But hey, there's plenty of room for
more!

But if you move the boat down South, you'll be astonished at the
difference in the longevity of any type finish. UV is very destructive.
If you don't have varnish now, you certainly won't want it down here
unless you put the boat under a cover.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

That's not the case, from my observations. Given two equally prepped
pieces of wood, the Cetol will outlast varnish by about 10% at most, and
require about 10% less work to maintain.

The biggest difference between the two that I've found is the technique and
care required during application. I'm good with a brush, but it still takes
me far longer and with far more care to apply a coat of varnish vs. Cetol.
I can apply a coat of Cetol to my coamings in about an hour. To do the same
with, say, Interlux varnish, I'd require at least twice that long with all
the tipping out, etc. More care is required in dipping the brush in varnish
as well, to avoid bubbles. And weather is another factor. I've applied
Cetol in 45 degrees and wind, and also in 90 degrees and humidity, both with
acceptable results. Varnish requires a narrower set of parameters if the
finish coat is to have a smooth, glasslike appearance. Then of course there
is the issue of sanding between coats. Cetol requires none as it bonds
chemically to itself, but varnish requires a mechanical bond between coats,
so sanding is obligatory.


The new clear stuff doesn't look as bad as the old orange Jell-O Cetol,
but it still doesn't look good up close.

I honestly can't tell much difference between the two.

If the wood has pretty enough grain to be worth any type of bright finish,
it deserves varnish IMHO.

Have you ever tried Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish?


BTW we had a professional do some of the wood on our boat when we first
bought it, the former owner had slapped on a terrible coating of
polyurethane. He also takes care of a number of boats with Cetol and he
swears the stuff is actually more work than varnish.

I've heard that before, and don't believe it for a moment.

... Perhaps when we retire to Oriental, we'll reconsider varnish for
the brightwork.


That part of NC (around New Bern as well) is getting to be worse than
Florida. They're four-laning the highway to Oriental, so that the
blue-hairs will have an easier time. But hey, there's plenty of room for
more!

We noted the road work when we were there last year. Not too many bluehairs
when we were there, but no doubt they'll come. They always do.


But if you move the boat down South, you'll be astonished at the
difference in the longevity of any type finish. UV is very destructive. If
you don't have varnish now, you certainly won't want it down here unless
you put the boat under a cover.

Not having experienced a NC summer I can't comment, but I'd be surprised if
the UV intensity there wasn't significantly greater than up here.

Max

That's not the case, from my observations. Given two equally prepped
pieces of wood, the Cetol will outlast varnish by about 10% at most, and
require about 10% less work to maintain.


Maxprop wrote:
The biggest difference between the two that I've found is the technique and
care required during application. I'm good with a brush, but it still takes
me far longer and with far more care to apply a coat of varnish vs. Cetol.

Maybe I'm getting to be a fussy old fogey, but it seems totally natural
to me to be careful like that. Modern varnishes (at least the
high-dollar stuff) is nowhere near as temperamental as the old time spar
varnish I remember.

My wife uses foam brushes... still have to be careful about bubbles, but
it's pretty quick and easy. I'm wavering on the foam brush thing, it
seems sinful to me.

.... And weather is another factor. I've applied
Cetol in 45 degrees and wind, and also in 90 degrees and humidity, both with
acceptable results. Varnish requires a narrower set of parameters if the
finish coat is to have a smooth, glasslike appearance.

That's very true. Especially dust & humidity.

... Then of course there
is the issue of sanding between coats. Cetol requires none as it bonds
chemically to itself, but varnish requires a mechanical bond between coats,
so sanding is obligatory.

Actually (depending on the varnish you use) it's not. All sanding does
is produce a lot of dust and require cleanup. The pro we had going over
our brightwork originally gave us a lot of pointers on this. He said
that most people sand way too much and don't clean up after well enough.
Bristol and Epifanes both make a good high-build high-UV-resistant
finish that isn't supposed to be sanded between coats, once the surface
is good.





The new clear stuff doesn't look as bad as the old orange Jell-O Cetol,
but it still doesn't look good up close.


I honestly can't tell much difference between the two.


Maybe you haven't looked well enough. Up close, the difference is
obvious. From ten feet away, it's not obvious but visible.

If a boat with really sharp varnished brightwork parked next to you,
people would say "Boy that Sea Sprite sure is a pretty boat, what a dang
shame about the woodwork."


If the wood has pretty enough grain to be worth any type of bright finish,
it deserves varnish IMHO.


Have you ever tried Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish?


Yep. I'm not positive but IIRC that's what's on the tugboat right now.


BTW we had a professional do some of the wood on our boat when we first
bought it, the former owner had slapped on a terrible coating of
polyurethane. He also takes care of a number of boats with Cetol and he
swears the stuff is actually more work than varnish.


I've heard that before, and don't believe it for a moment.


Well, this guy makes a pretty good living at it and knows a lot more
than I do... I can't believe somebody would pay money for a pro job and
want Cetol but apparently a lot do (including two in our marina).


... Perhaps when we retire to Oriental, we'll reconsider varnish for
the brightwork.


That part of NC (around New Bern as well) is getting to be worse than
Florida. They're four-laning the highway to Oriental, so that the
blue-hairs will have an easier time. But hey, there's plenty of room for
more!


We noted the road work when we were there last year. Not too many bluehairs
when we were there, but no doubt they'll come. They always do.

They're already there. That daily 3 truckloads of New York newspapers
and 2 truckloads of froo-froo coffee isn't for consumption by locals.


Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

My wife uses foam brushes... still have to be careful about bubbles, but
it's pretty quick and easy. I'm wavering on the foam brush thing, it seems
sinful to me.

Ah, yes, a Becky Wittman convert. I like the foam brushes, too, as does my
wife. That said, I bought a set of badger bristle brushes, three round and
two straight, this past summer. And I love 'em for varnish. The round ones
are unbeatable for getting into nooks and crannies, or along moldings.

... Then of course there is the issue of sanding between coats. Cetol
requires none as it bonds chemically to itself, but varnish requires a
mechanical bond between coats, so sanding is obligatory.

Actually (depending on the varnish you use) it's not. All sanding does is
produce a lot of dust and require cleanup. The pro we had going over our
brightwork originally gave us a lot of pointers on this. He said that most
people sand way too much and don't clean up after well enough. Bristol and
Epifanes both make a good high-build high-UV-resistant finish that isn't
supposed to be sanded between coats, once the surface is good.

Yeah, that would be Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish, of which I've been extoling
the virtues to Capt. Mooron. I love that stuff, mostly because it builds
much faster than straight long-oil varnish, and it's completely compatible
with varnish. I've never tried Bristol Finish, but some of the folks on our
dock swear by it.

If a boat with really sharp varnished brightwork parked next to you,
people would say "Boy that Sea Sprite sure is a pretty boat, what a dang
shame about the woodwork."

People who truly know brightwork would, indeed, but the average Joe on the
dock says, "Wow, that woodwork sure is gorgeous, but I'd never want that
much wood on my boat." Or something similar.

Have you ever tried Epifanes Gloss Wood Finish?


Yep. I'm not positive but IIRC that's what's on the tugboat right now.

The Epifanes rep I spoke with at the Woodenboat Show told me he uses it
exclusively now. He hasn't opened a can of his company's varnish in over
three years. The stuff builds exceptionally well, and levels nicely.


I've heard that before, and don't believe it for a moment.


Well, this guy makes a pretty good living at it and knows a lot more than
I do... I can't believe somebody would pay money for a pro job and want
Cetol but apparently a lot do (including two in our marina).

That would surprise me as well. We've got some pros (independent
contractors--not part of the marina staff) who do brightwork locally, and
while they don't hate Cetol, they do a lot of arm twisting to convince their
clients to use varnish. One of them, a friend, did the transom of a Grand
Banks 42 this past winter and it is absolutely beyond belief. Looks like
glass over perfectly-sanded teak.

We noted the road work when we were there last year. Not too many
bluehairs when we were there, but no doubt they'll come. They always do.

They're already there. That daily 3 truckloads of New York newspapers and
2 truckloads of froo-froo coffee isn't for consumption by locals.


We noticed a surplus of New Yorkers when we were then in Dec. '03. Everyone
seemed pretty laid back, though, and we're looking forward to being down
there some day.

Max