Maxprop wrote:
.... quite
often boats of beauty are great performers as well. Conversely ugly
boats--those that have been optimized for interior volume rather than hull
design integrity--are most often terrible performers. Take the Morgan Out
Island series, as an example of the latter.

Or most (not all) center cockpit boats.

... And the CCA yachts of the 40s
and 50s as an example of the former. The Hinckley Bermuda 40 is still one
of the finest performing, best handling boats in existence. It still wins
handicap races, and it's drop dead gorgeous. So are the 6 Metres and
Etchells 22s. Even the latest America's Cup yachts are beautiful in design
and appearance. Dame Ellen MacArthur's B&Q, while quite modern in design,
is quite attractive.


Any boat that wins is pretty. The more she wins, the prettier she gets!

L.Francis Herreshoff wrote that the sea may be considered to have an eye
for beauty, that hulls which just 'look right,' especially to an
experienced sailor, often are the best.

It's true that computational dynamics have replaced the experienced eye
in naval architecture, and boats have become enormously faster (largely
because of advances in materials IMHO), the experienced sailors eye
still has a feel for what the sea will approve of. Ugly race boats are
usually optimized to some measurement rule rather than for performance.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Well said Doug, Except for that wise crack about center cockpits.

Joe

Joe wrote:
Well said Doug, Except for that wise crack about center cockpits.


It may be that your boat is one of the exceptions... given what you've
said, and the look of it from pictures, I'd be inclined to think so.

However it's one of those design trade-offs... you could take any hull &
rig, and rebuild the deck to a center cockpit configuration, and thus
gain interior accomodation & privacy at the expense of sailing performance.

Please note that very very few racing boats have center cockpits... it
was tried on 12-Meters, for example... IIRC the only real winner of the
bunch was 'Flyer' a custom Swan ketch in the first Whitbread
'Round-The-World' race... it works on very big boats, such as Mari-Cha 4...

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Joe wrote:
Well said Doug, Except for that wise crack about center cockpits.

It may be that your boat is one of the exceptions... given what you've
said, and the look of it from pictures, I'd be inclined to think so.

Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was a
lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing on
our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was a
lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing on
our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

DSK

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was a
lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing on
our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

S2s were built up here in Holland, Michigan. The owner of the company was a
gent named Leon Slikkers, a displaced Dutchman, who started out building
Slikcraft powerboats, then sold his company to AMF, and was barred from
building powerboats for a period of ten years by the sale contract. So he
built sailboats, and some of the early S2s were among the ugliest, worst
performing pieces of high quality junk ever produced. He was a quick study,
however, and hired Graham and Schlageter to design his line of
cruiser/racers, and Arthur Edmonds (I think) to design the cruisers. The
results were exceptionally well-built boats with lots of upgrade features.
And they were good sailing machines. The G&S designed 35' CC was one of his
last sailing designs, and it was too bad it wasn't expanded upon into larger
boats. They were deceptively fast and beautifully constructed, if not
particularly beautiful aesthetically. Slikkers is back building powerboats
(Tiara), but he claims he'll build a fleet of 6 or 7 7.9 Grand Slam racers
if someone will give him an order and 50% down. Yeah, sure.

Max

Too bad they're making Tiara's now...what a comedown....but Max is right
about that S-2...that thing was FAST....smokin fast....BTW, Max, who ended
up buying her and where did she go?


"Maxprop" wrote in message
. net...

"DSK" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:
Another exception is the Graham & Schlageter-designed S2 35 CC. It was
a lower-volume center cockpit boat built on a racing hull, and it was
amazingly fast, especially downwind, but it wasn't beautiful. Nothing
on our part of Lake Michigan, short of a maxi, could outrun that beast.


I've heard of them, neer seen one in person. There were two S-2 9.2cc in
our marina, one owned by some good friends... both sailed pretty
respectably even if they weren't center cockpit boats. I like S-2 boats.

S2s were built up here in Holland, Michigan. The owner of the company was
a gent named Leon Slikkers, a displaced Dutchman, who started out building
Slikcraft powerboats, then sold his company to AMF, and was barred from
building powerboats for a period of ten years by the sale contract. So he
built sailboats, and some of the early S2s were among the ugliest, worst
performing pieces of high quality junk ever produced. He was a quick
study, however, and hired Graham and Schlageter to design his line of
cruiser/racers, and Arthur Edmonds (I think) to design the cruisers. The
results were exceptionally well-built boats with lots of upgrade features.
And they were good sailing machines. The G&S designed 35' CC was one of
his last sailing designs, and it was too bad it wasn't expanded upon into
larger boats. They were deceptively fast and beautifully constructed, if
not particularly beautiful aesthetically. Slikkers is back building
powerboats (Tiara), but he claims he'll build a fleet of 6 or 7 7.9 Grand
Slam racers if someone will give him an order and 50% down. Yeah, sure.

Max

"DSK" wrote in message

It's true that computational dynamics have replaced the experienced eye in
naval architecture, and boats have become enormously faster (largely
because of advances in materials IMHO), the experienced sailors eye still
has a feel for what the sea will approve of. Ugly race boats are usually
optimized to some measurement rule rather than for performance.

I can't remember the name of the boat, but it was a noted one-off
rule-beater back in the seventies. It was so butt-f***ing ugly as to be
offensive. Not sure if it won many races, but it did get a lot of press.

Max