"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

In article et,
Maxprop wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Last I was there, they were using it for research, so it must have
been pre-2000. It's definitely interesting.

One has to see it to believe it. Covers three acres under roof, and is
amazingly accurate, with respect to depths, contours, etc. Fascination
aside, I know far more about the Bay than I did before I saw the thing.

It can make for some tricky sailing in some areas.

We noticed quite a few marinas up the rivers and canals that feed into the
Bay. What are the common depths of those things? Is running aground a
potential problem? And how do the slip rental fees of such marinas compare
with those, say, in Sausalito or Berkley? (No, we aren't thinking of moving
out there--your real estate values are off the scale. It would almost take
a millionaire to move to SF these days.)

Max

In article et,
Maxprop wrote:
We noticed quite a few marinas up the rivers and canals that feed into the
Bay. What are the common depths of those things? Is running aground a
potential problem? And how do the slip rental fees of such marinas compare
with those, say, in Sausalito or Berkley? (No, we aren't thinking of moving
out there--your real estate values are off the scale. It would almost take
a millionaire to move to SF these days.)

Definitely it's a depth issue on the rivers and canals. It's even an
issue right off the main part of bay in spots... San Leandro, even
places in Sausalito. Right around the corner from the Bay Model, you
have be very careful to stay in the channel, even during high tide.

I pay $150 for my 22' slip, which isn't too bad, given that it's a
prime location (Sausalito). You can do significantly better than that
when you're further out. Check http://www.latitude38.com/. I'm sure
you'd find more reasonable rates. Bererkely isn't cheap either, but
the really outrageous costs happen when you need over a 40'
slip. They're really in demand, whereas the smaller ones like mine can
be had just about anywhere.

You don't need to be a millionaire to live in the bay area, but it
sure does help.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

You don't need to be gay to live in the bay area, but it
sure does help.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message

Maxprop wrote:
We noticed quite a few marinas up the rivers and canals that feed into the
Bay. What are the common depths of those things? Is running aground a
potential problem? And how do the slip rental fees of such marinas
compare
with those, say, in Sausalito or Berkley? (No, we aren't thinking of
moving
out there--your real estate values are off the scale. It would almost
take
a millionaire to move to SF these days.)

Definitely it's a depth issue on the rivers and canals. It's even an
issue right off the main part of bay in spots... San Leandro, even
places in Sausalito. Right around the corner from the Bay Model, you
have be very careful to stay in the channel, even during high tide.

Not surprising. What really impressed me is how shallow parts of the Bay
are. The deepest hole is right under the GG Bridge, and it even flattens
out somewhat out in the ocean. Guess I always thought something with a 8'
draft would be okay in SF Bay, but perhaps not, unless you slip at the St.
Francis, or somewhere similar.


I pay $150 for my 22' slip, which isn't too bad, given that it's a
prime location (Sausalito). You can do significantly better than that
when you're further out. Check http://www.latitude38.com/. I'm sure
you'd find more reasonable rates. Bererkely isn't cheap either, but
the really outrageous costs happen when you need over a 40'
slip. They're really in demand, whereas the smaller ones like mine can
be had just about anywhere.

That's not a bad price for your location. We chatted with one sailor on the
dock at Sausalito--he claimed his 40' slip cost more than his monthly house
payment. Must have bought his house years ago, or else he lives in the
Tenderloin.

You don't need to be a millionaire to live in the bay area, but it
sure does help.

We can't quite understand how so many seemingly average people can afford to
live in SF proper. $700K barely buys an upper 5 there, and many of the
people we saw in town didn't look like they could afford that sort of thing.
Guess looks can be deceiving, or perhaps those we saw rent, rather than own.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
Not surprising. What really impressed me is how shallow parts of the
Bay
are. The deepest hole is right under the GG Bridge, and it even
flattens
out somewhat out in the ocean. Guess I always thought something with
a 8'
draft would be okay in SF Bay, but perhaps not, unless you slip at
the St.
Francis, or somewhere similar.

It's much better to have less. 8' would restrict you to only the
deepest areas. I get nervous with a 6' draft where we are. The Yamaha
30 I believe has a 5.5. Sometimes it can't be moved on a very low tide.

I pay $150 for my 22' slip, which isn't too bad, given that it's a
prime location (Sausalito). You can do significantly better than
that
when you're further out. Check http://www.latitude38.com/. I'm sure
you'd find more reasonable rates. Bererkely isn't cheap either, but
the really outrageous costs happen when you need over a 40'
slip. They're really in demand, whereas the smaller ones like mine
can
be had just about anywhere.

That's not a bad price for your location. We chatted with one sailor
on the
dock at Sausalito--he claimed his 40' slip cost more than his monthly
house
payment. Must have bought his house years ago, or else he lives in
the
Tenderloin.

It just went up, despite the deal I get with the marina. I believe 40'
slips are about $600 per in the same marina (with the discount).


You don't need to be a millionaire to live in the bay area, but it
sure does help.

We can't quite understand how so many seemingly average people can
afford to
live in SF proper. $700K barely buys an upper 5 there, and many of
the
people we saw in town didn't look like they could afford that sort of
thing.
Guess looks can be deceiving, or perhaps those we saw rent, rather
than own.

Max

There are a lot of people in SF who are in rent controlled apartments.
I know a couple of people who have nice places where they pay under
$300/mo. It's a total rip off, but that's the way it is. Eventually,
the owners get them out by converting to condos or something. Then, the
rent changes to $3000/mo.

Somewhat affordable property still exists in SF proper. I have a friend
who paid $650 large for duplex in a choice location. It needed a bit of
work, but as pretty much move in ready. Of course, this was a few years
ago, so maybe things have changed. In Sausalito, the homes are in the
millions, but there are some slightly lower cost places to be bought or
rented.

wrote in message

Somewhat affordable property still exists in SF proper. I have a friend
who paid $650 large for duplex in a choice location. It needed a bit of
work, but as pretty much move in ready. Of course, this was a few years
ago, so maybe things have changed.

I think a lot of nice, smaller homes can still be had for that sort of cash,
especially in Sunset or the area just over the hill from it, whatever it's
called. But that kind of money buys a deluxe executive home in the 4,500
sq. ft. range around here. Back in the mid-80s, a professor of mine moved
to Bloomington, IN (home of Indiana University) from an LA suburb. He sold
his house for $700K, The most expensive home for sale in Bloomington at
the time was only $350K, so he had to buy a condo in FL, too, to avoid
paying capital gains. What's really funny is that his Bloomington house was
double the size and far more luxurious than his LA home. He couldn't
believe it.

In Sausalito, the homes are in the
millions, but there are some slightly lower cost places to be bought or
rented.

I considered buying a fixer-upper in Sausalito back in '84. It was not
large, in poor condition, but had a fabulous view of Richardson Bay and
Belvedere. It was only $300K at the time and probably a mega-bargain. I
passed. We took a look at it last week, and it apparently was torn down and
a newer house of (I'm guessing) 2500 sq. ft. now sits in its place, no doubt
valued at $2million or so. Hindsight is 20/20.

Max

I hope you washed your hands!

Joe

Maxprop wrote:

See any boats sailing?

A few. The weather really was cool and rainy most of the time. Always a
few die-hard sailors, though.

Cool weather and rain doesn't stop any REAL sailor. Those that are not real
sailors move to warm climates, like Key Largo, Florida, and hang out in
their boats all day, occasionally using their cedar buckets and their
imaginations.

Lonny
--
Enjoy my new sailing web site
http://sail247.com


"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message

"Maxprop" wrote in message

Just returned from San Francisco and didn't see Mr. Ganz anywhere.
Then
again, I guess I didn't really look too hard.

Sure rains a lot there this time of year.


See any boats sailing?

A few. The weather really was cool and rainy most of the time. Always a
few die-hard sailors, though. Walked the docks a bit in Sausalito,
though, and saw some nice boats. And some junk.

What was poignant were the freighters arriving from the Orient, loaded to
the high waterlines. The ones leaving were showing about 20' of painted
bottom. Trade deficit.

Max

wrote in message

wrote:

Maxprop wrote:

See any boats sailing?

A few. The weather really was cool and rainy most of the time. Always
a
few die-hard sailors, though.

Cool weather and rain doesn't stop any REAL sailor.

That's why it was MaxProp who said it.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You've really lost it, BB, but
that's nothing new.

Max

I think he was trying to say that you didn't go sailing while you were out
here.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
.net...

wrote in message

wrote:

Maxprop wrote:

See any boats sailing?

A few. The weather really was cool and rainy most of the time. Always
a
few die-hard sailors, though.

Cool weather and rain doesn't stop any REAL sailor.

That's why it was MaxProp who said it.

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You've really lost it, BB, but
that's nothing new.

Max