Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe

In article ,
Joe wrote:
Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe, true to form, why don't you just use a match and look in one of
the little openings.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Fuel:

Fuel contamination
Bug


Oil:
Bearing damage
Coolant leakage (colored)
Water (sludge)
Ring failure


Ooop that's six. Sorry

Cheers


Joe wrote:

Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe

Nav wrote in message ...
Fuel:

Fuel contamination
Bug


Oil:
Bearing damage
Coolant leakage (colored)
Water (sludge)
Ring failure


Ooop that's six. Sorry

Thats Ok,

For about 45 dollars you can send your oil sample to a company like

http://www.herguth.com/testing/spectro.htm

I think the best test is the

Spectrochemical Analysis

The identification of the trace metals contained in an oil sample is
of prime importance in Condition Monitoring. Typically, an Atomic
Emission Spectrometer is used to identify common wear metals,
contaminates, and inorganic additives found in lubricants. This
analysis is typically rapid and inexpensive. Spectrochemical data is
reported in parts per million.

Common Sources of Metals
Wear Metals
Wear metals are the result of components in the system making contact
and creating a wear regime that is not desireable. Common sources of
wear metals a
Iron - Cylinders, liners, pistons, rings, valves, valve guides,
anti-friction bearings, gear train, accessory gear drives, shafts,
clutch plates, rust.
Aluminum - Pistons, bearing, blower/turbos, pump vanes, thrust
washers.
Chromium - Compression rings, chromate from cooling system,
anti-friction bearings, shafts.
Copper - Bearings, bushings, thrust washers, valve guides, injector
shields, oil cooler core tubes, some clutches. Additive in some oils,
anti-seize and gasket compound.
Lead - Bearings, platings, leaded gear lubes, leaded gasoline.
Tin - Bearins, platings.
Nickel - Shafts, valves, anti-friction bearings.
Silver - Silver solder, wrist pin bushings (EMD).
Vanadium - By-products of heavy fuel oil and occasionally a wear
metal.



Contaminants
Contaminants are usually the result of outside ingression of
undesirable elements in the oil.
Silicon - Sand, dirt, dust, also contained as Silicone in new oil as
anti-foam agent,low concentrations. Also anti-freeze and gasket
sealing compounds.
Sodium - Contained in some new oils. Also contamination from
anti-freeze, salt water.
Boron - A contamination from anti-freeze. Is also used as an additive
is some gear oil formulations.


Additive Metals
We also measure certain metallic elements that are found as additives
in a variety of lubricating oils. The primary purpose of analyzing for
the additives is to ensure that the appropriate additives are present
and that there are no other inorganic additives that indicate that
cross-contamination has occurred. Performing an analysis on the fresh
un-used lubricant will show which additives are there and which are
not. Subsequent oil samples can be compared to this baseline.

Zinc - Is a component of the lubricant additive ZDDP
(zinc-dithio-dialkyl-phosphate), which is an anti-wear (AW)additive
for hydraulic oils, engine oils, transmission fluids, and some
circulating oils.
Phosphorus - Is the other component of the lubricant additive ZDDP
(zinc-dithio-dialkyl-phosphate), which is an anti-wear (AW) additive
for hydraulic oils, engine oils, transmission fluids, and some
circulating oils. Phosphorus can also be present in some turbine type
oils and gear oils as an anti-scuff additive.
Calcium - Engine oils , hydraulic oils, transmission fluids, and some
circulating oils contain calcium in the form of calcium sulfonate or
calcium phenate. It is formulated to act as a detergent /dispersant.
Barium & Magnesium - These inorganic additives are sometimes used in
the place of or combination with calcium for the same purpose.
Molybdenum - Most often molybdenum is in the form of molybdenum
disulfide, which is intended to act as a mechanical friction modifier.
Cadmium - Contained in some new oils as an additive.
Manganese - Contained in some new oils as an additive.
Titanium - Contained in some alloys.

How It Works

The oil sample is ionized in a control chamber; the light from this
burning process is separated by a diffraction grating (much like a
prism). Each element emits its own characteristic wavelength of light
(energy). Photomultiplier tubes are positioned to collect this light
from the specific metals. With the aid of a computer, the intensity of
light is compared to a standard and converted to parts per million.

The value of emission spectroscopy is well known. The laboratory can
evaluate trends in wear rates, cross contamination with different
lubricants (additives), contamination from silicon (dirt) and coolant
additives. However, the user should be aware of certain drawbacks. The
particle size of the elements in question has a great impact on the
ability of the spectrometer to completely and consistently excite them
to the state required for accurate analysis (for a solution to this
problem, see Ferrography). This problem is so extreme in certain
applications that a digesting process is required prior to the
analysis in order to get all of the particles in the sample to a
soluble state for accurate and consistent results.


You get the 5 points.

I did a test on my gen set when I rebuilt it 5 years ago. Have many
hours now on it and Im starting to see soot. Think its just needs the
injectors rebuildt but... Im glad I have my old report to compare with
a new report.





Cheers


Joe wrote:

Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe

Joe wrote:
For about 45 dollars you can send your oil sample to a company

Wow, $45? That's rather expensive, I get the same service from a local
company for about $20 per sample. We consider it mandatory to get a full
oil analysis once per year and keep the report in the log... BTW that
goes for all kinds of power machinery like compressors, not just engines.

After taking care of various commercial machinery, it struck me as very
slapdash the way most boat owners take care of their engines.




I did a test on my gen set when I rebuilt it 5 years ago. Have many
hours now on it and Im starting to see soot. Think its just needs the
injectors rebuildt but... Im glad I have my old report to compare with
a new report.

Could be the injectors need adjusting, or it could be crud in the fuel.
You using 2mic filters?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote in message ...
Joe wrote:
For about 45 dollars you can send your oil sample to a company

Wow, $45? That's rather expensive, I get the same service from a local
company for about $20 per sample. We consider it mandatory to get a full
oil analysis once per year and keep the report in the log... BTW that
goes for all kinds of power machinery like compressors, not just engines.

After taking care of various commercial machinery, it struck me as very
slapdash the way most boat owners take care of their engines.


Yelp its down right laughable of some. And compaired to the US Navy
PMS many companies are put to shame.





I did a test on my gen set when I rebuilt it 5 years ago. Have many
hours now on it and Im starting to see soot. Think its just needs the
injectors rebuildt but... Im glad I have my old report to compare with
a new report.

Could be the injectors need adjusting, or it could be crud in the fuel.
You using 2mic filters?


I think they need new tips. Did not redo them when I rebuilt the
moter.

Why do you say crud in the fuel?

When a heavy load item like the AC or water heater kicks on you get a
little black soot on the water, almost like turbo lag.... but its not
turbo charged.
I was thinking a poor injection pattern due to washed out or fouled
tips.


Joe

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

After taking care of various commercial machinery, it struck me as very
slapdash the way most boat owners take care of their engines.


Joe wrote:
Yelp its down right laughable of some.

In some cases, it's ignorance... or listening to bad advice. In others
it's laziness or cheapness. I'm pretty tight with a dollar but if you
are going to own a boat IMHO scrimping should be done in a way that does
not lead to damage or premature repair/replacement.


... And compaired to the US Navy
PMS many companies are put to shame.

Well, the military has manpower to burn... they don't pay overtime! One
thing I will give full credit for is their training, that is second to
none. But in many cases, the U.S. military expends huge amounts of
manpower fixing things that ain't broke, taking apart things just so it
can be checked off and put back together.






I did a test on my gen set when I rebuilt it 5 years ago. Have many
hours now on it and Im starting to see soot. Think its just needs the
injectors rebuildt but... Im glad I have my old report to compare with
a new report.

Could be the injectors need adjusting, or it could be crud in the fuel.
You using 2mic filters?



I think they need new tips. Did not redo them when I rebuilt the
moter.

Why do you say crud in the fuel?

Because some types of crud will produce sooty exhaust, especially under
load. If the engine has a lot of hours & 5 years on it, then pulling the
injectors is probably a good idea.

Get 2 micron filter elements and a good water seperator. And while a lot
of people swear by "Algae-X" it sounds extremely hokey to me and I know
a couple people who have this and they still get crud... the key is to
use fine filters and change the element often.


When a heavy load item like the AC or water heater kicks on you get a
little black soot on the water, almost like turbo lag.... but its not
turbo charged.
I was thinking a poor injection pattern due to washed out or fouled
tips.

Yep, possible... Could also be timing or a governor adjustment. I'm sure
not a diesel expert. I am leery of pulling things apart, but it sounds
like it's due anyway.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe

When CM is referring to blunts, I don't think they're the kind you have in
mind.

John Cairns

Amen!

Rusty tanks, parrafin residue, acid build up, actinic keratosis,
mitochondrial reflux, low fuel pressure, overheating of oil, hydrogenization
of viscuous amoilents, gasket flaking, carbonization of ionic flow ports,
fuel vent clogged, rotted fuel line, and confluent hypergeometric
divergence.

Amen!

Bob Crantz

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your old
filters.

Joe

How hard it is to get diesel smell off your hands?


"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Ever bother to cut your filters up? Not blunt filters that Mooron
uses, but your Fuel Oil and Water.

You should, you can learn much about whats going on.

For 5 asa points tell me 5 things you can learn by cutting up your
old
filters.

Joe