Oz... it seems to me like the general trend is to blame the animal for the
attack ... when in reality it is usually the people with no comprehension of
the world they inhabit that are to blame.

I don't hold much respect for 4x4 campers and even less for people that can
be so easily undone by a predator with the brain of a chook.

It's time people learned that ability to access does in no way guarantee
safety. They should have been fined for killing the Salty and fined again
for gross stupidity.

No bravery was displayed here.... Idiocy was displayed!
That Croc could have been subdued in seconds by someone with an iota of
comprehension of their habitat, trigger systems and physical abilities....
without a gun. There was no reason for the attack if the "victim" had even
the base understanding of what makes a Crocodile act/react.

We have idiots up here who lament bear attacks... bears don't attack without
reason. Yet every year idiots fall prey to them. Good Riddance! I'm all for
the bears! I'm also all for the Crocs...and the Sharks!

I would have preferred to see the lot eaten by the Croc...

I will nonetheless concede.... that the actions of the Lady was
courageous... even though the initiation of the attack rests squarely on
their own shoulders.

What a totally ridiculous situation and an unnecessary lost of life.... for
the Croc.

Ban the human Idiots.... why did they have a gun to begin with?? don't you
folks have laws against such things?

Only Cowards and Idiots need guns to defend themselves.... especially in the
Bush!

CM





OzOne wrote in message ...
On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 10:20:42 +1300, Nav
scribbled thusly:

Great story. I would never camp close to a beach or a river in the North
-those salties scare the hell out of me!

Cheers

This was apparently the first instance where a croc had wandered so
far without anything to draw it in.
Apparently the people did all the right things, food etc up the other
end of the beach an all the rest.

Rangers are at a loss to explain just why the thing went as far as it
did up where they were camped.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Capt. Mooron wrote:


That Croc could have been subdued in seconds by someone with an iota of
comprehension of their habitat, trigger systems and physical abilities....
without a gun. There was no reason for the attack if the "victim" had even
the base understanding of what makes a Crocodile act/react.


Have you ever seen a salty up close? Let me guess you'd discuss it with
him as he's dragging "lunch" back to the water??

You NIT.

Cheers

"Nav" wrote in message
...
Have you ever seen a salty up close? Let me guess you'd discuss it with
him as he's dragging "lunch" back to the water??

You NIT.

Dragging??? What no "Death Roll"??? It let go when a 60 year old granny
jumps it??

Pardon my french but.... **** OFF!

Face it Nav... they have a set of jaws... are in their element in the
water. This Croc was on dry land! Burst speed is maybe 20kph for about 20
meters. Get a grip and remove the base fear from your reaction. The croc is
severely limited in it's ability to attack a land based mammal that can
sprint to 18 kph over a hundred meters in seconds.... never mind comprehend
it's surroundings beyond base instinct!! It's hunting food... man is not the
natural prey. Something attracted it..... that aspect seems to be lacking!

It's a lot like the Bear Attack I heard about a few years ago... everyone
blamed the bear as a killer... it was after a detailed investigation they
found out the small dog they had with them had gone out... found the bear...
angered it and then ran back home into the tent.... you can guess what
happened when a 1200lb angry Grizzly runs into a tent of sleeping campers!

Live with your unreasoned fear if you must.... but don't blame the animal
for human idiocy! It sounds a lot like a "Victim" statement!

Your reasoning is disgusting in it's abject ignorance!

I expected better from you...

CM

Mooron the man was asleep in his tent when the croc grabbed him and was
dragging him back to the water. The death roll is not carried out in
these circumastances. You really should not underestimate the pulling
power of a 300kg croc. I can just see it now, you with your legs in it
jaws trying to hold onto sand to stop being pulled into the water all
the while arguing with it that it's not playing by your rules.

The very brave granny jumped on it's back to slow it's progress to the
water while a gun was being fetched to stop it.

Get real man! These salties are really dangerous. You ARE lunch -if they
can sneak up on you and there's not a damn thing you can do if they've
got hold of you -unless you happen to have a weapon to hand.

Cheers

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Nav" wrote in message
...

Have you ever seen a salty up close? Let me guess you'd discuss it with
him as he's dragging "lunch" back to the water??

You NIT.


Dragging??? What no "Death Roll"??? It let go when a 60 year old granny
jumps it??

Pardon my french but.... **** OFF!

Face it Nav... they have a set of jaws... are in their element in the
water. This Croc was on dry land! Burst speed is maybe 20kph for about 20
meters. Get a grip and remove the base fear from your reaction. The croc is
severely limited in it's ability to attack a land based mammal that can
sprint to 18 kph over a hundred meters in seconds.... never mind comprehend
it's surroundings beyond base instinct!! It's hunting food... man is not the
natural prey. Something attracted it..... that aspect seems to be lacking!

It's a lot like the Bear Attack I heard about a few years ago... everyone
blamed the bear as a killer... it was after a detailed investigation they
found out the small dog they had with them had gone out... found the bear...
angered it and then ran back home into the tent.... you can guess what
happened when a 1200lb angry Grizzly runs into a tent of sleeping campers!

Live with your unreasoned fear if you must.... but don't blame the animal
for human idiocy! It sounds a lot like a "Victim" statement!

Your reasoning is disgusting in it's abject ignorance!

I expected better from you...

CM

"Nav" wrote in message
...
Mooron the man was asleep in his tent when the croc grabbed him and was
dragging him back to the water. The death roll is not carried out in these
circumastances. You really should not underestimate the pulling power of a
300kg croc. I can just see it now, you with your legs in it jaws trying to
hold onto sand to stop being pulled into the water all the while arguing
with it that it's not playing by your rules.

Nav... leave your emotional fears of dangerous animals behind and attempt to
logically deduce what might have occured.... the man was in a friggin' tent
Nav.... how much nylon can a croc ingest??? You expect me to believe this
croc undid the zipper and picked out the plumpest legs???

Think Nav... 10 square meters of non rip nylon that would have carried the
entire weight of everyone in the tent plus entanglement factors. No way
Bubba.
The campers panicked out of fear of the same stories you want to subject us
to.... it won't wash with me. I've seen entirely way too many big predators
up close to understand that a reason is required to intiate an attack.
Hunger don't cut it all the time. Opportunity always will.

Crocs aren't some sort of super predator ... if they were the US forces
would be utilizing them. There are lots of animals on this planet much more
dangerous than a Salty. You are sounding like an American... believing your
own propoganda!

I've been 10 feet from a Polar Bear, meters from a Grizzly.... dove with
sharks.... big deal. I wasn't prey nor presented myself as such. I was with
my Dad in the Congo when he killed a 20 foot Croc that had eaten several
villagers.[ Ciraca 1959] I was only 4 years old but remember his words....
loosely transalted from Lingala .." no hard feelings my friend" prior to a
..500 Nitro Express shot to the head. That son of a bitch cut a swath across
the river in a death run so violent it sent wakes to both shores. I remember
that clearly! I know the power Nav.... I also know they are opportunistic
hunters and ambush predators.... my Dad made certain I understood and
respected all animals.... especially those I intended to hunt. He has 21
elephants, 12 Lions, 8 Leopards and 6 Crocs plus numerous other kills to his
credit. I was always taught that I was the Apex Predator... as such I should
show respect and understand the behaviour of the animals I encountered.

You seem to live your life in unreasoned fear of somthing you do not
understand... that makes you weak in my eyes.

So be it..... be afraid. It will certainly overshadow any abilty to respect
such a fine animal as a Salty.

Idiot Humans... we have a plethora of.... let the Crocs eat away I say!

CM

Ya know, sometimes Mooron, you sound just like my 8 year old grandson...but
8 year olds are often forgiven their braggadocio and their delusions.....

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message
...

"Nav" wrote in message
...
Mooron the man was asleep in his tent when the croc grabbed him and was
dragging him back to the water. The death roll is not carried out in
these circumastances. You really should not underestimate the pulling
power of a 300kg croc. I can just see it now, you with your legs in it
jaws trying to hold onto sand to stop being pulled into the water all the
while arguing with it that it's not playing by your rules.

Nav... leave your emotional fears of dangerous animals behind and attempt
to logically deduce what might have occured.... the man was in a friggin'
tent Nav.... how much nylon can a croc ingest??? You expect me to believe
this croc undid the zipper and picked out the plumpest legs???

Think Nav... 10 square meters of non rip nylon that would have carried the
entire weight of everyone in the tent plus entanglement factors. No way
Bubba.
The campers panicked out of fear of the same stories you want to subject
us to.... it won't wash with me. I've seen entirely way too many big
predators up close to understand that a reason is required to intiate an
attack. Hunger don't cut it all the time. Opportunity always will.

Crocs aren't some sort of super predator ... if they were the US forces
would be utilizing them. There are lots of animals on this planet much
more dangerous than a Salty. You are sounding like an American...
believing your own propoganda!

I've been 10 feet from a Polar Bear, meters from a Grizzly.... dove with
sharks.... big deal. I wasn't prey nor presented myself as such. I was
with my Dad in the Congo when he killed a 20 foot Croc that had eaten
several villagers.[ Ciraca 1959] I was only 4 years old but remember his
words.... loosely transalted from Lingala .." no hard feelings my friend"
prior to a .500 Nitro Express shot to the head. That son of a bitch cut a
swath across the river in a death run so violent it sent wakes to both
shores. I remember that clearly! I know the power Nav.... I also know they
are opportunistic hunters and ambush predators.... my Dad made certain I
understood and respected all animals.... especially those I intended to
hunt. He has 21 elephants, 12 Lions, 8 Leopards and 6 Crocs plus numerous
other kills to his credit. I was always taught that I was the Apex
Predator... as such I should show respect and understand the behaviour of
the animals I encountered.

You seem to live your life in unreasoned fear of somthing you do not
understand... that makes you weak in my eyes.

So be it..... be afraid. It will certainly overshadow any abilty to
respect such a fine animal as a Salty.

Idiot Humans... we have a plethora of.... let the Crocs eat away I say!

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:

my Dad made certain I understood and
respected all animals.... especially those I intended to hunt. He has 21
elephants, 12 Lions, 8 Leopards and 6 Crocs plus numerous other kills to his
credit. I was always taught that I was the Apex Predator... as such I should
show respect and understand the behaviour of the animals I encountered.

Your mode of respect for animals is quite bizarre. I'd guess it would be
be a sort of Neanderthal logic.

Cheers

"Capt. Mooron" wrote in message ...
"Nav" wrote in message
...
Have you ever seen a salty up close? Let me guess you'd discuss it with
him as he's dragging "lunch" back to the water??

You NIT.

Dragging??? What no "Death Roll"??? It let go when a 60 year old granny
jumps it??

Pardon my french but.... **** OFF!

Face it Nav... they have a set of jaws... are in their element in the
water. This Croc was on dry land! Burst speed is maybe 20kph for about 20
meters. Get a grip and remove the base fear from your reaction. The croc is
severely limited in it's ability to attack a land based mammal that can
sprint to 18 kph over a hundred meters in seconds.... never mind comprehend
it's surroundings beyond base instinct!! It's hunting food... man is not the
natural prey.

Got some bad news for you, CM. Man *is* natural prey for sal****er
crocs. Back in the 'old' days, the aboriginals apparently used to do
river crossings at a sprint. The logic was that the croc, if about,
would nail one of the older, slower members.

I agree with you about people in croc habitat needing to have a clue,
but crocs will kill people for food. It's not like a bear raiding a
tent for food & the occupant merely being in the way.

PDW

"Capt. Mooron" wrote
..... The croc is
severely limited in it's ability to attack a land based mammal that can
sprint to 18 kph over a hundred meters in seconds.... never mind comprehend
it's surroundings beyond base instinct!! It's hunting food... man is not the
natural prey.


Peter Wiley wrote:
Got some bad news for you, CM. Man *is* natural prey for sal****er
crocs. Back in the 'old' days, the aboriginals apparently used to do
river crossings at a sprint. The logic was that the croc, if about,
would nail one of the older, slower members.

That's taking recycling a bit too far IMHO.


I agree with you about people in croc habitat needing to have a clue,
but crocs will kill people for food. It's not like a bear raiding a
tent for food & the occupant merely being in the way.

I've never seen one but never want to. Florida alligators can't compare.
I've read accounts of the Australian sal****er croc grabbing people out
of boats... heard of one case of one grabbing a person out of a stalled
jeep... not fun.

DSK

DSK wrote in message et...
"Capt. Mooron" wrote
..... The croc is
severely limited in it's ability to attack a land based mammal that can
sprint to 18 kph over a hundred meters in seconds.... never mind comprehend
it's surroundings beyond base instinct!! It's hunting food... man is not the
natural prey.


Peter Wiley wrote:
Got some bad news for you, CM. Man *is* natural prey for sal****er
crocs. Back in the 'old' days, the aboriginals apparently used to do
river crossings at a sprint. The logic was that the croc, if about,
would nail one of the older, slower members.

That's taking recycling a bit too far IMHO.

Shrug. Don't know if it's true, but the people did have to cross the
rivers and the crocs did lie in wait for prey. A 12' sal****er croc is
immune to any primitive weapon I can think of, offhand. IIRC the
biggest salty recorded is about 18'. Supposed to get over 20' but no
official measurement AFAIK. Thing is, their girth & weight starts
going up disproportionately with length once they're over around 10',
I think.

I've never seen one but never want to. Florida alligators can't compare.
I've read accounts of the Australian sal****er croc grabbing people out
of boats... heard of one case of one grabbing a person out of a stalled
jeep... not fun.

They've grabbed outboards off boats. Big crocs are territorial.
They're dangerous in their habitat. Whether this particular story is
light on fact or not doesn't really matter.

PDW