Martin Baxter wrote:

Nav wrote:





I never fired a modified FN (i.e. with full auto) but the recoil was
quite large and seemed (to me) to make the semi-auto about as much as
one would want. Could you keep it anywhere near a target on auto? How
did you make it fire a 3 round burst -was it a further modification?


Here we used to use two versions of the FN, designated FNC1 and FNC2,
(FN Canada), C1 was semi auto with twenty round clips, the C2 was full
auto with a bipod, heavier barrel, modified barrel attachment to
facilitate rapid changes, and thirty round clips.

I have fired both weapons extensively, you are correct, on full auto the
C2 climbs up to the left something fierce, the idea is to squeeze of a
short burst of three rounds, it takes a bit of practice.

That being said the weapon is ridiculously expensive, complicated, heavy
and far too powerful to make a good assault rifle.


Yes, I agree the recoil is (was) not well enough controlled to make it a
great automatic weapon. It was also not that accurate I(MHO) as compared
to the .303 I shot in competition. However I often ended the day with a
sore shoulder from firing .303 in a shirt and never had such a problem
with the FN SLR. People still use .303 for hunting here -how about in
Canada?

I'm still not able to get out of Doug exactly what this FN FAL weapon
was that fired an (accurate?) automatic 3 round burst. From my
recollection of the firing meachnaism I don't see how it could be
accomplished without a major rework of the trigger and selector
mechanisms. I wonder if it would be worthwhile to do such a thing with
better automatic weapons around.

Cheers

Nav wrote:
Well I've not found a reference to the FN-FAL rifle you said you fired
in automatic 3 round bursts.

Did I say it was an FAL? I don't think so, because I don't think it was.
FN is a manufacturer & design group that makes many different weapons.

... I am well aware of how it can be simply
altered to be full automatic (if that is what one wants).

All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in one's
garage, is nonsense.

... Can you help
me find how it can be altered in the way you describe?

It wasn't altered, it was built that way. I believe that it has an
additional gas expansion chamber to operate the 3-round selected fire.

... Is it possible
you were firing some other weapon?

There were several 3-round capable weapons being handed around, one was
the well known H&K MP5.

The one I would really like a chance to try is the G-11
http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm
Do you think this would make a good cruiser's gun?

DSK

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

Well I've not found a reference to the FN-FAL rifle you said you fired
in automatic 3 round bursts.


Did I say it was an FAL? I don't think so, because I don't think it was.
FN is a manufacturer & design group that makes many different weapons.

Well, I'll quote you:

"Once upon a time while roaming around at a shooting event on a military
base, I got a chance to try out a couple of select fire military arms
(including a Galil and an FN-FAL) with 3-round burst. It is a huge
advantage over timed fire. "


... I am well aware of how it can be simply altered to be full
automatic (if that is what one wants).


All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in one's
garage, is nonsense.

Well it's hard to file hardened steel, grinding is better ;) I've not
seen the modification but it was certainly talked about. What is the
difference between the semi-automatic sear and the automatic one?


... Can you help me find how it can be altered in the way you describe?


It wasn't altered, it was built that way. I believe that it has an
additional gas expansion chamber to operate the 3-round selected fire.


That sounds like a complicated modification. Did the rifle look like a
FN-FAL or was there an extra bulge in it for the extra gas expansion
chamber? Can you find a picture of it?


There were several 3-round capable weapons being handed around, one was
the well known H&K MP5.

The one I would really like a chance to try is the G-11
http://www.hkpro.com/g11.htm
Do you think this would make a good cruiser's gun?


It looks OTT. Complicated mechanism + caseless ammunition? How would it
take being drenched in salt water? I would think simple mechanisms are
better at sea -if you must have anything more dangerous than a flare gun...

I hear arguments both ways on the gun issue. I would guess that on a
small yacht you are not going to survive a fire fight with pirates so it
may be better not to start one. As far as I know, big ships relay on
trying to stop boarding rather than enter into a fire fight if boarded.

Cheers

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:38:46 -0400, DSK wrote
this crap:

All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in one's
garage, is nonsense.


No it's not, dumbass. You've just shown that you have no concept of
how an automatic weapon works.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"Horvath" wrote
On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:38:46 -0400, DSK wrote

All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in one's
garage, is nonsense.


No it's not, dumbass. You've just shown that you have no concept of
how an automatic weapon works.

Horvath is right. A fool I knew did indeed convert a semi-auto .22 rifle to
fire full auto by grinding on the sear. Trouble is it would not quit
shooting until it ran out of ammo! Undeterred, he tried a similar trick on
a 9mm pistol. That worked a whole lot better .... for about 20 rounds. Then
it broke its firing pin, requiring him to send it back to the factory for
bolt replacement. No, he was not stupid enough to send an illegally mod'd
gun back to a mfgr who was being closely watched by BATF so the $400 gun
never fired again. So you can make most any semi-auto into a full auto -
they just don't shoot for long. I suspose that's one reason an AR-16 costs
over 2X the price of an AR-15.

Did I say it was an FAL? I don't think so, because I don't think it
was. FN is a manufacturer & design group that makes many different
weapons.

Nav wrote:
Well, I'll quote you:

"Once upon a time while roaming around at a shooting event on a military
base, I got a chance to try out a couple of select fire military arms
(including a Galil and an FN-FAL) with 3-round burst. It is a huge
advantage over timed fire. "

Well, if that's an accurate quote, then it was my mistake. I meant FN.




All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in
one's garage, is nonsense.


Well it's hard to file hardened steel, grinding is better ;) I've not
seen the modification but it was certainly talked about.

Yep, by people who don't know any better, like Horvath. It's just
another old wives tale. Ask a gunsmith.

DSK

Vito wrote:

"Horvath" wrote

On Sun, 03 Oct 2004 17:38:46 -0400, DSK wrote


All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in one's
garage, is nonsense.


No it's not, dumbass. You've just shown that you have no concept of
how an automatic weapon works.


Horvath is right. A fool I knew did indeed convert a semi-auto .22 rifle to
fire full auto by grinding on the sear. Trouble is it would not quit
shooting until it ran out of ammo! Undeterred, he tried a similar trick on
a 9mm pistol. That worked a whole lot better .... for about 20 rounds. Then
it broke its firing pin, requiring him to send it back to the factory for
bolt replacement. No, he was not stupid enough to send an illegally mod'd
gun back to a mfgr who was being closely watched by BATF so the $400 gun
never fired again. So you can make most any semi-auto into a full auto -
they just don't shoot for long. I suspose that's one reason an AR-16 costs
over 2X the price of an AR-15.


You must be wrong, Doug has fired all sorts of weapons and is an expert
mechanical engineer. He's always right. How dare you say he's wrong!

Cheers

On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:52:28 +1300, Nav wrote
this crap:



You must be wrong, Doug has fired all sorts of weapons and is an expert
mechanical engineer. He's always right. How dare you say he's wrong!


Duh! You seem to forget that I was once one of the biggest arms
dealers in the world.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Horvath wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 09:52:28 +1300, Nav wrote
this crap:


You must be wrong, Doug has fired all sorts of weapons and is an expert
mechanical engineer. He's always right. How dare you say he's wrong!



Duh! You seem to forget that I was once one of the biggest arms
dealers in the world.


Was that a wet dream you once had?

Cheers

DSK wrote:

Did I say it was an FAL? I don't think so, because I don't think it
was. FN is a manufacturer & design group that makes many different
weapons.


Nav wrote:

Well, I'll quote you:

"Once upon a time while roaming around at a shooting event on a
military base, I got a chance to try out a couple of select fire
military arms (including a Galil and an FN-FAL) with 3-round burst. It
is a huge advantage over timed fire. "


Well, if that's an accurate quote, then it was my mistake. I meant FN.




All that stuff about making a semi into a fully automatic by filing a
little off the sear, or some other simple change one might make in
one's garage, is nonsense.



Well it's hard to file hardened steel, grinding is better ;) I've not
seen the modification but it was certainly talked about.


Yep, by people who don't know any better, like Horvath. It's just
another old wives tale. Ask a gunsmith.


Can't some sears can be modified by grinding while other mechanisms need
a drilling jig or new plates?

Cheers