Assault weapon ban enf not good enough
 

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Joe

Joe wrote:

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Cyclic sounds a bit high for a hand held antipersonnel weapon, 600 rpm would be more appropriate;
this was one of the good points of the old Thompsons and "grease" guns (same with Patchets and Stens).
1200 rpm is more suited for anti-aircraft use,.... anyone for hang gliding?

Cheers
Marty

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

In a second and a half you'd be out of ammo and somebody would kick your ass.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

"Joe" wrote in message
om...
Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?


Cuz they're the only ones who could afford the ammo to shoot them?

In article ,
Joe wrote:
Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Why don't we make it mandatory that all high school students be
required to carry them to classes.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 29 Sep 2004 07:26:32 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Because you'll runout of bullets in 1.6 seconds. Get a weapon with a
rate of fire around 350 rounds per minute.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 07:26:32 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Because you'll runout of bullets in 1.6 seconds. Get a weapon with a
rate of fire around 350 rounds per minute.

Horass doesn't have to worry about it, since according to his
boyfriend, he shoots blanks.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Joe wrote:
(Jonathan Ganz) wrote in message ...
In article ,
Joe wrote:
Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Why don't we make it mandatory that all high school students be
required to carry them to classes.

Because that would be as dumb as you.

Nah, you're clearly the winner on dumbness.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Horvath wrote in message . ..
On 29 Sep 2004 07:26:32 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Why should cops and the FBI be the only ones able to own one?

Because you'll runout of bullets in 1.6 seconds. Get a weapon with a
rate of fire around 350 rounds per minute.

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.

Joe








Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Joe wrote:
You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.

The 3-round burst is what the very high cycle rate is for. It's very
effective.

Once upon a time while roaming around at a shooting event on a military
base, I got a chance to try out a couple of select fire military arms
(including a Galil and an FN-FAL) with 3-round burst. It is a huge
advantage over timed fire.

BTW since our gov't in it's wisdom will not let us have such dangerous
toys, the Glaser "safety" slug is a good close approximation. Loses
accuracy at range, but really kicks ass close up.

DSK

On 29 Sep 2004 18:55:33 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:

Because you'll runout of bullets in 1.6 seconds. Get a weapon with a
rate of fire around 350 rounds per minute.

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.


It's called a "Magazine."





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:16:00 -0400, something compelled DSK
, to say:

BTW since our gov't in it's wisdom will not let us have such dangerous
toys, the Glaser "safety" slug is a good close approximation. Loses
accuracy at range, but really kicks ass close up.

If I ever get shot, I hope it's with a Glasser. And the FBI
agrees with me.

In article ,
Steve Daniels wrote:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:16:00 -0400, something compelled DSK
, to say:

BTW since our gov't in it's wisdom will not let us have such dangerous
toys, the Glaser "safety" slug is a good close approximation. Loses
accuracy at range, but really kicks ass close up.

If I ever get shot, I hope it's with a Glasser. And the FBI
agrees with me.

I doubt the FBI would shoot you. Perhaps one of your boyfriends, but
Hoover is dead.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

DSK wrote:

Joe wrote:

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully
automatic. And they do sell extra clips.


The 3-round burst is what the very high cycle rate is for. It's very
effective.

Once upon a time while roaming around at a shooting event on a military
base, I got a chance to try out a couple of select fire military arms
(including a Galil and an FN-FAL) with 3-round burst. It is a huge
advantage over timed fire.


I never fired a modified FN (i.e. with full auto) but the recoil was
quite large and seemed (to me) to make the semi-auto about as much as
one would want. Could you keep it anywhere near a target on auto? How
did you make it fire a 3 round burst -was it a further modification?

Cheers

"Martin Baxter" wrote in message

Joe wrote:

Now that that usless uneffective ban is gone we now need to focus on
getting rid of the ban on fully automatic weapons for law abiding
citizens.

Glock make an awesome fully automatic pistol called the model 18. It
can fire 1200 9mm rounds per min. Comes with a 32 round clip.

Cyclic sounds a bit high for a hand held antipersonnel weapon, 600 rpm
would be more appropriate;
this was one of the good points of the old Thompsons and "grease" guns
(same with Patchets and Stens).
1200 rpm is more suited for anti-aircraft use,.... anyone for hang
gliding?

The Uzi pistol has roughly the same cycle rate, and would empty a 30+ round
magazine in a bit under 2 seconds. Not terribly worthwhile as a defense
piece, except of course in Hollywood where such guns rip off several
thousand rounds before necessitating reloading..

Max

Steve Daniels wrote:
If I ever get shot, I hope it's with a Glasser. And the FBI
agrees with me.

Why would you hope to get shot with anything, much less a specialized
antipersonnel round?

Some years ago, various agencies were using Glaser loads but it wouldn't
surprise me if something better was out there now. Why do you and the
FBI think they're ineffective?

DSK

Nav wrote:
I never fired a modified FN (i.e. with full auto) but the recoil was
quite large and seemed (to me) to make the semi-auto about as much as
one would want. Could you keep it anywhere near a target on auto?

I didn't fire it on full auto from the shoulder. With a bipod it's no
problem.

There are a lot of weapons with worse recoil, and not as good a balance,
as the FN. The roller lock makes the recoil-reload action relatively smooth.

... How
did you make it fire a 3 round burst -was it a further modification?

It's one of the settings for select fire. Pull the trigger, it squirts
out 3. Usually a pretty tight group even from the shoulder, too.

DSK

Maxprop wrote:

"M?

The Uzi pistol has roughly the same cycle rate, and would empty a 30+ round
magazine in a bit under 2 seconds. Not terribly worthwhile as a defense
piece, except of course in Hollywood where such guns rip off several
thousand rounds before necessitating reloading..

Or rebarreling?

Cheers
Marty

Nav wrote:





I never fired a modified FN (i.e. with full auto) but the recoil was
quite large and seemed (to me) to make the semi-auto about as much as
one would want. Could you keep it anywhere near a target on auto? How
did you make it fire a 3 round burst -was it a further modification?


Here we used to use two versions of the FN, designated FNC1 and FNC2, (FN Canada), C1 was semi auto with twenty round clips, the C2 was full auto with
a bipod, heavier barrel, modified barrel attachment to facilitate rapid changes, and thirty round clips.

I have fired both weapons extensively, you are correct, on full auto the C2 climbs up to the left something fierce, the idea is to squeeze of a short
burst of three rounds, it takes a bit of practice.

That being said the weapon is ridiculously expensive, complicated, heavy and far too powerful to make a good assault rifle.

Cheers
Marty

I want to get shot with a Napoleonic Howitzer!

Gilligan

"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:16:00 -0400, something compelled DSK
, to say:

BTW since our gov't in it's wisdom will not let us have such dangerous
toys, the Glaser "safety" slug is a good close approximation. Loses
accuracy at range, but really kicks ass close up.

If I ever get shot, I hope it's with a Glasser. And the FBI
agrees with me.

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

I doubt the FBI would shoot you.

That's what the Weaver family in Idaho and the religious kooks in Waco
thought too.

"DSK" wrote

Some years ago, various agencies were using Glaser loads but it wouldn't
surprise me if something better was out there now. Why do you and the
FBI think they're ineffective?

Ineffective is a bad word. Before Glaser, court baliffs and others expecting
to engage dangerous criminals but avoid "collateral damage" in a crowded
courtroom, et cetera, handloaded .38 cal HBWCs upside down to create a super
hollow point that hit hard but didn't come out the other side a la Fearless
Fosdick to kill the judge or jurors. The Glaser "Safety" round does that
even better, making it a good choice in a home or apartment where one would
prefer not to penetrate walls. However, being designed NOT to penetrate
far, it cannot produce a deep deadly wound channel nor penetrate a magazine,
car window or much else without loosing knock-down capability. It is very
effective at what it was designed to do but there are far more deadly
general purpose bullets available.

In article et,
Gilligan wrote:
I want to get shot with a Napoleonic Howitzer!

Gilligan

I would like to get shot at with no result.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Vito wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote

I doubt the FBI would shoot you.

That's what the Weaver family in Idaho and the religious kooks in Waco
thought too.

Well, you're right. If they didn't have any guns, they wouldn't have
been shot. :-)



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Horvath wrote in message . ..
On 29 Sep 2004 18:55:33 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:

Because you'll runout of bullets in 1.6 seconds. Get a weapon with a
rate of fire around 350 rounds per minute.

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.


It's called a "Magazine."


Jarhead huh?

Joe





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Vito wrote:
Ineffective is a bad word. Before Glaser, court baliffs and others expecting
to engage dangerous criminals but avoid "collateral damage" in a crowded
courtroom, et cetera, handloaded .38 cal HBWCs upside down to create a super
hollow point that hit hard but didn't come out the other side a la Fearless
Fosdick to kill the judge or jurors. The Glaser "Safety" round does that
even better, making it a good choice in a home or apartment where one would
prefer not to penetrate walls. However, being designed NOT to penetrate
far, it cannot produce a deep deadly wound channel nor penetrate a magazine,
car window or much else without loosing knock-down capability. It is very
effective at what it was designed to do but there are far more deadly
general purpose bullets available.

Once again Vito, you manage to conceal a tiny grain of truth in a load
of twaddle.

http://www.m1911.org/ammo.htm#gss

http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine...guns02.htm#gss

Glaser slugs are designed for higher velocity, thus more energy, and to
shed that energy almost immediately into the target. The result is a
tremendous wound channel, very deadly. The little thing you got right is
that they are not designed to penetrate windows, doors, etc etc.

DSK

On 30 Sep 2004 12:13:39 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:
It's called a "Magazine."


Jarhead huh?


Them's fighting words.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 30 Sep 2004 12:13:39 -0700, (Joe) wrote
this crap:
It's called a "Magazine."


Jarhead huh?


Them's fighting words.

Translation: He's scared ****less.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

DSK wrote:

Nav wrote:

I never fired a modified FN (i.e. with full auto) but the recoil was
quite large and seemed (to me) to make the semi-auto about as much as
one would want. Could you keep it anywhere near a target on auto?


I didn't fire it on full auto from the shoulder. With a bipod it's no
problem.

There are a lot of weapons with worse recoil, and not as good a balance,
as the FN. The roller lock makes the recoil-reload action relatively
smooth.

... How did you make it fire a 3 round burst -was it a further
modification?


It's one of the settings for select fire. Pull the trigger, it squirts
out 3. Usually a pretty tight group even from the shoulder, too.


I think it must be a different rifle than the NATO version 'cos the
selector on the ones I've fired only had a safe and semi position. To
modify it to full auto was, I believe, a courts martial offense. I must
admit that I don't see how the simple firing mechanism could be modified
to make a 3 round burst -full auto is simple the selector just needs
filing down so that when rotated further it can't recatch the mechanism.
As far as balance, I'd say the muzzle tended to kick up about 4" so that
by the time you've let it fall and the next round is chambered it would
be hard to be accurate if the next shot were fired as soon as the recoil
mechanism closed the breach. In that sense I'd say it was a bit muzzle
end light for accuracy on full auto.

Cheers

Which bit do you want to loose?

Cheers

Gilligan wrote:

I want to get shot with a Napoleonic Howitzer!

Gilligan

"Steve Daniels" wrote in message
...

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 22:16:00 -0400, something compelled DSK
, to say:


BTW since our gov't in it's wisdom will not let us have such dangerous
toys, the Glaser "safety" slug is a good close approximation. Loses
accuracy at range, but really kicks ass close up.

If I ever get shot, I hope it's with a Glasser. And the FBI
agrees with me.

On 29 Sep 2004 18:55:33 -0700, (Joe) wrote:
snip

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.

Joe


Magazines Joe. :o)
Clips don't have springs, they just hold the rounds together. The
feed spring is in the weapon. Think M-1.
Magazines have springs to feed the rounds. Think M-14 or M 16.
Mark E. Williams

Sorry, pet peeve #1. LOL

Maynard G. Krebbs wrote:

On 29 Sep 2004 18:55:33 -0700, (Joe) wrote:
snip

You can set it for select fire. A 3 round burst, single, or fully automatic.
And they do sell extra clips.

Joe



Magazines Joe. :o)
Clips don't have springs, they just hold the rounds together. The
feed spring is in the weapon. Think M-1.
Magazines have springs to feed the rounds. Think M-14 or M 16.
Mark E. Williams

Sorry, pet peeve #1. LOL

That's your #1?????

Cheers

It's one of the settings for select fire. Pull the trigger, it squirts
out 3. Usually a pretty tight group even from the shoulder, too.


Nav wrote:
I think it must be a different rifle than the NATO version 'cos the
selector on the ones I've fired only had a safe and semi position.

All the NATO infantry arms I'm familiar with have full auto, some have
3-round burst.

As for 3-round burst selective fire, you could learn a little about it
with a very simple Google search.

... To
modify it to full auto was, I believe, a courts martial offense.


I didn't realize that any national army didn't trust it's infantrymen
with the option of full auto fire.

... I must
admit that I don't see how the simple firing mechanism could be modified
to make a 3 round burst -full auto is simple the selector just needs
filing down so that when rotated further it can't recatch the mechanism.

Why do you try and bull**** everyone when you ought to realize you don't
have a clue what you're talking about?

And to think, in this great modern age of the Info Superhighway, you
could become an expert of at least Jaxxian proportions very simply.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search


As far as balance, I'd say the muzzle tended to kick up about 4" so that
by the time you've let it fall and the next round is chambered it would
be hard to be accurate if the next shot were fired as soon as the recoil
mechanism closed the breach. In that sense I'd say it was a bit muzzle
end light for accuracy on full auto.

IIRC the 3-round burst fires from open bolt.

You don't know what that means either, do you?

DSK

DSK wrote:

It's one of the settings for select fire. Pull the trigger, it
squirts out 3. Usually a pretty tight group even from the shoulder, too.


Nav wrote:

I think it must be a different rifle than the NATO version 'cos the
selector on the ones I've fired only had a safe and semi position.


All the NATO infantry arms I'm familiar with have full auto, some have
3-round burst.

As for 3-round burst selective fire, you could learn a little about it
with a very simple Google search.

... To modify it to full auto was, I believe, a courts martial offense.



I didn't realize that any national army didn't trust it's infantrymen
with the option of full auto fire.

... I must admit that I don't see how the simple firing mechanism
could be modified to make a 3 round burst -full auto is simple the
selector just needs filing down so that when rotated further it can't
recatch the mechanism.


Why do you try and bull**** everyone when you ought to realize you don't
have a clue what you're talking about?

But Doug, it's you that is saying the FN FAL has a three round burst
selector, not me. When I fired it that was not the case, and when it was
used by the British Army it had no full auto capability either. When I
took a weapons maintenance course at the British School of infantry at
Warminster (which included servicing and testing the FN semiautomatic
rifle) there was discussion about how it might be illegally modified. At
no time was an automatic controlled burst discussed as an option. I'm
prepared to accept that some clever chap may have worked out how to do
it but I don't see how.


And to think, in this great modern age of the Info Superhighway, you
could become an expert of at least Jaxxian proportions very simply.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...=Google+Search

So, I followed your directions and typed in "FN FAL 3 round burst select
fire" and cant't find a site that says the FN has a three round burst.
But you say it does -so why not post the reference so I can read about it?


As far as balance, I'd say the muzzle tended to kick up about 4" so
that by the time you've let it fall and the next round is chambered it
would be hard to be accurate if the next shot were fired as soon as
the recoil mechanism closed the breach. In that sense I'd say it was a
bit muzzle end light for accuracy on full auto.


IIRC the 3-round burst fires from open bolt.

You don't know what that means either, do you?


No, I have no idea how one might modify a old standard NATO FN FAL to
fire an automatic three round burst. Perhaps you can explain?

Cheers

DSK wrote:

It's one of the settings for select fire. Pull the trigger, it
squirts out 3. Usually a pretty tight group even from the shoulder, too.


I think it must be a different rifle than the NATO version 'cos the
selector on the ones I've fired only had a safe and semi position.


All the NATO infantry arms I'm familiar with have full auto, some have
3-round burst.

As for 3-round burst selective fire, you could learn a little about it
with a very simple Google search.

... To modify it to full auto was, I believe, a courts martial offense.


I didn't realize that any national army didn't trust it's infantrymen
with the option of full auto fire.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/FN%20FAL

"The British adopted their own variant of the FAL and manufactured it
based on an imperial measurement pattern, and incorporated minor
amendments, including folding cocking handle, prong shaped flash
eliminator, folding rear sight, sand removing cuts in the slide and
beefed up magazine catch. The UK variant, and many others, is
semi-automatic only."

Now how do you explain that? It would seem to agree with my recollection
would it not?

Cheers

"Nav" wrote

"The British adopted their own variant of the FAL and manufactured
it
based on an imperial measurement pattern, and incorporated minor
amendments, including folding cocking handle, prong shaped flash
eliminator, folding rear sight, sand removing cuts in the slide and
beefed up magazine catch. The UK variant, and many others, is
semi-automatic only."

Now how do you explain that?

Candy ass limeys?

I didn't realize that any national army didn't trust it's infantrymen
with the option of full auto fire.

Nav wrote:
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/FN%20FAL

"The British adopted their own variant of the FAL
.... The UK variant, and many others, is
semi-automatic only."

Now how do you explain that? It would seem to agree with my recollection
would it not?

I'd explain it by saying that you have only seen one particular type of
FN-FAL. I didn't know about it, therefor I learned something. I'm still
a bit surprised that a standard issue infantry weapon would be
single-fire only. That would really limit firepower.

Now, are you saying there is no such a thing as a gas-operated
auto-loader with a selectable 3 round burst? I don't know if the FAL
ever had that option, but some FN SLRs based on the same technology did.
There are several FN-FAL versions that had semi or full auto.

DSK

DSK wrote:

I didn't realize that any national army didn't trust it's infantrymen
with the option of full auto fire.


Nav wrote:

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/FN%20FAL

"The British adopted their own variant of the FAL .... The UK
variant, and many others, is
semi-automatic only."

Now how do you explain that? It would seem to agree with my
recollection would it not?


I'd explain it by saying that you have only seen one particular type of
FN-FAL. I didn't know about it, therefor I learned something. I'm still
a bit surprised that a standard issue infantry weapon would be
single-fire only. That would really limit firepower.

Now, are you saying there is no such a thing as a gas-operated
auto-loader with a selectable 3 round burst? I don't know if the FAL
ever had that option, but some FN SLRs based on the same technology did.
There are several FN-FAL versions that had semi or full auto.


Well I've not found a reference to the FN-FAL rifle you said you fired
in automatic 3 round bursts. I am well aware of how it can be simply
altered to be full automatic (if that is what one wants). Can you help
me find how it can be altered in the way you describe? Is it possible
you were firing some other weapon?

Cheers