"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
Nobody can doubt Kerry's patriotism.

LOL.............. A bunch of Vietnam vets can after he said everybody
committed atrocities.
Also if he's such a patriot why did he bail out of Nam after 4 months?

Are you suggesting that a patriot would have served more than four months?

How many months did GWB serve?

Are you nuts, Loco?

Regards

Donal
--

On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:56:28 +0100, "Donal"
wrote this crap:

How many months did GWB serve?

Same as Bill Clinton.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

Are you suggesting that a patriot would have served more than four months?
How many months did GWB serve?
Are you nuts, Loco?

I don't know what length of time spent in Nam qualifies one to be a patriot
but I don't know anyone who went to Nam and left in 4 months except Kerry or
dead soldiers.
Bush served his time.
Face it a lot of people of means got out of serving in Viet Nam but it took a
person of real means to go over there grab a few medals and get out in 4
months. Kerry is a phony in more ways than one.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Same as Bill Clinton.

Not true. Clinton went to Europe.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

There's some logic for ya! Bush "served his time" but Kerry had "means"
because
he saw active combat?
Yeah? Holy cow. Loco must be DUMBER than Scotty Potti!.

Why don't you get off the "dumb" crap.
Bush joined the National Guard like a pile of other people. He was a fighter
pilot and his wing could have been sent to Nam at any time. Bush was a person
of means too. I never said he wasn't.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On Wed, 29 Sep 2004 00:56:28 +0100, "Donal"
wrote this crap:

How many months did GWB serve?

Same as Bill Clinton.

YES!! Good one Horass. GWB didn't serve at all... well, except maybe
drinks.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Same as Bill Clinton.

Not true. Clinton went to Europe.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

And honorably at that!


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Are you suggesting that a patriot would have served more than four months?
How many months did GWB serve?
Are you nuts, Loco?

I don't know what length of time spent in Nam qualifies one to be a patriot
but I don't know anyone who went to Nam and left in 4 months except Kerry or
dead soldiers.

So, what you're saying is that you either have very limited direct
experience with VN vets or that you think someone who is wounded three
times, who commands troops in action, who is awarded a bronze and a
silver, and who has the option of leaving, should stay or be declared
unpatriotic.

Bush served his time.

No. He didn't have to spend much time at all in the drunk tank.

Face it a lot of people of means got out of serving in Viet Nam but it took a
person of real means to go over there grab a few medals and get out in 4
months. Kerry is a phony in more ways than one.

Unlike Bush who got his buddies to give him a free pass on actually
finishing his duties under NG service. But, even they couldn't get his
extra 6 mos of duties removed from his record because he failed to
complete his original obligation.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Bobsprit wrote:
Face it a lot of people of means got out of serving in Viet Nam but it took a
person of real means to go over there grab a few medals and get out in 4
months.

There's some logic for ya! Bush "served his time" but Kerry had "means" because
he saw active combat?
Yeah? Holy cow. Loco must be DUMBER than Scotty Potti!

Bob, you shouldn't be pointing out the obvious. It was an incredibly
stupid statement, but loco is taken in by the RNC and the Bu****s.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
There's some logic for ya! Bush "served his time" but Kerry had "means"
because
he saw active combat?
Yeah? Holy cow. Loco must be DUMBER than Scotty Potti!.

Why don't you get off the "dumb" crap.
Bush joined the National Guard like a pile of other people. He was a fighter
pilot and his wing could have been sent to Nam at any time. Bush was a person
of means too. I never said he wasn't.

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Bush had 6 mos added to his requirements
because he failed to complete his duties.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

So, what you're saying is that you either have very limited direct
experience with VN vets or that you think someone who is wounded three
times, who commands troops in action, who is awarded a bronze and a
silver, and who has the option of leaving, should stay or be declared
unpatriotic.

I am a Viet Nam vet. In reply to your other question I don't know of any
soldier who was in Viet Nam who was awarded medals but was not injured to the
point where he couldn't fight left before his tour was up. Kerry's so called
wounds were nothing. Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go home rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period of time.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
So, what you're saying is that you either have very limited direct
experience with VN vets or that you think someone who is wounded three
times, who commands troops in action, who is awarded a bronze and a
silver, and who has the option of leaving, should stay or be declared
unpatriotic.

I am a Viet Nam vet. In reply to your other question I don't know of any
soldier who was in Viet Nam who was awarded medals but was not injured to the
point where he couldn't fight left before his tour was up. Kerry's so called
wounds were nothing. Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go home rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period of time.

Being a vet does not necessarily qualify you to make the
generalization.

Also, it seems like you're saying that since Kerry availed himself of
what he could, that that somehow disqualifies him from being a war
hero and patriotic. Why would anyone want to stay in a place like that
any longer than possible?? His wounds were supposedly nothing, but
somehow you've become the arbiter of what does and what doesn't
qualify, over and above what the military seems to think on the
subject. According to you, he didn't serve admirably, yet according to
Bush he did.

If you want to talk about being unpatriotic, perhaps you should talk
about Bush deciding not to follow a direct order to have a physical,
shirking his duties, and being penalized for it by having his service
agreement extended by 6 months as punishment. Perhaps wasting millions
of dollars of taxpayer money by not doing as he was ordered is ok with
you, but it's not ok with me. I think that's pretty unpatriotic.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 18:37:29 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) said:

Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go home rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period of time.

Or, as some have suggested, he or somebody acting on his behalf knew
somebody higher up who knew about the rule.

And, maybe someone higher up or who had political connections got Bush
into the NG ahead of 100s of others. Or, maybe someone who pressured
Bush's commander to not make waves about his lack of attendance???



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 18:37:29 GMT, (SAIL LOCO) said:

Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go home rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period of time.

Or, as some have suggested, he or somebody acting on his behalf knew
somebody higher up who knew about the rule.

So, just to follow up, what you're saying is that it's not ok to
follow the rules, but it is ok to go around them. I thought ignorance
of the law was no excuse, but it looks like knowing the law is now
wrong. By that logic, following the law should be outlawed, and
breaking the rules ok just fine.

Do you even read what you wrote?? Are you really that ignorant, or is
this just a good show for us non-lawyers?

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 12:48:05 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Or, as some have suggested, he or somebody acting on his behalf knew
somebody higher up who knew about the rule.

So, just to follow up, what you're saying is that it's not ok to
follow the rules, but it is ok to go around them.

A bit tetchy on that one are we? I don't think that's what I said. Simply
reporting the speculations of others without passing judgment on one way or
the other.

So, you're ducking the issue... answer the question pea brain. Well, I
can see why you wouldn't.

Times, they are a changing...

The latest Electoral College data...

http://www.electoral-vote.com

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

On 29 Sep 2004 11:07:32 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Bush had 6 mos added to his requirements
because he failed to complete his duties.


That's bull****. But what about Kerry's missing eight years?





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 11:07:32 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

Coulda, woulda, shoulda. Bush had 6 mos added to his requirements
because he failed to complete his duties.


That's bull****. But what about Kerry's missing eight years?

You're right. Kerry is going to win. What about your boy friends? Are
they turning up missing?
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"SAIL LOCO" wrote in message
...
I am a Viet Nam vet. In reply to your other question I don't know of any
soldier who was in Viet Nam who was awarded medals but was not injured to
the
point where he couldn't fight left before his tour was up. Kerry's so
called
wounds were nothing. Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go home
rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period of
time.

Do you think that GWB would have gone to Vietnam if he knew that he could
get sent home so easily?



Regards


Donal
--

On 29 Sep 2004 15:16:29 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:



That's bull****. But what about Kerry's missing eight years?

You're right. Kerry is going to win.


Kerry is going down faster than a hooker at a bachelor party.






Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 15:16:29 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:



That's bull****. But what about Kerry's missing eight years?

You're right. Kerry is going to win.


Kerry is going down faster than a hooker at a bachelor party.


So, do you know because you've been the hooker or been serviced by one
of the transvestite hookers you're so fond of?

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

Makes you wonder if he didn't plan it that way from the git-go.

SV


"SAIL LOCO" wrote

I am a Viet Nam vet. In reply to your other question I don't know
of any
soldier who was in Viet Nam who was awarded medals but was not
injured to the
point where he couldn't fight left before his tour was up. Kerry's
so called
wounds were nothing. Maybe he knew about the 3 medals you get to go
home rule
and that's why he became "wounded" so many times in a short period
of time.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

In article ,
Scott Vernon wrote:
Makes you wonder if he didn't plan it that way from the git-go.


Clinton planned it right after he had Vince Foster killed.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

And, maybe someone higher up or who had political connections got Bush
into the NG ahead of 100s of others.

Totally untrue! The only "line" to get in the NG was for inlisted men. Bush
was an officer. There was no "line" of officers to jump ahead in. Another
piece of false information.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Being a vet does not necessarily qualify you to make the
generalization.

Nice try. I didn't make any generalizations.

Also, it seems like you're saying that since Kerry availed himself of
what he could, that that somehow disqualifies him from being a war
hero and patriotic. Why would anyone want to stay in a place like that
any longer than possible?? His wounds were supposedly nothing, but
somehow you've become the arbiter of what does and what doesn't
qualify, over and above what the military seems to think on the
subject. .

No, all I'm saying is, like many other vets, is that no one went to Nam and
left in 4 months unless they had their leg blown off. It is my belief that
Kerry went to Viet Nam with a plan in mind for his future. He even told people
and it's documented that he wanted to have a "record" like JFK. I believe his
plan was to get 3 medals and get the hell out. I believe his plan was to use
those medals to make a career in Washington. This is my humble opinion.

If you want to talk about being unpatriotic, perhaps you should talk
about Bush deciding not to follow a direct order to have a physical,
shirking his duties, and being penalized for it by having his service
agreement extended by 6 months as punishment. Perhaps wasting millions
of dollars of taxpayer money by not doing as he was ordered is ok with
you, but it's not ok with me. I think that's pretty unpatriotic..

Please explain how Bush wasted millions of taxpayer's dollars by not doing
what he was ordered to do? It's my understanding that he skipped the physical
which was to qualify himself for another aircraft. The problem was there was
none of the other aircraft in his unit.

S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Do you think that GWB would have gone to Vietnam if he knew that he could
get sent home so easily?

Bush was a fighter pilot in a NG unit that could have been sent to Nam at
any time.
All this is crap anyway. I enlisted in the Navy because I didn't want to
run through rice patties with bullits flying over my head and camp out in tents
with no showers. That doesn't mean I avoided anything. I went to Nam. The
Navy seemed like the smarter way to go at the time to me. Bush chose another
route. Kerry chose Swift boats BEFORE Swift boats did river patrols. When he
got to Nam and the Swift boat policy changed he wanted OUT. That's on the
record.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

On 29 Sep 2004 19:51:50 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

Kerry is going down faster than a hooker at a bachelor party.


So, do you know because you've been the hooker or been serviced by one
of the transvestite hookers you're so fond of?


Only in your homosexual dreams.





Pathetic Earthlings! No one can save you now!

"SAIL LOCO" wrote

Bush was a fighter pilot in a NG unit that could have been sent to Nam
......

Naw, but we should quit beating this dead horse. I have it on good authority
that LBJ had the Texas draft quota set so low that kids from "better"
families (like Bush) didn't need to dodge the draft - there were plenty of
lower class kids to fill Texas' quota. It follows that Junior Bush joined
the ANG for another reason, leaving poor Crawford without a village idiot.

...... Kerry chose Swift boats BEFORE Swift boats did river patrols.
When he
got to Nam and the Swift boat policy changed he wanted OUT.

That confirms what a couple buddies who drove PBRs early on told me - that
Swift Boat jockies were considered REMFs in their day.

OzOne wrote scribbled thusly:


No, all I'm saying is, like many other vets, is that no one went to
Nam and
left in 4 months unless they had their leg blown off.

Or were fortunate enough to wound themself 3 times in that 4 months.

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
And, maybe someone higher up or who had political connections got Bush
into the NG ahead of 100s of others.

Totally untrue! The only "line" to get in the NG was for inlisted men. Bush
was an officer. There was no "line" of officers to jump ahead in. Another
piece of false information.

Where do you get this crap?? I know... Karl Rove.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Being a vet does not necessarily qualify you to make the
generalization.

Nice try. I didn't make any generalizations.

You made tons of them.

No, all I'm saying is, like many other vets, is that no one went to Nam and
left in 4 months unless they had their leg blown off. It is my belief that

This is called a generalization.

Kerry went to Viet Nam with a plan in mind for his future. He even told people
and it's documented that he wanted to have a "record" like JFK. I believe his
plan was to get 3 medals and get the hell out. I believe his plan was to use
those medals to make a career in Washington. This is my humble opinion.

This is called being able to predict the future. Even GWB can't do
that.

Please explain how Bush wasted millions of taxpayer's dollars by not doing
what he was ordered to do? It's my understanding that he skipped the physical
which was to qualify himself for another aircraft. The problem was there was
none of the other aircraft in his unit.

You're understanding would be wrong.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Do you think that GWB would have gone to Vietnam if he knew that he could
get sent home so easily?

Bush was a fighter pilot in a NG unit that could have been sent to Nam at
any time.

Bush failed to do his duty by failing to show up for his physical,
even though he was ordered to do so by his commanding officer. He cost
the taxpayers millions because his training was wasted.

All this is crap anyway. I enlisted in the Navy because I didn't want to
run through rice patties with bullits flying over my head and camp out in tents
with no showers. That doesn't mean I avoided anything. I went to Nam. The
Navy seemed like the smarter way to go at the time to me. Bush chose another
route. Kerry chose Swift boats BEFORE Swift boats did river patrols. When he
got to Nam and the Swift boat policy changed he wanted OUT. That's on the
record.

I agree! And, there was nothing wrong with what Kerry did. He served
honorably, according to just about everyone including Bush. He was a
war hero in those few months.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Horvath wrote:
On 29 Sep 2004 19:51:50 -0700, (Jonathan
Ganz) wrote this crap:

Kerry is going down faster than a hooker at a bachelor party.


So, do you know because you've been the hooker or been serviced by one
of the transvestite hookers you're so fond of?


Only in my homosexual dreams.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote
SAIL LOCO wrote:
...... The only "line" to get in the NG was for inlisted men. Bush
was an officer. There was no "line" of officers to jump ahead in.

A recruiter for the Texas ANG (at the time) told me that LBJ had adjusted
Texas' draft quota so that it could easily be filled without drafting any
privileged kids like Bush so there was so little fear of being drafted to
'nam that, unlike other states, there was no line to get into the ANG and
that the ANG was advertising for anyone willing to take an officer billet
with a 2-year committment. I believe it given LBJ's perchance for pulling
strings for Texas.

Totally untrue! The only "line" to get in the NG was for inlisted men.
Bush
was an officer. There was no "line" of officers to jump ahead in. Another
piece of false information.

Where do you get this crap?? I know... Karl Rove.

Crap? I was alive at the time.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Bush failed to do his duty by failing to show up for his physical,
even though he was ordered to do so by his commanding officer. He cost
the taxpayers millions because his training was wasted.


Big ****ing deal. So the big shot didn't show up for a physical. No money was
wasted on training because the physical was to qualify Bush for an aircraft
that was not available.
A more important question is why won't Kerry sign the form to release his
service records. And why was he given a discharge 20 years after he completed
his service????????????
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Totally untrue! The only "line" to get in the NG was for inlisted men.
Bush
was an officer. There was no "line" of officers to jump ahead in. Another
piece of false information.

Where do you get this crap?? I know... Karl Rove.

Crap? I was alive at the time.

No doubt, but all the facts available contradict your statements,
unless you got them from the RNC and/or Karl by proxy.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

This is called being able to predict the future.

No it's not. It's called a plan to enter public life and not work for a
living. By the way Kerry should give back his salary for 2004. He hasn't
participated in ONE vote for the people he represents. Others who have run for
office have resigned their seat.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

You're understanding would be wrong.

Could be? That's a profound statement. Is that all you got?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

No doubt, but all the facts available contradict your statements,

Bull****! There was no waiting line for officers to get in the NG. Period.
Christ ask anybody.
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

In article ,
SAIL LOCO wrote:
Bush failed to do his duty by failing to show up for his physical,
even though he was ordered to do so by his commanding officer. He cost
the taxpayers millions because his training was wasted.


Big ****ing deal. So the big shot didn't show up for a physical. No money was
wasted on training because the physical was to qualify Bush for an aircraft
that was not available.

A very big ****ing deal, actually.

There were plenty of aircraft. He used that as an excuse to not show
up.

Kerry, on the other hand, was a war hero. Bush, on the other hand, was
a drunk, and he was probably afraid of what the physical (including
the blood test that had just started being used) would reveal.
Apparently, not only was he a drunk, but was into cocaine. Laura was
selling pot, which is probably a good thing.



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."