We all remember the black mildew stains on the overhead panels. The C& C
Group wars....

They were black? You really do need google! Or maybe some coffee.
Let me bring you up to speed...again...

http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/int23.jpg

Bwahahahaaha! Can't argue with the pic!!! Okay...try!

RB

BTW.... I had never sailed a Nordica 30 prior to purchase of Overproof....
other than the "test sail" on the day of purchase. That was about a mile.


That's too bad. I sailed a C&C 32 twice before buying Alien. The first time was
not a test sail as I still had Ghost at the time. I've been impressed with the
C&C 25, 29, 33, 34XL, 41 and 32 so far!

RB

MORE LIES.


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
I believe he announced it as a Catalina first and then admitted it
was a C&C
and that everyone on the group were gullible idiots for believing
him and
congratulating him on the Catalina purchase.


Yup! Google it and you'll find quite a few folks writing "good one"
and also
trying to calm a rabid Scotty Potti down!

RB

Don't go paranoid on me Bob....

Please read my post carefully for comprehension this time and pay particular
attention to "had never sailed his latest vessel prior to purchase"

I believe you just confirmed my recollection of events.

This of course leads to the conclusion that any further recollections of
this subject, on my part, be held believable.....


CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| I don't need to google... Bob had never sailed his latest vessel prior to
| purchase. It had been laid up for 2+ years.
|
|
| Wrong again, Mooron. I sailed a C&C 32 months before and drove quite a
ways to
| do it. Alien had been on the hard for 9 years and could not be test
sailed.
| Since I knew the owner and the fellow who'd cared for her, I had zero
concerns.
| As is quite aparent I made quite a killing. She has had no problems of any
kind
| after two seasons. Wasn't it YOU who claimed the engine wouldn't last?
When
| might I expect a failure? I only ask because it's running like new.
| I also test sailed a C&C 33, which was also a contender.
|
| RB

"Capt. Mooron" wrote ...

I believe he announced it as a Catalina first and then admitted it
was a C&C
and that everyone on the group were gullible idiots for believing
him and
congratulating him on the Catalina purchase. I also think he went on
ad
nausea regarding found treasures aboard which he later admitted were
also
fabrications.

Oh right, the classic bobspittle ploy, make up a lie and then when
caught claim it was a troll.



We all remember the black mildew stains on the overhead panels. The
C& C
Group wars....


yeah, that was pretty funny when he got booted off the C&C list.



...really, need I go on?

nah, he'll do new stupid stuff.


Scotty

Bob... you must immediately google those mildew posts of yours as punishment
for that feeble attempt at a cover-up!

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| We all remember the black mildew stains on the overhead panels. The C& C
| Group wars....
|
| They were black? You really do need google! Or maybe some coffee.
| Let me bring you up to speed...again...
|
| http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/int23.jpg
|
| Bwahahahaaha! Can't argue with the pic!!! Okay...try!
|
| RB

Oh right, the classic bobspittle ploy, make up a lie and then when
caught


That makes sense! I was caught lying about buying the C&C 32 which is a FAR
better boat than the Catalina! Good one!

Bwahahahahahahaha! You simply got snared and you're still PO'd about it.
Priceless! A great troll lives forever!

RB

I found it quite unnecessary to sail the vessel prior to purchase. I knew it
was what I wanted.

CM


"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| BTW.... I had never sailed a Nordica 30 prior to purchase of Overproof....
| other than the "test sail" on the day of purchase. That was about a
mile.
|
|
| That's too bad. I sailed a C&C 32 twice before buying Alien. The first
time was
| not a test sail as I still had Ghost at the time. I've been impressed with
the
| C&C 25, 29, 33, 34XL, 41 and 32 so far!
|
| RB

Bob... you must immediately google those mildew posts of yours as punishment
for that feeble attempt at a cover-up!

The stains were real, but they weren't black. They were just dark areas. As it
turned out there had been velcro glued around the hatches (We think) and the
residue of the glue remained. Acetone took it off with some hard work. The
stains were also found in spots where we couldn't imagine why velcro would be
there, but the acetone took it right off. The only mold we found was in the
freezer part of the fridge and under the sink in the head. Look at the pic and
you'll also notice she has NEW cushions 5" thick that cost almost 3K and were
never used.
And by the way...how do you like my custom Dodger, which I got by selling two
boats for the yard?
http://members.aol.com/bobsprit/images/al3.jpg

RB

I found it quite unnecessary to sail the vessel prior to purchase. I knew it
was what I wanted.


If you say so. It's still generally poor practice to buy a boat without at
least sailing a sistership. You won't find many people who will disagree with
that.

RB

Is he trying to convince us, or himself that he's happy with his
current 'stepping stone'. It's not working here.

Scotty, a happy sailor....

"Bobsprit" wrote


Could your memory be that bad. Her insane list of gear was indeed
true. Some of
it I kept, some I sold, some I gave away. It was a real
windfall....new
outboard, spare folding new prop, spare new radios, spare autopilot,
and an
amazing assortment of never used blocks and lines, new clothes. How
about a 500
dollar full body sailing suit that fit Suzanne like a glove? How
about a 1000
dollar Musto suit XXL for me with the tags still on it. Yup. It was
Xmas for a
long time as we dug through her bags of gear. Now add all of that
and much more
to a good C&C 32 that surveyed excellent and "above average
condition" with a
hull value of 36K currently and I paid less than 16K. I spent under
1K
replacing her ports, and doing a lot of cleanup....it was fun and so
is the
boat,

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
| And by the way...how do you like my custom Dodger, which I got by selling
two
| boats for the yard?
| http://members.aol.com/bobsprit/images/al3.jpg

Yes Bob.... it's a very nice dodger.

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| I found it quite unnecessary to sail the vessel prior to purchase. I knew
it
| was what I wanted.
|
|
| If you say so. It's still generally poor practice to buy a boat without at
| least sailing a sistership. You won't find many people who will disagree
with
| that.


Poor Practice for who?... others?... maybe. That depends entirely on the
circumstances of the vessel and conditions of purchase. In my case it was a
logical decision.

CM

He said he brought a Catalina at the Atlantic City Boat Show.

A bold face lie of great proportions and I don't remember any comments
of approval other than from Nutsy himself, after he admitted his lie.

In my case it was a
logical decision.


More logical than having a sea trial if possible? Wrong.

RB

A bold face lie of great proportions and I don't remember any comments
of approval other than from Nutsy himself, after he admitted his lie.


Katy was among the people who nodded approval. Scotty went super nova.

RB

He said he brought a Catalina at the Atlantic City Boat Show.


No I didn't.

RB

Capt. Mooron wrote

You've never been on a Cabo Rico 38.... then of course that's evident.

Express 30?? Good Grief!

You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

DSK

Express 30?? Good Grief!

You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?


No, I think he's saying it's about 350 times better in nearly every respect. It
might still beat the Express over a long passage. The CR 38 is not a slow
cruising boat.

RB

I won't be surprised when he proudly boasts that this devil baby of
his is just another sick troll.

SV

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
He said he brought a Catalina at the Atlantic City Boat Show.

A bold face lie of great proportions and I don't remember any
comments
of approval other than from Nutsy himself, after he admitted his
lie.

I was hoping you were on you last leg

My last boat???? I just sold my last boat! I now have my new boat!

I hope one day to be able to get a Mac 26'X...... Just kidding.... There was
a time when I wanted one, but I prefer something that is blue water capable.
Island Packet sounds good. If I were to decide to go small, the Flicka is
sweet for a 20' boat. But, I am thinking 30' -36' more or less. It needs to
be a boat that can be single-handed, roomy, stable, point exceptional well
and be reasonably fast. I have not found that boat yet. We are planning on
keeping our current boat for quite a while (10 years maybe) until the next
phase in out life, which will be preparing for retirement. I still like the
1983-85 hunter 345 and so does my wife. I hear bad input about them from
here though. They are set-up comfortable, fast, point well and can be single
handed. But for right now, I am busy sailing and kissing our new boat "26
Again!"

Sea Yawl,
John

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
I won't be surprised when he proudly boasts that this devil baby of
his is just another sick troll.

The Troll probably ate a bad child and that is why he is sick......

Nutsy,

I don't think you even know what a test sail is

You can't sail another boat as a test sail then buy a "Derelict" and say
you test sailed it. If that isn't a lie then you are kidding only
yourself.

Ole Thom

You can't sail another boat as a test sail then buy a "Derelict" and say
you test sailed it. If that isn't a lie then you are kidding only
yourself.


Thom, nice troll. But sadly (for you in this case) I did everything exactly
right.
16K...and here's the result...

http://hometown.aol.com/bobsprit/images/a6.jpg

Just lucky, I guess!!!!

RB

Thanks for the links Thom, she looks great!
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,

Try calling up ;

Ole Thom's Boat

I made up some pictures while I had her out of the water last summer for
"Nutsy"

I'll try to get some of the Pilothouse and inside helm

Ole Thom

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
| Capt. Mooron wrote
|
| You've never been on a Cabo Rico 38.... then of course that's evident.
|
| Express 30?? Good Grief!
|
| You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

Doug, I know you to be a man of numbers and stats... so I will provide the
table below from SailCalc... along with the fact that the Cabo Rico 38 is
the fastest cruiser I have sailed on. We averaged 11 knots over Yellow Banks
in the Bahamas on one.

As Follows

Performance Comparison LOA Cabo Rico 38 38

Express 30 30

LWL Cabo Rico 38 29.9

Express 30 24.5

Beam Cabo Rico 38 11.6

Express 30 10

Displacement Cabo Rico 38 21500

Express 30 8200

Sail Area Cabo Rico 38 969

Express 30 472

Capsize Ratio Cabo Rico 38 1.67

Express 30 1.98

Hull Speed Cabo Rico 38 7.33

Express 30 6.63

Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

Express 30 18.57

Displacement to LWL Cabo Rico 38 359

Express 30 249

LWL to Beam Cabo Rico 38 2.58

Express 30 2.45

Motion Comfort Cabo Rico 38 38.96

Express 30 22.39

Pounds/Inch Cabo Rico 38 1239

Express 30 875



Yes... faster than the Express 30.

CM

"Bobsprit" wrote in message
...
| In my case it was a
| logical decision.
|
|
| More logical than having a sea trial if possible? Wrong.

A Sea Trial is not a Test Sail Bob.
In a Sea Trail you have committed to purchase and are testing the vessels
components to assure they match the claims. A Sea Trail and Survey is
contingent upon final sale. I did not require a test sail because I had a
reasonable idea of the abilities and performance of the vessel. I did not
have to sail a sistership to understand that aspect.

I can understand that as a relative newcomer to boats in general ..... you
would be wise to pursue the avenue laid out for the inexperienced. I commend
you on your diligence.

CM


CM

Yes... faster than the Express 30.


Mooron, the CR 38 will generally only be faster over blue water passages.
Around the bouys the Express 30 would be faster and certainly point higher.
Doesn't matter worth a damn in any case. The CR 38 is a real yacht and the
Express is a toy by any comparison.
The CR is pretty close to a world class yacht.

RB

| You're saying a Cabo Rico 38 is faster than an Express 30?

Capt. Mooron wrote:
Doug, I know you to be a man of numbers and stats... so I will provide the
table below from SailCalc... along with the fact that the Cabo Rico 38 is
the fastest cruiser I have sailed on. We averaged 11 knots over Yellow Banks
in the Bahamas on one.

Well, that's not slow... OTOH what were the conditions, and what will
the boat do under "normal" (meaning normal for the area and season)
sailing conditions?


Performance Comparison
Hull Speed Cabo Rico 38 7.33

Express 30 6.63

Well, that's to be expected when the CR 38 is more than 1/4 again as
long... assuming that the boat will reach close to hull speed under
normal sailing conditions.


Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05

Express 30 18.57

Now that's an interesting figure... the CR 38 has pretty decent sail area


Displacement to LWL Cabo Rico 38 359

Express 30 249

It's also got a much heavier "footprint." I'd be surprised if the CR 38
got all that close to hull speed except under favorable conditions,
whereas the Express 30 performs quite well under a wide variety of
conditions.

I think that off the wind, especially in choppy seas, the CR 38 would be
faster... on a long passage it should be faster...




Yes... faster than the Express 30.

As I said under some conditions, it would be reasonable to expect that.

But for all-round sailing? Let me put it this way... PHRF rating
committees think that the CR 38 is noticably slower than the Express
30... enough so that they would rarely be in the same class.

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

| More logical than having a sea trial if possible? Wrong.

A Sea Trial is not a Test Sail Bob.


Blah blah blah, snore. You didn't do a sea test or a sea trial nor did Scotty.
Now you'll both claim otherwise.
Whatever!

RB

I did not require a test sail because I had a
reasonable idea of the abilities and performance of the vessel.


Let's see what Joe has to say about the above comment. I'm betting he'll stay
100% silent.

RB

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King


Doug really cracks me up. I already acurately summed up the CR 38's abilities
and he just acts as though he knew it all along...after I already posted it.
What an idiot!

RB

"DSK" wrote in message
...
But for all-round sailing? Let me put it this way... PHRF rating
committees think that the CR 38 is noticably slower than the Express
30... enough so that they would rarely be in the same class.

BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
John Cairns

"DSK" wrote in message
| Well, that's not slow... OTOH what were the conditions, and what will
| the boat do under "normal" (meaning normal for the area and season)
| sailing conditions?

I'll have to check my logs.... but I remember mid twenties on windspeed and
a nice reach withboth headsails. We sailed by a Westsail 32 which was
crawling along as usual... but even they were surprised at our speed.
Minimal chop and shallow water with course changes to avoid the coral heads.


|
|
| Performance Comparison
| Hull Speed Cabo Rico 38 7.33
|
| Express 30 6.63
|
| Well, that's to be expected when the CR 38 is more than 1/4 again as
| long... assuming that the boat will reach close to hull speed under
| normal sailing conditions.

I've found that it could.

|
|
| Sail Area to Displacement Cabo Rico 38 20.05
|
| Express 30 18.57
|
| Now that's an interesting figure... the CR 38 has pretty decent sail area

I found the rig powerful and the vessel moved quickly.

|
|
| Displacement to LWL Cabo Rico 38 359
|
| Express 30 249
|
| It's also got a much heavier "footprint." I'd be surprised if the CR 38
| got all that close to hull speed except under favorable conditions,
| whereas the Express 30 performs quite well under a wide variety of
| conditions.

I found it did rather well in most conditions including light airs of which
there were plenty during our charter time frame in April.


|
| I think that off the wind, especially in choppy seas, the CR 38 would be
| faster... on a long passage it should be faster...
|
|
|
|
| Yes... faster than the Express 30.
|
| As I said under some conditions, it would be reasonable to expect that.
|
| But for all-round sailing? Let me put it this way... PHRF rating
| committees think that the CR 38 is noticably slower than the Express
| 30... enough so that they would rarely be in the same class.

The definition of "all around sailing" is too wide a mark. I would not
entertain the Express as an all around sailing boat unless all around
denoted buoy racing and an occasional week-end in calm weather. Then again a
canoe with a sail and outrigger would be suitable for that purpose.
|
| BTW the Cabo Rico 38 is a Mark Ellis design, right? He's noted for being
| able to design comfy boats that sail well... but he's not a magician!

I'm not certain of the designer.... I just know what impression the vessel
left me with... and had the opportunity to sail against several other larger
as well as smaller boats during our charter. It is indeed a very fast boat.

CM

Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots is
a bit of a stretch, don't you think?


John, you know better than this.

RB

"John Cairns" wrote in message

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns

Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such speeds?

CM

and that could call for a larger boat.

Might not. If you had the proper boat to start with.


You mean I should have started with a Ted Hood 51?
Oh...

RB

"John Cairns" wrote

| And, since there are any number of blue water cruisers of similar length
| that are considerably faster than a CR 38, I would be more likely to
| characterize the CR 38 as "slow". Claiming that a CR 38 will do 11 knots
is
| a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
| John Cairns


Capt. Mooron wrote:
Well now John... since you've failed to provide a list of 38 foot vessels
that are faster... and I'm certain there are quite a few.... your point
seems contentious rather than clarifying.

Yeah, John, what are you tryin' to do... start an arument?!?


I'm not certain what to make of the last part.... are you in effect
accusing me of fabrication or that the vessel is incapable of such speeds?

Well, you did say you're not much of a "numbers" kind of guy.

I think that you're falling too much into the Boobsprit way of
thinking... that an Express 30 must be POS because... umm, because...
oh, I know: because you hear so much bad talk about it on the internet!
Actually it's very nice boat, hardly a lightweight around-the-bouys
racer, with probably more cabin space than your boat.

Personally, it seems unlikely to me that the CR 38 would beat an Express
30 under any circumstances unless you really stacked the deck to favor
it. OTOH it's a lot roomier and probably noticably more comfortable in a
chop.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King