This poor, pitiful attempt to smear Kerry is really unravel ling. The
*one* guy that the Smear Boat group had who actually served aboard
Kerry's boat, is Steve Gardner, who served as a gunner on Kerry's
boat. This is the guy who has been trotted out as *the guy* with all
this first hand experience. The only problem? It turns out that he
was NEVER present during even ONE of the incidents in question.
Of course he has been quoted by many of the other "hearsay...wasn't
there" witnesses, but old Steve wasn't there. Lots of lies and
contradictions to explain, there Steve. Why don't you start in the
present and work your way back.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200408240001


"Gardner claimed to know that Kerry fled the scene on the river that
day while the other three boats stayed and that Kerry then "turned
around and came all the way back to pick up Mr. Rassmann that he had
thrown off his boat when he took off, when he fled down the canal."
But later in the show, Gardner admitted to not being present that day.
When Scarborough attempted to revisit the "March 13, 1969 incident,"
Gardner said, "I'm not going to deal with that. Because I wasn't
there."


Oh well, stories change with the passing of time. Take Adm Roy
Hoffmann, who on May 6, 2004 said:

Hoffman acknowledged he had no first-hand knowledge to discredit
Kerry's claims to valor and said that although Kerry was under his
command, he really didn't know Kerry much personally." [Milwaukee
Journal Sentinel]

Time passes...all the way to August 5, 2004 and the new story is...

August 5: Hoffman said, "I knew him well, because I operated very
closely with him and, uh, many of the operations, uh, most of the
operations were-were conducted with multiple boats" - a dramatic shift
from admitting no personal knowledge of Kerry three months earlier; it
went unchallenged by his host.

Perhaps he was influenced by some of the affidavits of others, who
weren't there either and also had no personal knowledge, like Steve
Gardner. "New evidence" as Dave likes to call it.

These guys are really floundering in their own lies and fabrications.
Someone toss them a PFD...no, make it an anchor.

Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.
--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

I would really like to hear a rational explanation from one of our
esteemed members of the right-wing wacko groups if they can still
claim that Bush didn't lie.

This morning, Mr. Ginsberg resigned after voluntarily disclosing his
role as an advisor to both the Bush campaign and the "Swift Boat
Veterans for Truth." Is this dual role a violation of federal election
laws? Technically it isn't, but the appearance of a "connection" could
still have political consequences. Ginsberg's admission of ties with
the so-called "527 group" comes after the President has categorically
denied that a connection exists between his campaign and the
television ads in question.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

You're digging yourself in deeper, Jon. As I said before, answer the
questions in that little quiz and then come back and tell us about those
"ties."


Dave, I don't vote according to party. Never. But I know Bush is not interested
in anything but himself. Many republicans agree. MANY. I have never seen a
worse president of the USA than Bush. No one even comes close, because most had
at least SOME good qualities. Our country has soured in 4 years. The country is
horribly polarized. That in itself should teach you something. Better leaders
(Reagan, Clinton) commanded respect. We really need a new guy. Kerry won't be
worse, might be better and perhaps we'll have a much better president down the
road. 1st things 1st. Bush must go.

RB

Better leaders
( Clinton) commanded respect.


That's a joke ............... right?
S/V Express 30 "Ringmaster"
"Trains are a winter sport"

Better leaders
( Clinton) commanded respect.


That's a joke ............... right


Reagan and Clinton were two term presidents who had plenty of outside-party
support. It's just not the case with Bush. The country is horribly divided.
Wake up!!!

RB

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 09:23:45 -0400, "Vito" wrote:

"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.


While Ginsberg's role(s) was not illegal, it seems that the outright
lies and hypocriscy are probably the reasons for the resignation.

In the August 7 Philadelphia Inquirer, Ginsberg said

....Ben Ginsberg, a legal adviser to the Bush campaign, specifically
condemned the dual roles played by Democrats Harold Ickes and Bill
Richardson, who had official roles at the convention and also within
prominent friendly 527s.

"They're over the coordination line," Ginsberg said of Ickes and
Richardson. "The whole notion of cutting off links between public
officeholders and soft-money groups just got exploded."

So why would he be condemning them for something that he, himself, was
also doing? Of course the real issue is that old embarrassing "we
don't have anything to do with the Swift Boats group" story by the
Bush Campaign and these guys keep falling out of the tree.

I am sure all the other connections to the Bush campaign are pure
coincidence. It is just good fortune for Bush that some fringe group
comes out of nowhere to attack his opponents. That reminds me, I
wonder how John McCain's illegitimate daughter from a black prostitute
is doing these days?

I figured that you'd forget that Bush said categorically that there
was no connection between his campaign and those losers. He LIED.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 25 Aug 2004 11:51:44 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest.

I figured you'd be taken in by that Kerry ploy. Take answer that little quiz
I posted earlier in another thread, and then come back and tell us about
that "conflict of interest."

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

In article ,
Vito wrote:
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
Not only that, but one of Bush's political advisor attorneys
just resigned from the campaign because there was a conflict
of interest. He was also involved with the bogus Swiftboat vets.

Lest we forget, this is typical of the tactics Hitler used to get elected.

Sorry, but I thought it was Karl Rove, not Gobbles.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."