"Capt. Mooron" wrote

My experience is that
| women don't want to be jumped on the first or even fourth date.

Well... I must be in Hell... because most girls I go out with want
it in
the first hour of the date.


Different bait.

No, Bart It's not emotional. I listen to all this when my employees,
mostly young women, come and relate their tales of woe to me. And you
cannot determine a possibility of a long term relationship on a first date.
There are too many variables. My opinions come from vast experience with
young women (and older women) who relate their situations to me in he course
of my job. I make my assertions from the vast compendium of information you
have provided about yourself and your relationships from women. I have
read, I have analyzed, and I have drawn my conclusions. And that is a
logical thought process. You know a lot about boats. You know nothing
about women.
"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
There you go jumping to conclusions. Katy, you are the perfect
example of a woman that does not use logical thinking. You
react emotionally to everything. Take yourself out of the picture
when you consider my comments. They are not directed at you.

Who said anything about a first date? My policy is high standards
and low expectations. I don't expect anything. And why do you
assume I chose women of little virtue? I assume what you call
virtue is what I call quality.

What is virtue anyway? Is a woman virtuous when she doesn't have
sex on the first date with a man she thinks could be a long term
possibility, while the same woman jumps into bed with another man
for a one night stand? If that is the case, then few women are virtuous
and if they are, it is only because their fathers kept them locked up.
Also, is a woman virtuous when she doesn't sleep with a man on the
first date, but has thousands of second dates? I think not!

Women need partners. I'm not like that. I'd rather be alone if I can't
find someone special. Also, I respect women who have sex with me on
the first date--because I'm overly selective. To get that far with me,
means
the woman is very high quality--smart, professional, good looking, and
well
balanced. At my age, chances are she wants to have sex on the first date,
and I'm the one holding back because I ate or drank too much at dinner.

I feel it is important to set the tone of the relationship as physical not
platonic, immediately. My experience is that if things don't get hot by
the second date, it never does.

I typically only date women college graduates with professional jobs. I
don't mind if a woman has children provided the children don't make
dating impossible, and the woman is a good mother. I don't date flaky
women, and I won't pick a woman is too needy, who wants me to adopt
her children, or has huge financial or emotional problems. This
eliminates
the bulk of the women out there.

Back to your comments. I've not at all surprised women vacillate and play
games, since women are not decisive decision makers. It's important for
men to set limits and boundaries for women, because women always test
boundaries with men. Women want to see what they can get away with.
It is part of their decision making process. If they don't get enough of
what
they want, they pick another man who allows them more freedom or control.

When I was young I pursued women, as many as possible, in the hopes of
finding just one. I'd spend a fortune dating with a poor return on
investment.
When women are young, after spending all their money on cloths, they seem
to
feel it is their right to use men financially. The traditional date is to
take a woman
out to dinner. Many single women use men as open wallets for free dinners
--dating for food not companionship. Many years ago, I grew tired of
this
and
decided I'd rather take my friends out for dinner instead.

At age 48, it's role reversal. Women my age that are unattached, are
still
near
their sexual peak and desperate to find a man. To meet men, women join
clubs,
travel, take men out to dinner, and use all the methods I used when I was
young
to meet women.

Games are an interesting topic. Here is my definition and how I view
them.

Games are manipulations that work towards a hidden agenda.

This is common in women. Because men are physically stronger, more
confident and thus more direct, they are less likely to play games. Women
are weaker physically, and compensate for this by using their "feminine
wiles"
which is basically a combination of deception and sex.

Women accuse men of playing games, when the men don't follow the
woman's unstated master plan. The big problem with a woman stating her
plan is that it's a trump card and once played either wins or ends the
relationship. It is far better for the women to lead the man down the
garden path--indirectly. So women avoid being direct and play games
instead. They test and probe for limits and quickly back off when they
have gone too far. And they complain when the men don't do what
they want them to do.

In my case, when a woman pushes past certain boundaries, I drop her.
Perhaps that is overly harsh of me, given that I know women often test
boundaries. I feel it is important to let them know the consequences of
pushing too far.

When a woman tells me she doesn't like game players, I immediately
know two things. First, that she herself is a game player, and second,
the men she dates do not follow her master plan. So I start to wonder
what it is about her that is causing her plan to fail. There is either a
psychological, financial, physical, or a combination of these reasons why
she is not achieving her goals.

I would not call my "10 pm strategy" a game. There is nothing hidden about
it. I don't use it much any more, since the women I date these days are
older, know what they want, and pursue me aggressively. None of them
are virgins, so none of them are "virtuous". They ask me out, travel
great
distances to date me, often buy me dinner, want to spend more time with
me than I have to spare, and try real hard to make me happy.

I wish I had more time to date--I like the attention. My focus is working
on the boat, and I'd rather put my spare money into HOOT and ECHO than
buy expensive dinners.

"katysails" wrote
Bart,
Gamesmanship is all that is...something that many guys accuse women of
playing....Any woman that would putr out upon the first date without
some
sort of other relationship there in the first place is, in my mind's
eye,
a
person of little virtue. You obviously like women of little virtue, so
why
are you surprised when they vacillate and play games? Of what you're
looking for is a one or two or whatever night's stand, then your game is
valid...if you're looking for something longer term, you ain't gonna
find
it...

Bart,
Do women a favor and stay away from them. They don't need you.
"Jonathan Ganz" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Bart Senior wrote:
There you go jumping to conclusions. Katy, you are the perfect
example of a woman that does not use logical thinking. You
react emotionally to everything. Take yourself out of the picture
when you consider my comments. They are not directed at you.

Are you trying to sound like Reagan?

Women need partners. I'm not like that. I'd rather be alone if I can't
find someone special. Also, I respect women who have sex with me on
the first date--because I'm overly selective. To get that far with me,
means the woman is very high quality--smart, professional, good
looking, and well balanced. At my age, chances are she wants to have
sex on the first date, and I'm the one holding back because I ate or
drank too much at dinner.

All people need partners, not just women. Just because you're alone
doesn't mean you don't want a partner. In fact, you go on and on about
it later in your post.

I feel it is important to set the tone of the relationship as physical
not
platonic, immediately. My experience is that if things don't get hot by
the second date, it never does.

Total bs. You must have limited experience. My experience is that
women don't want to be jumped on the first or even fourth date. They
want to believe you're interested in more than getting laid.

I typically only date women college graduates with professional jobs. I
don't mind if a woman has children provided the children don't make
dating impossible, and the woman is a good mother. I don't date flaky
women, and I won't pick a woman is too needy, who wants me to adopt
her children, or has huge financial or emotional problems. This
eliminates
the bulk of the women out there.

Nothing new or interesting here. I think most women don't want a man
to be too needy or have a lot of baggage.

Back to your comments. I've not at all surprised women vacillate and
play
games, since women are not decisive decision makers. It's important for
men to set limits and boundaries for women, because women always test
boundaries with men. Women want to see what they can get away with.
It is part of their decision making process. If they don't get enough of
what they want, they pick another man who allows them more freedom or
control.

Total bs. How about Margaret Thatcher, Hillary Clinton, the list goes
on an on. Sounds like you're never going to find anyone with this
attitude, other than some bimbo who doesn't have a brain.

When I was young I pursued women, as many as possible, in the hopes of
finding just one. I'd spend a fortune dating with a poor return on
investment.

More likely, you pursued women to get laid and when it didn't work
out, you blamed them. Your expectations were too high. How about just
meeting a women, having a good time with minimal pressure to do
anything or have anything "happen."

When women are young, after spending all their money on cloths, they seem
to
feel it is their right to use men financially. The traditional date is
to
take a woman out to dinner. Many single women use men as open
wallets for free dinners --dating for food not companionship. Many
years ago, I grew tired of this and decided I'd rather take my
friends out for dinner instead.

Also bs. I've known women young and old who would spend all their
money or not spend much at all on clothes or want to or not want to
use men financially.

The traditional date is to treat a woman or anyone with respect,
listen to what they have to say, engage them in interesting
conversation, or just have fun.

At age 48, it's role reversal. Women my age that are unattached, are
still
near their sexual peak and desperate to find a man. To meet men, women
join
clubs, travel, take men out to dinner, and use all the methods I used
when I was
young to meet women.

Suddenly, upon reaching middle age, the hedonistic, female narrcisits
suddenly reform? Or, are they now the sexual predators? I think you're
confused.

Games are an interesting topic. Here is my definition and how I view
them.

Games are manipulations that work towards a hidden agenda.

This is common in women. Because men are physically stronger, more
confident and thus more direct, they are less likely to play games.
Women
are weaker physically, and compensate for this by using their "feminine
wiles" which is basically a combination of deception and sex.

Total bs again. Men play just as many games. They're just not as good
at it.

Women accuse men of playing games, when the men don't follow the
woman's unstated master plan. The big problem with a woman stating her
plan is that it's a trump card and once played either wins or ends the
relationship. It is far better for the women to lead the man down the
garden path--indirectly. So women avoid being direct and play games
instead. They test and probe for limits and quickly back off when they
have gone too far. And they complain when the men don't do what
they want them to do.

Sounds to me like you're pretty bitter. You need to get past it.

In my case, when a woman pushes past certain boundaries, I drop her.
Perhaps that is overly harsh of me, given that I know women often test
boundaries. I feel it is important to let them know the consequences of
pushing too far.

This is called unwilling to play, so you take your marbles and go
home. Why does it have to be a negative game? Why can't it be a fun
game. There's no telling where it'll lead.

When a woman tells me she doesn't like game players, I immediately
know two things. First, that she herself is a game player, and second,
the men she dates do not follow her master plan. So I start to wonder
what it is about her that is causing her plan to fail. There is either a
psychological, financial, physical, or a combination of these reasons why
she is not achieving her goals.

I think you're deluding yourself. In your opinion, it's not possible
for her to actually be telling the truth. Maybe, more likely, she senses
that you're into your own game playing and is getting nervous about
it.

I would not call my "10 pm strategy" a game. There is nothing hidden
about
it. I don't use it much any more, since the women I date these days are
older, know what they want, and pursue me aggressively. None of them
are virgins, so none of them are "virtuous". They ask me out, travel
great
distances to date me, often buy me dinner, want to spend more time with
me than I have to spare, and try real hard to make me happy.

Virtue has nothing whatever to do with being a virgin. By definition:

Moral excellence and righteousness; goodness.


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

The other one...
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Oh, sorry. Which one was it then?

Scotty

"katysails" wrote in message
...
I wasn't at that particular experience....
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Lady Pilot" wrote

Hardly...

Scotty, if you want some more points, write a detailed
report--unless the experience was not worth recording.

Hey, watch yourself! That wasn't nice.

Don't worry, I never tell.

'K ;-)

Hey, if you don't believe me, just ask Katy, she'll verify it.

SV

"katysails" wrote ...
My opinions come from vast experience with
young women (and older women)

Kewl!

That one was even better.

Scotty

"katysails" wrote in message
...
The other one...
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...
Oh, sorry. Which one was it then?

Scotty

"katysails" wrote in message
...
I wasn't at that particular experience....
"Scott Vernon" wrote in message
...

"Lady Pilot" wrote

Hardly...

Scotty, if you want some more points, write a detailed
report--unless the experience was not worth recording.

Hey, watch yourself! That wasn't nice.

Don't worry, I never tell.

'K ;-)

Hey, if you don't believe me, just ask Katy, she'll verify it.

SV

Capt. Mooron wrote:



My experience is that
| women don't want to be jumped on the first or even fourth date.

Well... I must be in Hell... because most girls I go out with want it in
the first hour of the date.


Are the Moose on heat again?

Cheers

But to enjoy them for more than a few minutes you need to understand them.

Cheers

Capt. Mooron wrote:

WOW... bet you got them lined up and waiting with that ploy.

Seriously..... you are wasting your time trying to understand a woman. They
were designed to be enjoyed!

CM


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
t...
| I think you should keep your points katy. Otherwise you'd be
| pointless.
|
| LP is 1800 miles away from me. I don't think points will help.
|
| ******************
|
| This is my "modern man's guide to dating". What do you think of
| this katy?
|
| Since women can't make up their minds, and say no when they mean
| yes, and yes when they mean no, a man has to be able to figure out
| what a woman wants by her actions.
|
| I don't like to stay up late persuading a woman to get friendly with me.
| I use the "default method" of forcing women to make a decision.
|
| I warn the ladies very early in our date, that I turn into a werewolf at
| 10 pm, and I'm not responsible for my actions after 10 pm. Next I
| ask them what time they want the date to end. I treat it like a
countdown,
| and give them hourly reminders. I make a joke of strongly recommending
| they end the date early. The more I urge them to call it quits early, the
| more they look forward to 10 pm.
|
| Most women like it, because they don't have to say anything, they
| just giggle and squirm in their seats, and their whole attitude changes.
| It gives them something to think about. And we both look forward to
| 10 pm.
|
| Sometimes the woman will politely decline, or make up some bogus
| reason why she has to be in early. It's better for me because I won't
| waste as much time or money and I'll get fresher start on the next day.
|
| Bart
|
| "katysails" wrote
|
| Of that was only because I thought Bart had some nefarious scheme going
| on...I was going to donate my points only because I thought his
intentions
| were dishonorable...I have since realized that Bart is an honorable
| person... I renege.....
|
| "Lady Pilot" wrote
|
| "katysails" wrote:
|
| No way, chickie
|
| chickie? I don't live in Novia Scotia! ;-)
|
| ...I EARNED those points...Bart just didn't give them to me
| haphazardly....I treasure each and every one of them.
|
| Yeah, but I thought I read somewhere that you were thinking of
donating
| your
| points to me. Let me google my memory...
|
| Yes, here it is:
|
|
|
http://www.google.com/groups?hl=en&l...0uni-berlin.de
|
| You said and I quote: "I think I be donating my points to LP...."
|
| I guess you changed your mind. That's okay though, your a woman. g
|
| LP
|
| Just because Scotty
| wants to share his point with you has nothing to do with mine....
| "Lady Pilot" wrote in message
| news:ywVWc.1862$gl.752@okepread07...
| Only one point? What a cheapskate you are! ;-)
|
| I think I should have more points than that! After all, I been
| sleeping
| with them under my pillow!
|
| Thanks to Scotty for giving me his points. And thanks to
Katysails,
| if
| she
| ever decided to give me her points...
|
| LP
|
|
| "Bart Senior" wrote in message
| . net...
| One lash for Mooron for asking me to award points.
|
| One point for LP for answering correctly, albeit, a
| hen frigate is also a ship where the wife of the Captain
| makes the passage with him. In general, having a woman
| on board made the men behave better not worse.
|
| "Capt. Mooron" wrote
|
| Bingo Darlin'.... you got it right! ;-)
| I knew you were sailing stock!
|
| "Lady Pilot" wrote
| |
| | "Capt. Mooron" wrote:
| | What is a "Hen Frigate" ???
| |
| | Hen Frigate - a vessel on which a woman is permitted to
| interfere
| with
| the
| | orderly conduct and passage of the ship.
| |
| | LP
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|

"Nav" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
|
|
|
| My experience is that
| | women don't want to be jumped on the first or even fourth date.
|
| Well... I must be in Hell... because most girls I go out with want it
in
| the first hour of the date.
|
|
| Are the Moose on heat again?

You poor, desperate sod... look I'll exlain it in a 'formula' so you can
understand...
Where as :
Angle of the Dangle = E
Heat of the Meat = P
Measure of the Pleasure = C

E x P = C

Okay Now... run along and get your viagra and a hooker... make us a "Free
Body Diagram" of the results... Okay? :-P

CM

Capt. Mooron wrote:

"Nav" wrote in message
...
|
|
| Capt. Mooron wrote:
|
|
|
| My experience is that
| | women don't want to be jumped on the first or even fourth date.
|
| Well... I must be in Hell... because most girls I go out with want it
in
| the first hour of the date.
|
|
| Are the Moose on heat again?

You poor, desperate sod... look I'll exlain it in a 'formula' so you can
understand...
Where as :
Angle of the Dangle = E
Heat of the Meat = P
Measure of the Pleasure = C

E x P = C

Okay Now... run along and get your viagra and a hooker... make us a "Free
Body Diagram" of the results... Okay? :-P


Please explain how can I make a "free body diagram" with a hooker? Are
you suggesting I rip her off? Shame on you. Now tell us just how hot are
those Moose -we'll guess your angle!

:-P

Cheers