Wet Firecracker
 

Hurricane Charlie was a wet firecracker here in Connecticut
today. This year everything has gone either north or south of
us.

Yesterday evening, predicted winds from Charlie were 39
mph winds and very heavy rain. One broadcast stated two
to four inches--which sounded ridiculous to me. To prepare
for it, I checked all ECHO's mooring lines, pumped the bilge,
went over to the HOOT and put bigger blocks on the trailer
wheels.

When I got home, I checked the forecast one more time,
no change, before calling my friends to cancel Sunday's sail.

Last night we had light rain and no downpours! I woke up
to find overcast sky's and a totally different forecast for light
winds 5-9 knots, and no rain! I checked four different weather
sources because I could not believe the forecasters could have
been so far off. They were.

Today, I called everyone and the sail was back on. Four cool
people showed up, helped me install my new backstay adjuster
and backstay. Last we I pulled my backstay and dropped if off
with a rigger to install two insulators in it. I was eager to get it
installed on the boat so I could sail this weekend.

I picked a long length to make the insulated portion of the backstay
plus the lead in wire around 66 feet. 68 feet is a 1/4 wave antenna
on the HAM 80 meter band and 1/2 wave antenna on the 40 meter
HAM band. I'm looking forward to trying it out with my ICOM radio
and antenna tuner. This set up should give me great regional coverage
for the east coast on 40 meters during the day and 80 meters at night.
I had a good contact with base stations as far away as Southern
California from Block Island, Rhode Island, with similar length antenna
a few years ago.

I was tempted to put a third insulator in the middle of the backstay
to build a loading coil around it, to center load the antenna, which
gives better radiation pattern. I may do that still. First I want to test
out my new antenna, which will take a bit more work to mount the
AT-4 tuner and make up a cable to connect it to my IC-706 radio.

I could not find anyone who would rebuild my Navtec backstay
adjustor, and guarantee the work, so I bought a new one. I'd
rather have a new one than spend the same amount of money
rebuilding an old one several times.

It was much easier installing the backstay with four people
helping versus only one taking it off. Winching my friend Mike
up 60 feet last Tuesday, by myself, was backbreaking. Today,
with no wind and lots of people it was fast and easy. Monica tailed
the big winch, and her husband George and I took turns on the
organ grinder, while Dawson kept the slack out of the safety line.
It may be overkill, but after feeling vulnerable at the top of a mast
many times with only one halyard, I've started using two halyards
a few years ago. Mike went up the mast again, and his climbing
efforts were improved over last time--a huge help! The whole job
took 30 minutes.

It turned out to be a pleasant sail. The overcast sky's kept us
from getting burned. We had only two problems, a wrap on the
forestay when jibing the drifter around the Middleground Lighthouse,
which was a pain to clear, and the engine quit when I was getting
ready to dock. Having extra crew made all the difference in each
case.

When the engine quit, I immediately anchored in the harbor, and
called the ferry on the radio, to let them know what was going on.
It was probably a nice change for them to have something different
happen. Fortunately there was room for the ferry's to get around
us, while George and Mike pumped up the inflatable. The inflatable
and outboard worked well to shove the boat back to the dock. If
I had more experienced crew I might have tried to sail it in, but I
wanted to back it in--so power was the best, albeit less elegant,
option.

For some reason the engine would start, but die when given some
throttle, or simply quit after a few minutes of operation. It started
fine every time. I checked the cut off valve and it was good. After
thinking about it tonight, I decided it must be the in-line electric fuel
pump I added to help bleed the system. I think if I pulled it out, the
problem will go away. We'll see.

All it all it was a nice surprise to sail on a day that was supposed
to be heavy downpours and high winds. And the bigger than usual
crew was a huge help. I didn't have to haul up my anchor or clean
that sinking mud off it, or even ask anyone to do it! Monica brought
sandwiches and drinks for all. It was a very nice day and came
together well at the last minute, even though it was planned and
canceled.

I'm not much of a planner and usually sail with small crews. I just like
to jump in the boat and go when the weather is perfect. But, at the
last minute finding crew can be a chore. Next time, I'll plan even farther
in advance, and invite even more crew. Taking a chance on the weather
and planning in advance have advantages. I still don't know what to
do about those week days when the weather is perfect and I can't
find crew.

~Bart

Links for information on the radio, tuner and hardware used are listed
below.

Review of IC-706 ( I highly recommend this radio. I have two)
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/63

Review of AT-4 antenna Tuner (I highly recommend it)
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1071

Ronstan Insulator (Did I goof and buy something French?)
http://www.ronstan.com/catalogue/R102.pdf

Nactec integral backstay adjustor (Connecticut Company!)
http://www.navtec.net/products/index...ter&part_id=72

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 02:46:26 GMT, something compelled "Bart
Senior" , to say:

For some reason the engine would start, but die when given some
throttle, or simply quit after a few minutes of operation. It started
fine every time. I checked the cut off valve and it was good. After
thinking about it tonight, I decided it must be the in-line electric fuel
pump I added to help bleed the system. I think if I pulled it out, the
problem will go away. We'll see.

You can keep it, but cut it out of the system for normal
operation. This will look better in a fixed pitch font.

_____________________
| |
| |
A X C D B X
________|____X__P___X________|_______


In the above, lines are fuel lines. X is a valve, and P is your
electric pump.

During normal operation, valves A and B are open, and valves C
and D are closed. When you want to use the electric pump for
bleeding, reverse the valves.

Bart Senior wrote:
Hurricane Charlie was a wet firecracker here in Connecticut
today. This year everything has gone either north or south of
us.

You sound disappointed. We didn't have any real excitement, other than a
long neglected boat nearly sinking in it's slip. But we went through a
fair amount of work preparing and cleaning up after.

The eye wall of (downgraded) Hurricane Charley was disintegrating as it
passed about 30 miles west of us. Peak gusts around 58 knots and enough
rain that it was hard to breath facing away from the wind. We had out
doubled dock lines and took down all canvas.

The marina was well prepared, except for a few stupid people who did not
take down their roller furled genoas... I climbed aboard two and added a
set of securing hitches, one with the owner standing there telling me
the whole time that he didn't need it, didn't want it, and I better come
back right after the storm and get it off of there. This is what a I
call a damn Yankee. Other people secured biminis & roller furlers for
people who either couldn't or wouldn't take them off themselves.

Why are people so friggin' dumb?

One of these bozos said to me, "The predicted wind is only 60 knots or
less, that's not going to be a problem." I told him that 1- less than 60
knots could shred his bimini, yank his genoa off it's furler and dismast
him, as well as causing major damage to boats around him (this last
being my own concern) and 2- there was a good possibility of tornados.
This guy also has dock lines that look like old ratty clothesline.. the
marina dockmaster had to loan him some real lines.

Is there a tactful way to tell these people that laziness is *not* a
good principle of seamanship?!?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Bart Senior" wrote:
For some reason the engine would start, but die when given some
throttle, or simply quit after a few minutes of operation. It started
fine every time. I checked the cut off valve and it was good. After
thinking about it tonight, I decided it must be the in-line electric fuel
pump I added to help bleed the system. I think if I pulled it out, the
problem will go away. We'll see.

Sounds like your fuel system may have a small leak that is sucking in
air when running. Sometimes air will leak into a tiny flaw where fuel
not leak out. Most of the time, if there's a leak, it will leak enough
to spot up a paper towel. This is less trouble than blanking it off and
pressurizing with air for a soap bubble test.


Steve Daniels wrote:
You can keep it, but cut it out of the system for normal
operation. This will look better in a fixed pitch font.

_____________________
| |
| |
A X C D B X
________|____X__P___X________|_______


In the above, lines are fuel lines. X is a valve, and P is your
electric pump.

During normal operation, valves A and B are open, and valves C
and D are closed. When you want to use the electric pump for
bleeding, reverse the valves.

You mean put in a bypass... if it's a centrifugal pump, he doesn't
really need a bypass (although it's nice to have one). He just needs
tight connections!

I just found out this week that a fuel leak I thought I'd fixed is still
there (but much smaller, so I at least did it some good). Some of the
connections are in difficult places to reach.

What kind of fittings, what kind of hose, Bart? I happen to like flares
but a lot of people like compression fittings of one type or another. I
have worked with flare fittings on hi-pressure air, hydraulics, various
gasses, and other stuff, for about 30 years and the biggest problem I've
had in over ten years has been our own fuel system!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

check your fuel filter.
Scout

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. ..
Hurricane Charlie was a wet firecracker here in Connecticut
today. This year everything has gone either north or south of
us.

Yesterday evening, predicted winds from Charlie were 39
mph winds and very heavy rain. One broadcast stated two
to four inches--which sounded ridiculous to me. To prepare
for it, I checked all ECHO's mooring lines, pumped the bilge,
went over to the HOOT and put bigger blocks on the trailer
wheels.

When I got home, I checked the forecast one more time,
no change, before calling my friends to cancel Sunday's sail.

Last night we had light rain and no downpours! I woke up
to find overcast sky's and a totally different forecast for light
winds 5-9 knots, and no rain! I checked four different weather
sources because I could not believe the forecasters could have
been so far off. They were.

Today, I called everyone and the sail was back on. Four cool
people showed up, helped me install my new backstay adjuster
and backstay. Last we I pulled my backstay and dropped if off
with a rigger to install two insulators in it. I was eager to get it
installed on the boat so I could sail this weekend.

I picked a long length to make the insulated portion of the backstay
plus the lead in wire around 66 feet. 68 feet is a 1/4 wave antenna
on the HAM 80 meter band and 1/2 wave antenna on the 40 meter
HAM band. I'm looking forward to trying it out with my ICOM radio
and antenna tuner. This set up should give me great regional coverage
for the east coast on 40 meters during the day and 80 meters at night.
I had a good contact with base stations as far away as Southern
California from Block Island, Rhode Island, with similar length antenna
a few years ago.

I was tempted to put a third insulator in the middle of the backstay
to build a loading coil around it, to center load the antenna, which
gives better radiation pattern. I may do that still. First I want to test
out my new antenna, which will take a bit more work to mount the
AT-4 tuner and make up a cable to connect it to my IC-706 radio.

I could not find anyone who would rebuild my Navtec backstay
adjustor, and guarantee the work, so I bought a new one. I'd
rather have a new one than spend the same amount of money
rebuilding an old one several times.

It was much easier installing the backstay with four people
helping versus only one taking it off. Winching my friend Mike
up 60 feet last Tuesday, by myself, was backbreaking. Today,
with no wind and lots of people it was fast and easy. Monica tailed
the big winch, and her husband George and I took turns on the
organ grinder, while Dawson kept the slack out of the safety line.
It may be overkill, but after feeling vulnerable at the top of a mast
many times with only one halyard, I've started using two halyards
a few years ago. Mike went up the mast again, and his climbing
efforts were improved over last time--a huge help! The whole job
took 30 minutes.

It turned out to be a pleasant sail. The overcast sky's kept us
from getting burned. We had only two problems, a wrap on the
forestay when jibing the drifter around the Middleground Lighthouse,
which was a pain to clear, and the engine quit when I was getting
ready to dock. Having extra crew made all the difference in each
case.

When the engine quit, I immediately anchored in the harbor, and
called the ferry on the radio, to let them know what was going on.
It was probably a nice change for them to have something different
happen. Fortunately there was room for the ferry's to get around
us, while George and Mike pumped up the inflatable. The inflatable
and outboard worked well to shove the boat back to the dock. If
I had more experienced crew I might have tried to sail it in, but I
wanted to back it in--so power was the best, albeit less elegant,
option.

For some reason the engine would start, but die when given some
throttle, or simply quit after a few minutes of operation. It started
fine every time. I checked the cut off valve and it was good. After
thinking about it tonight, I decided it must be the in-line electric fuel
pump I added to help bleed the system. I think if I pulled it out, the
problem will go away. We'll see.

All it all it was a nice surprise to sail on a day that was supposed
to be heavy downpours and high winds. And the bigger than usual
crew was a huge help. I didn't have to haul up my anchor or clean
that sinking mud off it, or even ask anyone to do it! Monica brought
sandwiches and drinks for all. It was a very nice day and came
together well at the last minute, even though it was planned and
canceled.

I'm not much of a planner and usually sail with small crews. I just like
to jump in the boat and go when the weather is perfect. But, at the
last minute finding crew can be a chore. Next time, I'll plan even
farther
in advance, and invite even more crew. Taking a chance on the weather
and planning in advance have advantages. I still don't know what to
do about those week days when the weather is perfect and I can't
find crew.

~Bart

Links for information on the radio, tuner and hardware used are listed
below.

Review of IC-706 ( I highly recommend this radio. I have two)
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/63

Review of AT-4 antenna Tuner (I highly recommend it)
http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/1071

Ronstan Insulator (Did I goof and buy something French?)
http://www.ronstan.com/catalogue/R102.pdf

Nactec integral backstay adjustor (Connecticut Company!)

http://www.navtec.net/products/index...ter&part_id=72

These are people who probably don't know how to sail. If they
learned on small boats they would understand how powerful the
wind really is.

"DSK" wrote

The marina was well prepared, except for a few stupid people who did not
take down their roller furled genoas... I climbed aboard two and added a
set of securing hitches, one with the owner standing there telling me
the whole time that he didn't need it, didn't want it, and I better come
back right after the storm and get it off of there. This is what a I
call a damn Yankee. Other people secured biminis & roller furlers for
people who either couldn't or wouldn't take them off themselves.

One of these bozos said to me, "The predicted wind is only 60 knots or
less, that's not going to be a problem." I told him that 1- less than 60
knots could shred his bimini, yank his genoa off it's furler and dismast
him, as well as causing major damage to boats around him (this last
being my own concern) and 2- there was a good possibility of tornados.
This guy also has dock lines that look like old ratty clothesline.. the
marina dockmaster had to loan him some real lines.

I"m using hose with barb fittings. I have 5/8" return lines
and 3/8" feed lines. I didn't have the right size barbs for
my secondary filter so I had to use a reduction barb.

Everything is double clamped.

The fuel is definitely good, from a clean tanks, and all
filters are new. The only thing I've changed recently is
the electric pump.

"DSK" wrote

What kind of fittings, what kind of hose, Bart? I happen to like flares
but a lot of people like compression fittings of one type or another. I
have worked with flare fittings on hi-pressure air, hydraulics, various
gasses, and other stuff, for about 30 years and the biggest problem I've
had in over ten years has been our own fuel system!

All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

Did it run OK after you changed filters. Air leak?

Scotty

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:45:54 GMT, "Bart Senior"
wrote:

I"m using hose with barb fittings. I have 5/8" return lines
and 3/8" feed lines. I didn't have the right size barbs for
my secondary filter so I had to use a reduction barb.

Everything is double clamped.

The fuel is definitely good, from a clean tanks, and all
filters are new. The only thing I've changed recently is
the electric pump.

"DSK" wrote

What kind of fittings, what kind of hose, Bart? I happen to like flares
but a lot of people like compression fittings of one type or another. I
have worked with flare fittings on hi-pressure air, hydraulics, various
gasses, and other stuff, for about 30 years and the biggest problem I've
had in over ten years has been our own fuel system!


Could your fuel tank vent line be blocked? I am no diesel mechanic,
but *if* you don't have bad fuel, fouled filters, I would check that.

Bart,

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH; In my old age, I've rediscovered the extension
ladder for going up the mast!

With my age and Neurologic disorder (MG) I can't go up and I can't winch
a crew up. I can set a ladder up, using a halyard. I crew going aloft
still wears a Bosun seat and a halyard but they can climb and tie
themselves off. I only have to take up the slack on a self tailing
winch. The crew works more comfortable from the tied off ladder and
secured bosun seat.

Ole Thom

"Bart Senior" wrote in message . net...


create a loop for the pump only if you must have one. Make it where
you can isolate the pump out of the system when not in use. Everyone I
know who did what you did has the same proble trying to suck fuel thru
a electrical pump without it on.

Why do you even need a pump besides the one on your engine?

Joe


I"m using hose with barb fittings. I have 5/8" return lines
and 3/8" feed lines. I didn't have the right size barbs for
my secondary filter so I had to use a reduction barb.

Everything is double clamped.

The fuel is definitely good, from a clean tanks, and all
filters are new. The only thing I've changed recently is
the electric pump.

"DSK" wrote

What kind of fittings, what kind of hose, Bart? I happen to like flares
but a lot of people like compression fittings of one type or another. I
have worked with flare fittings on hi-pressure air, hydraulics, various
gasses, and other stuff, for about 30 years and the biggest problem I've
had in over ten years has been our own fuel system!

Bart Senior wrote:
These are people who probably don't know how to sail. If they
learned on small boats they would understand how powerful the
wind really is.

I think that's a BIG issue. Most of these people don't know how to sail
a small boat (ie *really* sail) and don't want to learn; but I also
think there is the issue of not spending very much time on their boat
and not spending much money on their boat. OTOH I feel that if one
cannot afford to spend fifty or a hundred bucks on new dock lines, or
unwilling to, then one probably can't (or should not attempt to) afford
the boat.

But you could be too harsh in applying this kind of thinking... I spent
a few hours before the hurricane helping one of my wife's friends, who
is trying valiantly to keep her father's boat while on a very tight budget.

Then there's the guy with a lavishly equipped Colin Archer type of forty
feet or so, who sent his daughter and son-in-law who know nothing about
seamanship and care less, to secure the boat for the hurricane. Spent
some time helping them too, the son-in-law said that the old boy would
be better off watching Popeye cartoons. His boat was lavish but
dishevelled & disorganized, an accident waiting to happen (but for
different reasons).

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart Senior wrote:
I"m using hose with barb fittings. I have 5/8" return lines
and 3/8" feed lines. I didn't have the right size barbs for
my secondary filter so I had to use a reduction barb.

That shouldn't be a problem. I like to to use hard piping for most of
the fuel system but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably use flex
hose for more of it.


Everything is double clamped.

It can still leak ;)


The fuel is definitely good, from a clean tanks, and all
filters are new. The only thing I've changed recently is
the electric pump.

That's most likely where the problem is, I still suspect an air leak.

It wouldn't hurt to check the vent, as somebody else suggested.

One benefit to putting a bypass on the pump is that you can also tee in
a manifold to use the pump for polishing and transferring fuel as well.
That is my plan, I put in the tees but not the pump. I'm going to add
another set of tanks (probably flexible bladder type) in the
not-too-distant future. Add in some gages, too.

Regards
Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

The marina was well prepared, except for a few stupid people who did not
take down their roller furled genoas...

No doubt these were boats with Hood Line Drives with the loop tail not
cleated. :-)

Max

This is what a I
call a damn Yankee.

Give me a break....us damn Yankees secure our furling after every use....we
have storms with 70 mph straight line winds that shred gennies right off the
furler if they're not tied up....those are just plain dumb people...

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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I often wondered during hurricane Juan last year if it wasn't better just to
scuttle the damn boats that belonged to ignorant, inexperienced owners...
rather than allow them to become hazards to the vessels properly secured.

Cripes... on my boat I stripped every piece of loose cloth, dodger, rail
cloths, sails and gear from the decks and placed two anchors with major
chafe gear at 45 degrees to my mooring. I secured and stripped 5 other
vessels... the owners hadn't bothered coming out to do it themselves.

4 of the 5 thanked me profusely and purchased beer and rum for me. The 5th
never showed for the entire season.... I heard he had died on vacation and
his widow was housebound in grief.

3 vessels tore their moorings... all behind me because I secured all vessels
within what I believed was a striking perimeter. Those boats that tore
loose hit , damaged and/or sank 4 others. Of course nobody got blamed but
the insurance premiums went way up... for all of us!

Overproof suffered no damage at all. I dove to free the tangled mess of rode
and anchor.

You either rise to the challenge or get swamped by the results.

CM



"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
| These are people who probably don't know how to sail. If they
| learned on small boats they would understand how powerful the
| wind really is.
|
| "DSK" wrote
|
| The marina was well prepared, except for a few stupid people who did not
| take down their roller furled genoas... I climbed aboard two and added a
| set of securing hitches, one with the owner standing there telling me
| the whole time that he didn't need it, didn't want it, and I better come
| back right after the storm and get it off of there. This is what a I
| call a damn Yankee. Other people secured biminis & roller furlers for
| people who either couldn't or wouldn't take them off themselves.
|
| One of these bozos said to me, "The predicted wind is only 60 knots or
| less, that's not going to be a problem." I told him that 1- less than 60
| knots could shred his bimini, yank his genoa off it's furler and dismast
| him, as well as causing major damage to boats around him (this last
| being my own concern) and 2- there was a good possibility of tornados.
| This guy also has dock lines that look like old ratty clothesline.. the
| marina dockmaster had to loan him some real lines.
|
|
|

katysails wrote:
Give me a break....us damn Yankees secure our furling after every use....we
have storms with 70 mph straight line winds that shred gennies right off the
furler if they're not tied up....those are just plain dumb people...

I would not say anyone is a damn Yankee unless they
1- move to the South
2- screw something up through their own laziness or stupidity
3- announce that it is all because us Southerners don't understand

or

3 (alternate) cuss out a Southerner who is trying to help (in my case
out of self interest, sure).

In other words, if you secure your roller furler properly then you can't
be a damn Yankee. Sorry ;)

As for Yankees moving to the South, I don't like it but I don't blame
them. I have plenty of Yankee friends.... I prefer good Yankees to those
few southerners who are stupid & mean.

DSK

"DSK" wrote
Bart Senior wrote:
These are people who probably don't know how to sail. If they
learned on small boats they would understand how powerful the
wind really is.

I think that's a BIG issue. Most of these people don't know how to sail
a small boat (ie *really* sail) and don't want to learn; but I also
think there is the issue of not spending very much time on their boat
and not spending much money on their boat. OTOH I feel that if one
cannot afford to spend fifty or a hundred bucks on new dock lines, or
unwilling to, then one probably can't (or should not attempt to) afford
the boat.

I need new dock lines. For me it is a matter of time to splice them up
with thimbles and shackles. Also, I haven't decided if I want to keep the
boat bow in or stern in. With a 46' boat in a 40' slip, this is a big
consideration. I built a finger dock, but I'll need to extend it a ways
to be useful. Chances are I'll make up the new dock lines and then
decide to change everything around--that's boating. And it's probably
good seamanship to be willing to make necessary changes no matter
what the cost.

Ainslie just one a Finn race. Awesome wind in Athens. 25 knots and
gorgeous. Oh crap, now they are showing badminton! Time to change
the channel.

Then there's the guy with a lavishly equipped Colin Archer type of forty
feet or so, who sent his daughter and son-in-law who know nothing about
seamanship and care less, to secure the boat for the hurricane. Spent
some time helping them too, the son-in-law said that the old boy would
be better off watching Popeye cartoons. His boat was lavish but
dishevelled & disorganized, an accident waiting to happen (but for
different reasons).

I feel like that sometimes. I have 50 things to do.

Good point katy. Take 1 point. And a lash for Doug.

It was obviously a damn Reb if it was in the Chesapeake!

"katysails" wrote
This is what a I call a damn Yankee.

Give me a break....us damn Yankees secure our furling after every
use....we
have storms with 70 mph straight line winds that shred gennies right off
the
furler if they're not tied up....those are just plain dumb people...

I don't think I've met a Southerner that was stupid and
mean. I have to admit as a group, they rate about the
best in the US.

"DSK" wrote

As for Yankees moving to the South, I don't like it but I don't blame
them. I have plenty of Yankee friends.... I prefer good Yankees to those
few southerners who are stupid & mean.

Brilliant! I have the vent going into another tank.
I'll check that.


"felton" wrote

Could your fuel tank vent line be blocked? I am no diesel mechanic,
but *if* you don't have bad fuel, fouled filters, I would check that.

I put it on because I had trouble bleeding the system.

I've found that it was damn hard to bleed the system with
either a hand pump or electric. Later I found it was easy to
bleed the system with a little gravity assist.

I was planning on pulling it off anyway. I'd already clipped the
wires and the next step was to pull the pump.


"Joe" wrote

create a loop for the pump only if you must have one. Make it where
you can isolate the pump out of the system when not in use. Everyone I
know who did what you did has the same proble trying to suck fuel thru
a electrical pump without it on.

Why do you even need a pump besides the one on your engine?

"katysails" wrote in message

Give me a break....us damn Yankees secure our furling after every
use....we
have storms with 70 mph straight line winds that shred gennies right off
the
furler if they're not tied up....those are just plain dumb people...

According to the weather service, Katy, those you were referring to were
roughly 100mph straight line winds. Our ketch was heeled 45 degrees over in
her slip under bare poles.

Max

Hmm, I was thinking about going to hard lines!

"DSK" wrote

That shouldn't be a problem. I like to to use hard piping for most of
the fuel system but if I had to do it over again, I'd probably use flex
hose for more of it.

It wouldn't hurt to check the vent, as somebody else suggested.

One benefit to putting a bypass on the pump is that you can also tee in
a manifold to use the pump for polishing and transferring fuel as well.
That is my plan, I put in the tees but not the pump. I'm going to add
another set of tanks (probably flexible bladder type) in the
not-too-distant future. Add in some gages, too.

I'd like to have a fuel scrubbing system. Have you seen these fuel
monitoring systems that measure fuel flow and fuel return to track
fuel usage. I read about them a few months back and I'd like to
find out more about them. I don't want to be wondering how much
fuel I have.

It didn't run at all until I changed the filters and bleed the
system.

I'll bet it's either the fuel pump or else the return line. Either
of those fits the circumstances.

"Scott Vernon" wrote

Did it run OK after you changed filters. Air leak?

"Bart Senior" wrote
All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

Great idea Thom if you have a stiff or short mast.

My Etchells bends too much for an extension ladder, and the
Ericson's mast is about 55' off the deck.


"Thom Stewart" wrote
Bart,

FOR WHAT ITS WORTH; In my old age, I've rediscovered the extension
ladder for going up the mast!

With my age and Neurologic disorder (MG) I can't go up and I can't winch
a crew up. I can set a ladder up, using a halyard. I crew going aloft
still wears a Bosun seat and a halyard but they can climb and tie
themselves off. I only have to take up the slack on a self tailing
winch. The crew works more comfortable from the tied off ladder and
secured bosun seat.

Our ketch was heeled 45 degrees over in
her slip under bare poles.

Yes...I remember that one vividly...for awhile O thought your ketch was
going to become a part of my rigging....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



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that's because so many Yankees have migrated South.
Scout

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
I don't think I've met a Southerner that was stupid and
mean. I have to admit as a group, they rate about the
best in the US.

"DSK" wrote

As for Yankees moving to the South, I don't like it but I don't blame
them. I have plenty of Yankee friends.... I prefer good Yankees to those
few southerners who are stupid & mean.

I'd pull the filters again, just to be sure there isn't some restriction
there. Call me superstitious, but so many years working with fuel systems
has taught me that new means nothing.
Scout

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
It didn't run at all until I changed the filters and bleed the
system.

I'll bet it's either the fuel pump or else the return line. Either
of those fits the circumstances.

"Scott Vernon" wrote

Did it run OK after you changed filters. Air leak?

"Bart Senior" wrote
All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

Why would the return line cause it to lose fuel when you open the throttle?
If the purpose of the return line is to return unused fuel to the tank,
theoretically there is less fuel passing through it as you open the throttle
up.
Scout

"Bart Senior" wrote in message
et...
It didn't run at all until I changed the filters and bleed the
system.

I'll bet it's either the fuel pump or else the return line. Either
of those fits the circumstances.

"Scott Vernon" wrote

Did it run OK after you changed filters. Air leak?

"Bart Senior" wrote
All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

Scout wrote:
Why would the return line cause it to lose fuel when you open the throttle?
If the purpose of the return line is to return unused fuel to the tank,
theoretically there is less fuel passing through it as you open the throttle
up.

Not necessarily. With a Detroit, yes, but other types of injector
systems do it differently. With our diesel (Ford Lehman) for example
there is almost no return at idle, the return flow seems to be
proportional to throttle setting (although it jumps when the load changes).

A blocked return line could cause the engine to die but it would be more
likely to surge or be unresponsive to throttle first (disclaimer- I am
not an expert diesel mechanic and never played one on TV)

Your advice about checking the filter again even though its new is right
on. Say Bart do you have a vacuum gage on the filter outlet?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart Senior wrote:
I don't think I've met a Southerner that was stupid and
mean. I have to admit as a group, they rate about the
best in the US.

Thanks. I am a Southerner and am proud of it. Cultural differences are
being erased in this country, partly because of mass media and partly
because of everybody moving around so much.

There certainly are mean-spirited and/or stupid and/or dishonest
Sotherners, just like among any other people... we try to weed them out
early though ;) Some cultural anthropologists studying the matter have
identified a number of characteristics of Southerners, the main two are
generosity and sense of honor. This doesn't necessarily mean that
Southerners are more honest or have better families, just that we get
PO'd if you insult them!

Speaking of which, this guy is a hoot... genuine PhD and Southerner...
used to write a column for the local paper until it was bought up by a
Yankee franchise...
http://xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/REED/tears.html


DSK

Scout wrote:
that's because so many Yankees have migrated South.

It certainly explains the traffic problems. And why so many restaurants
have given up serving sweet tea.

DSK

Bart Senior wrote:
Hmm, I was thinking about going to hard lines!

There are a couple of benefits: greater flow is one, more compact, more
resistance to various kinds of stress, less prone to leakage in places
other than fittings... the down side is that they're more difficult to
fit, and you can't pull them out of the way to work on something else.
Over years, the hard copper pipe will work-harden with vibration and
become impossible to keep tight. The copper pipe I put in is mounted so
that (hopefully) the vibration will be minimum.


I'd like to have a fuel scrubbing system.

Me too... it's on the list, along with many other upgrades

... Have you seen these fuel
monitoring systems that measure fuel flow and fuel return to track
fuel usage.

Yep... a lot of control systems we work on have some fancy fuel flow &
fuel consumtion/efficiency packages.

... I read about them a few months back and I'd like to
find out more about them.

In industry, Siemens and ITT are about the best IMHO. For boats the
FloScan is popular and seems practical. I know a number of trawler
owners with these

http://www.floscan.com/html/index.asp

... I don't want to be wondering how much
fuel I have.

You'd need a flow meter hooked up to a totalizer. Really, that seems
like overkill for our boats. A good reliable tank level gage should be
fine... most are cheap junk, like the ones in cars... better than
nothing though!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scout wrote:
that's because so many Yankees have migrated South.

It certainly explains the traffic problems. And why so many
restaurants
have given up serving sweet tea.

Every truckstop across the country serves sweet tea, hon.

SV

Scott Vernon wrote:
Every truckstop across the country serves sweet tea, hon.

Dunno about truck stops, but most Waffle Houses do!

DSK

"Bart Senior" wrote ...
It didn't run at all until I changed the filters and bleed the
system.

Because the filters were clogged, or you had air in the system?
If the filters were clogged, the new one may have restriction already.
Did you inspect the rubber gasket? Do you have 2 fuel filters?

SV










I'll bet it's either the fuel pump or else the return line. Either
of those fits the circumstances.

"Scott Vernon" wrote

Did it run OK after you changed filters. Air leak?

"Bart Senior" wrote
All filters are new.

"Scout" wrote

check your fuel filter.

Mmmmmmmm pecan waffles......


"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scott Vernon wrote:
Every truckstop across the country serves sweet tea, hon.

Dunno about truck stops, but most Waffle Houses do!

DSK

Good points Doug.
Also, in many of the fuel pumps I've worked with, a severely restricted
return line will blow the pump seal.
Scout

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Scout wrote:
Why would the return line cause it to lose fuel when you open the
throttle?
If the purpose of the return line is to return unused fuel to the tank,
theoretically there is less fuel passing through it as you open the
throttle
up.

Not necessarily. With a Detroit, yes, but other types of injector
systems do it differently. With our diesel (Ford Lehman) for example
there is almost no return at idle, the return flow seems to be
proportional to throttle setting (although it jumps when the load
changes).

A blocked return line could cause the engine to die but it would be more
likely to surge or be unresponsive to throttle first (disclaimer- I am
not an expert diesel mechanic and never played one on TV)

Your advice about checking the filter again even though its new is right
on. Say Bart do you have a vacuum gage on the filter outlet?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King