Thanks for the input Thom,
I'll have to use the stanchion base, but it's easy enough. I will give it a
try.
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scout,

You, my friend, Need the topping lift. The way you sail and the boat you
sail you should be considering a "Cruising Vang" set-up and be-damned to
the Std Vang.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, I'll explain;

Sailing on the Delaware River
(especially on that bend at St Mary's Hall)
You need a Vang that is also a "Preventer" It is cheaper and more
effective on your size boat.

Set a block on each Toe-rail directly under the Boom's position when the
Boom is fully let out. If you have a metal toe rail. If not you can use
the hand rail stanchion base.
( Close enough is good enough) Run a lite line from the Boom thru the
block and back to the cockpit. If you don't have a cleat, use the stern
mooring cleats. I hook my lines to the Boom with loops to a cleat on the
Boom at about the Vang location. That's it!!

When on a reach, I can pull the Boom down with the off side sheet winch.
When running free, I use it as a preventer to stop the Accidental Jibe.
I use it also as a Boom brake while Jibing.

Try it. A lot cheaper than a vang and you get a preventer you can set
from the cockpit.

Let Doug have his solid vang

Ole Thom

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message

| So you've never seen one. It is at 25% and less when the
| boom is extended out. Here's a pic of one my little Canuck
| friend.
| http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...lay/s-10101/p-
| 1498/c-10101

Sorry.. got an error message on that link

|
|
| | A bascule type draw bridge?
|
| It's only lifting the bridge [boom] .. and again not at
| only 25% of the span
|
|
| Only the bridge? You have any idea what a bridge weighss?
| And the gear is at about 5%, I'd say.

Lifting the bridge / Lifting the boom - Geared rams / Solid Vang ... hang a
boat off the end of the ramp and see if it still lifts.


|
|
|
| | Any hydraulic crane with the boom out?
|
| Not at less than 25% of the boom.... extend the boom and
| the capacities
| decrease exponentially.
|
| Here's a pic of a Grove Crane, very popular in this area.
| See where the hyd cylinders are connected to the boom? I'd
| guess that's about 10%. What do you say?
| http://www.marcelequipment.com/Misc/grovert58c.htm

That rig will lift only it's own boom when the boom is fully extended in a
horizontal position Scotty. The max. capacity is of this model at 18 tons is
reached only with the stick up fully [vertical] and the load as close to the
rams as possible. This would base the weight closer to the rams.[and
counterweights]
Now anyone who has worked around such equipment would understand that the
crane's capacitiy decreases exponentially the further down the boom is
lowered. That's because the distance between the rams and the load point is
extended. At the point the rams reach less than 25% of the distance to the
load capacity is reduced to less than a 1/4 of it's maximum rated capacity.

BTW - I operated both Crane & Excavators many years ago.

Just for your benefit since it seems you have not bothered to read my
initial reply.. I'll just repost it below to refresh your memory.

"Look Scotty... if you place a pair of hydraulic rams to the end of the
boom.... or a distance greater than 50 % of the span.. then the issue
becomes moot. The specific point I'm making is that the rigid vang is badly
situated to handle loads delivered to the end of the boom.

I'll stand by that claim..."




| | An excavator?
|
| Double Hydraulic rams to the main boom at 50% distance or
| better to the
| elbow and a third along the top of the stick to control
| breakout and curl.
| Limits imposed are with bucket size and hydraulic
| capacity.
|
|
| Guess again office worker. Here's another pic for you.
| Can you say 10%?
|
| http://usediron.point2.com/Xhtml/Equ...ails/P2/Excava
| tor-Long-Reach/CATERPILLAR/320C/153870/ByManufacturer.html

First off I'm in the field not the office.
Secondly you'd better do some research on why that long stick has such a
small bucket.
The sixty foot long stick I worked with this spring could not lift anywhere
near it's same sized standard boom excavator. Long Sticks are generally used
for dredging work.. light loads, long reach. It has reduced break-out
abilities. Probably because the load is further away from the rams!!....
DUH!

Maybe you should google for serious excavators... drag lines used to do
really heavy lifting...


| | need more?
|
| Sure... the examples you provided so far hasn't done
| anything to convince me
| that the capacity of a lifting device secured to a
| location less than 25% of
| the span of the boom can lift as much as one located at
| the end of the boom.
|
| How about a diving board?

Dopey!! ... put Bob at the end of a diving board and see if you can lift
it from below close to the base? Now put a block and tackle [1ton] to the
end of the diving board and you should be able to lift it level.. even with
Bob on it.

|
| look at the pretty pictures again. Study them, measure them.
| Take a few days, then get back to me.

Yes Jax

CM

Yr right Thom, a few sharp turns on the Del (just a bit further up the River
does a 90 deg turn in about 2500 feet). The wind gets swirling too, due to
all the obstructions (e.g., a mountainous landfill) so it seems to be coming
from all directions. The current gets strong too, and when passing under the
two bridges, especially the PA turnpike bridge, it feels like the sailboat
equivalent of "shooting the rapids." I've never been able to sail upriver
through these points without the tide's help (or motor-sailing).
Scout

"Thom Stewart" wrote
[snip]
Sailing on the Delaware River
(especially on that bend at St Mary's Hall)
You need a Vang that is also a "Preventer" It is cheaper and more
effective on your size boat.

Good idea, but a word of caution. Most production stanchion bases I
have seen do not have enough meat in them to handle the shock loads
associated with a preventer. The little loops of steel do not have
enough weldment on the socket or base.


On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:22:31 -0700, (Thom Stewart)
wrote:

Scout,

You, my friend, Need the topping lift. The way you sail and the boat you
sail you should be considering a "Cruising Vang" set-up and be-damned to
the Std Vang.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, I'll explain;

Sailing on the Delaware River
(especially on that bend at St Mary's Hall)
You need a Vang that is also a "Preventer" It is cheaper and more
effective on your size boat.

Set a block on each Toe-rail directly under the Boom's position when the
Boom is fully let out. If you have a metal toe rail. If not you can use
the hand rail stanchion base.
( Close enough is good enough) Run a lite line from the Boom thru the
block and back to the cockpit. If you don't have a cleat, use the stern
mooring cleats. I hook my lines to the Boom with loops to a cleat on the
Boom at about the Vang location. That's it!!

When on a reach, I can pull the Boom down with the off side sheet winch.
When running free, I use it as a preventer to stop the Accidental Jibe.
I use it also as a Boom brake while Jibing.

Try it. A lot cheaper than a vang and you get a preventer you can set
from the cockpit.

Let Doug have his solid vang

Ole Thom

We take ours straight to the rail...tying off to the stanchion base also
weakens the seal and you end up with leaks from all the pull there....

"Marc" wrote in message
...
Good idea, but a word of caution. Most production stanchion bases I
have seen do not have enough meat in them to handle the shock loads
associated with a preventer. The little loops of steel do not have
enough weldment on the socket or base.


On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:22:31 -0700, (Thom Stewart)
wrote:

Scout,

You, my friend, Need the topping lift. The way you sail and the boat you
sail you should be considering a "Cruising Vang" set-up and be-damned to
the Std Vang.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, I'll explain;

Sailing on the Delaware River
(especially on that bend at St Mary's Hall)
You need a Vang that is also a "Preventer" It is cheaper and more
effective on your size boat.

Set a block on each Toe-rail directly under the Boom's position when the
Boom is fully let out. If you have a metal toe rail. If not you can use
the hand rail stanchion base.
( Close enough is good enough) Run a lite line from the Boom thru the
block and back to the cockpit. If you don't have a cleat, use the stern
mooring cleats. I hook my lines to the Boom with loops to a cleat on the
Boom at about the Vang location. That's it!!

When on a reach, I can pull the Boom down with the off side sheet winch.
When running free, I use it as a preventer to stop the Accidental Jibe.
I use it also as a Boom brake while Jibing.

Try it. A lot cheaper than a vang and you get a preventer you can set
from the cockpit.

Let Doug have his solid vang

Ole Thom

I've learned a lot with this boat. My next boat will have more bells and
whistles, and be more seaworthy. I've also worried about the stays being
ripped out by their roots, particularly when I've taken the boat outside,
through the inlet South of Long Beach Island, NJ. I've been tossed around a
good bit and wondered how much stress/shock they could handle.
Scout

"Marc" wrote in message
...
Good idea, but a word of caution. Most production stanchion bases I
have seen do not have enough meat in them to handle the shock loads
associated with a preventer. The little loops of steel do not have
enough weldment on the socket or base.


On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 14:22:31 -0700, (Thom Stewart)
wrote:

Scout,

You, my friend, Need the topping lift. The way you sail and the boat you
sail you should be considering a "Cruising Vang" set-up and be-damned to
the Std Vang.

If you aren't aware of what I'm talking about, I'll explain;

Sailing on the Delaware River
(especially on that bend at St Mary's Hall)
You need a Vang that is also a "Preventer" It is cheaper and more
effective on your size boat.

Set a block on each Toe-rail directly under the Boom's position when the
Boom is fully let out. If you have a metal toe rail. If not you can use
the hand rail stanchion base.
( Close enough is good enough) Run a lite line from the Boom thru the
block and back to the cockpit. If you don't have a cleat, use the stern
mooring cleats. I hook my lines to the Boom with loops to a cleat on the
Boom at about the Vang location. That's it!!

When on a reach, I can pull the Boom down with the off side sheet winch.
When running free, I use it as a preventer to stop the Accidental Jibe.
I use it also as a Boom brake while Jibing.

Try it. A lot cheaper than a vang and you get a preventer you can set
from the cockpit.

Let Doug have his solid vang

Ole Thom

"Capt. Mooron" wrote

| So you've never seen one. It is at 25% and less when the
| boom is extended out. Here's a pic of one my little Canuck
| friend.
| http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...lay/s-10101/p-
| 1498/c-10101

Sorry.. got an error message on that link


can't you cut & paste?

http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/P...1/p-1498/c-101
01

look at the first one. Closely.



|
| Only the bridge? You have any idea what a bridge weighss?
| And the gear is at about 5%, I'd say.

Lifting the bridge / Lifting the boom - Geared rams / Solid Vang ...
hang a
boat off the end of the ramp and see if it still lifts.


Yes, it will.




Maybe you should google for serious excavators... drag lines used to
do
really heavy lifting...


Serious drag lines/cranes (stick cranes) use a 'topping lift', so to
speak.


| need more?
|
| Sure... the examples you provided so far hasn't done
| anything to convince me
| that the capacity of a lifting device secured to a
| location less than 25% of
| the span of the boom can lift as much as one located at
| the end of the boom.


Well, duh, any 7th grade student knows that.

You wrote;
"Capt. Mooron" wrote

how many
lifting devices utilize a support located under the boom at less
than 25% of
the boom length? NONE!


And I gave you some examples to prove your statement false.




| How about a diving board?

Dopey!! ... put Bob at the end of a diving board and

it would break.



Now put a block and tackle [1ton] to the
end of the diving board and you should be able to lift it level..
even with
Bob on it.

better use a 5 ton.


Is there any body here who is smart & good looking?

Yes ,Jax

CM


Oiy!


Scotty

Scott,

You are going "a bit afield" on your comparison. Would you use a Grove
cherry picker arm for a boom on a sail? Would be a bit of overkill,
wouldn't it? Same for half a draw bridge. I sure as hell wouldn't want
to sail Wing-on-Wing anything heavier than my round Alum. Boom.

Imagine getting hit in the head with the weight of a Grove in an
accidental jibe?:^)

Ole Thom

Yes, Thom , I know. I'm just trying to knock the arrogant Mooron down
a notch by pointing out the falsehood of his statement.

Scotty


"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Scott,

You are going "a bit afield" on your comparison. Would you use a
Grove
cherry picker arm for a boom on a sail? Would be a bit of overkill,
wouldn't it? Same for half a draw bridge. I sure as hell wouldn't
want
to sail Wing-on-Wing anything heavier than my round Alum. Boom.

Imagine getting hit in the head with the weight of a Grove in an
accidental jibe?:^)

Ole Thom

Yes, Thom , I know. I'm just trying to knock the arrogant Mooron down
a notch by pointing out the falsehood of his statement.


Newsflash!!! Mooron owns a real sailing boat, unlike Scotty Potti's Paceresque,
Yugo Marine, K-Mart Keeled, krappy & sad Siedlemann.
But then he's secure enough to ignore this post. Whew!!!!! Lucky for me!

RB