The really sad part about this story is the fact that we 'need'
permission from a judge to carry a gun. John Wayne is rolling in his
grave. The damn liberal wussies are ruining this country.

Scotty


"John Deere" wrote in message
news:bHV0ZWZpc2s=.897c1041e783b283172e9d2e4e7abd38 @1092332473.nulluser
..com...
Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld
Judge cites terror threat in allowing gun.
Thursday, August 12, 2004
By TOM QUIGLEY
The Express-Times

BELVIDERE -- A Warren County ship captain may carry a concealed
weapon in
New Jersey waters and ports, state Superior Court Judge John Pursel
ruled
Wednesday.

The judge cited the post-Sept. 11 world of terrorist threats and the
recent
rise in the terrorist alert system as part of the reason for his
decision
to grant the carrying permit.

Authorities fear the ruling could lead to similar requests from
other
civilians who would normally face a daunting task in obtaining a New
Jersey
carrying permit -- permits that are tougher to obtain than those in
other
states, such as Pennsylvania.

"I would submit that it would open a floodgate of future
applications,"
said Warren County Assistant Prosecutor LeeAnn Cunningham in legal
paperwork submitted to the court earlier.

"For example," Cunningham wrote, "limousine drivers, helicopter
pilots,
etc. etc."

She said recent terrorist threats reported by news outlets involve
those
specific occupations.

But the judge ruled against the prosecutor's office and granted the
carrying permit to Hackettstown resident Salvatore Atanasio Jr.

Atanasio may only carry a gun when operating a ship or at port and
dock
facilities, the judge ruled.

The ship captain had requested a broader permit enabling him to
carry a
concealed gun at other times, authorities said.

Atanasio works for VIP Yacht Cruises and Yacht Charter Networks,
both out
of Weehawken, N.J., according to court papers.

He is a former merchant marine who has operated large passenger
ships and
other sea vessels during the past 15 years, the judge said in his
decision.

"Mr. Atanasio was pretty clear in his testimony that the threats
which he
faces are real," the judge wrote.

Pursel noted the Maritime Security Level for the waters in the New
York
area is at an all-time high.

Cunningham argued in part that New Jersey citizens are not entitled
to a
carrying permit based only on "generalized fears" or "to protect
property."

But the judge found Atanasio's concerns are much broader.

"It is about protecting the public interest by protecting people or
the
infrastructure in light of the genuine threats which have been
disseminated
daily to the public," the judge wrote.

The assistant prosecutor argued trained security professionals are
available to protect ships.

But the judge found Atanasio's qualifications and past training made
him
the most qualified person to secure a ship since he knows the vessel
better
than anyone.

Cunningham also questioned the validity of the carrying permit when
Atanasio sails into the waters of New York and Connecticut.

Atanasio currently commands ships carrying between 150 to 600
passengers on
sailings throughout the New York area and along the eastern
seaboard, court
papers show.

The captain testified the ship's "wheel area" is protected only by a
wooden
door that could easily be stormed and leave him helpless.

The captain said the ships he commands could then be used to ram a
larger
vessel.

He told the judge it would take the U.S. Coast Guard anywhere from
15
minutes to an hour to respond if his vessel were in distress while
at sea.

A gun would enable him to gain some time until a Coast Guard boat
arrived,
he argued.

Authorities said the federal Homeland Security Department has made
no
provision for ships captains to carry a weapon on board.

Airline pilots are now permitted to carry guns in the cockpit under
specific guidelines.

Warren County Prosecutor Thomas Ferguson said his office will not
appeal
the judge's ruling.

Ferguson said state law does not prevent a ship's captain from
obtaining a
carrying permit.

He said most carrying permits go to former police officers who
become
involved in private security.

"But the statute doesn't limit it to them," he added.

Ferguson said the judge's decision to limit the scope of the
carrying
permit was a good one.

"We're satisfied with the judge's decision and we're going to leave
it
there," the prosecutor said.


http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/...sf?/base/news-
5/1092314139117720.xml

Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld
Judge cites terror threat in allowing gun.
Thursday, August 12, 2004
By TOM QUIGLEY
The Express-Times

BELVIDERE -- A Warren County ship captain may carry a concealed weapon in
New Jersey waters and ports, state Superior Court Judge John Pursel ruled
Wednesday.

The judge cited the post-Sept. 11 world of terrorist threats and the recent
rise in the terrorist alert system as part of the reason for his decision
to grant the carrying permit.

Authorities fear the ruling could lead to similar requests from other
civilians who would normally face a daunting task in obtaining a New Jersey
carrying permit -- permits that are tougher to obtain than those in other
states, such as Pennsylvania.

"I would submit that it would open a floodgate of future applications,"
said Warren County Assistant Prosecutor LeeAnn Cunningham in legal
paperwork submitted to the court earlier.

"For example," Cunningham wrote, "limousine drivers, helicopter pilots,
etc. etc."

She said recent terrorist threats reported by news outlets involve those
specific occupations.

But the judge ruled against the prosecutor's office and granted the
carrying permit to Hackettstown resident Salvatore Atanasio Jr.

Atanasio may only carry a gun when operating a ship or at port and dock
facilities, the judge ruled.

The ship captain had requested a broader permit enabling him to carry a
concealed gun at other times, authorities said.

Atanasio works for VIP Yacht Cruises and Yacht Charter Networks, both out
of Weehawken, N.J., according to court papers.

He is a former merchant marine who has operated large passenger ships and
other sea vessels during the past 15 years, the judge said in his decision.

"Mr. Atanasio was pretty clear in his testimony that the threats which he
faces are real," the judge wrote.

Pursel noted the Maritime Security Level for the waters in the New York
area is at an all-time high.

Cunningham argued in part that New Jersey citizens are not entitled to a
carrying permit based only on "generalized fears" or "to protect property."

But the judge found Atanasio's concerns are much broader.

"It is about protecting the public interest by protecting people or the
infrastructure in light of the genuine threats which have been disseminated
daily to the public," the judge wrote.

The assistant prosecutor argued trained security professionals are
available to protect ships.

But the judge found Atanasio's qualifications and past training made him
the most qualified person to secure a ship since he knows the vessel better
than anyone.

Cunningham also questioned the validity of the carrying permit when
Atanasio sails into the waters of New York and Connecticut.

Atanasio currently commands ships carrying between 150 to 600 passengers on
sailings throughout the New York area and along the eastern seaboard, court
papers show.

The captain testified the ship's "wheel area" is protected only by a wooden
door that could easily be stormed and leave him helpless.

The captain said the ships he commands could then be used to ram a larger
vessel.

He told the judge it would take the U.S. Coast Guard anywhere from 15
minutes to an hour to respond if his vessel were in distress while at sea.

A gun would enable him to gain some time until a Coast Guard boat arrived,
he argued.

Authorities said the federal Homeland Security Department has made no
provision for ships captains to carry a weapon on board.

Airline pilots are now permitted to carry guns in the cockpit under
specific guidelines.

Warren County Prosecutor Thomas Ferguson said his office will not appeal
the judge's ruling.

Ferguson said state law does not prevent a ship's captain from obtaining a
carrying permit.

He said most carrying permits go to former police officers who become
involved in private security.

"But the statute doesn't limit it to them," he added.

Ferguson said the judge's decision to limit the scope of the carrying
permit was a good one.

"We're satisfied with the judge's decision and we're going to leave it
there," the prosecutor said.


http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/...sf?/base/news-
5/1092314139117720.xml

In article bHV0ZWZpc2s=.897c1041e783b283172e9d2e4e7abd38@109 2332473.nulluser.com,
John Deere wrote:
Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld
Judge cites terror threat in allowing gun.
Thursday, August 12, 2004
By TOM QUIGLEY
The Express-Times

Seems reasonable to me... he's already a known quantity.

--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

John Deere wrote:

http://www.nj.com/news/expresstimes/nj/index.ssf?/base/news-5/1092314139117720.xml

So what's this have to do with the second ammendment? Yes, I know that
it's the title of the article, but as near as I can tell, the judges
decision is not based on the 2nd ammendment, and the plaintiff's case
did not cite the 2nd amendment.

The judge didn't overturn any regulations on constitutional grounds, he
just ruled that under the existing regulations the captain should be
issued a concealed carry permit. (BTW, it sounds like a reasonable
decision to me.)

If it was a 2nd amendment case, it would really be news. The body of
case law involving the 2nd amendment is very thin. In particular, I'm
unaware of any law that's been invalidated on Second amendment grounds
in modern times (i.e. post 1900) .


--
//-Walt
//
// http://cagle.slate.msn.com/working/040514/matson.gif

So basically, you have nothing much to contribute to the thread.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:41:13 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"
said:

Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld

Without expressing an opinion one way or another on whether the decision was
right, it looks to me like both the subject line and the above lead-in are
misleading. The decision, at least as summarized in the post, appears to
have nothing whatever to do with the Second Amendment, but to be based
entirely on interpreting the State law.

Jonathan



--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

I just thought I would go and the record and say I agreed with
you...but just this once We have guns a'plenty down in here in
Texas. The only way to really get into trouble is venture into Mexico
with so much as a single round of ammunition. Off to the Mexican
prison you go. They are VERY strict over there about that sort of
thing. In Texas even liberals have a gun or two


On 12 Aug 2004 15:37:17 -0500, Dave wrote:

On 12 Aug 2004 13:19:09 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

So basically, you have nothing much to contribute to the thread.

For those like you whose appreciation of such things seems at best limited,
it may be useful to point out the difference between a decision based on a
NJ statute, that applies only in NJ and can be changed any time by the NJ
legislature, and a decision based on the 2nd Amendment, which would apply
nationwide and could not be changed by the legislature.

Of course not, but you feel obligated to take the bait
and respond.

Makes you look kinda stupid don't it doggie.

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On 12 Aug 2004 13:19:09 -0700, (Jonathan Ganz)
said:

So basically, you have nothing much to contribute to the thread.

For those like you whose appreciation of such things seems at best limited,
it may be useful to point out the difference between a decision based on a
NJ statute, that applies only in NJ and can be changed any time by the NJ
legislature, and a decision based on the 2nd Amendment, which would apply
nationwide and could not be changed by the legislature.

But then you didn't expect your comment to add anything to the discussion
anyway, did you.

Jonathan


--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."

I agree. It seems to show, what is well known, that the Second Amendment
has been overturned in New Jersey.

"Dave" wrote
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:41:13 -0000 (GMT), "John Deere"

said:

Ship captain's Second Amendment rights upheld

Without expressing an opinion one way or another on whether the decision
was
right, it looks to me like both the subject line and the above lead-in are
misleading. The decision, at least as summarized in the post, appears to
have nothing whatever to do with the Second Amendment, but to be based
entirely on interpreting the State law.

God Bless Texas!

"felton" wrote

thing. In Texas even liberals have a gun or two

You live in a liberal state?? How amusing...

In article ,
Dave wrote:
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:54:02 GMT, felton said:

We have guns a'plenty down in here in
Texas.

I know what you mean. I got my first gun at about 11. But aside from
military service I don't think I've fired one in 40 years. One of many
things not allowed in NYC.




--
Jonathan Ganz (j gan z @ $ail no w.c=o=m)
http://www.sailnow.com
"If there's no wind, row."