Can I add ballast to my 470 so I can singlehand it more easily? If
so, what would be the best way to do it?

Thanks

Richard

Richard Randall wrote:
Can I add ballast to my 470 so I can singlehand it more easily?

You can definitely add ballast, I dunno how effective it will be at
making it easier to singlehand. The most effect it would probably have
would be to make it a lot slower, harder to launch & retrieve,
overstress the CB pivot & trunk, and *might* make it slower to turtle
once you've capsized.

In short, as an old 470 sailor, I think it's a bad idea.

... If
so, what would be the best way to do it?

If turtling is the problem, the best answer is to tie a gallon jug to
the mainsail headboard. If you sail in rough water, either tie two, or
else get a small laundry bag and put a beach ball in it, and fasten that
there. The added buoyancy at the mast tip will keep the boat from
turtling and you can right it at leisure.

The biggest problem singlehanding a 470 that I can see is keeping all
the control lines from getting hopelessly tangled. The boat is the
original "spaghetti factory."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

The biggest problem singlehanding a 470 that I can see is keeping all
the control lines from getting hopelessly tangled. The boat is the
original "spaghetti factory."

I think the *original* spaghetti factory was the Flying Dutchman. I agree
that the 470 has enough line to look like a pot of pasta aboil, but there
were two occasions when I wound up with a leg bound by wrapped lines after a
particularly hairy jibe mark in the FD. One sailor in our fleet actually
got dragged behind his FD after falling overboard with lines wrapped around
one of his legs. And we always seemed to have lines trailing out the
Elvstrom bailers. I've heard 470s described as mini-FDs on occasion, I
think more for the mess of lines in the cockpit rather than any similarity
in appearance or performance. The Tempest is another spaghetti factory.

Max

Would shortening sail help? Can it be done on the 470?

Scotty

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Richard Randall wrote:
Can I add ballast to my 470 so I can singlehand it more easily?

You can definitely add ballast, I dunno how effective it will be at
making it easier to singlehand. The most effect it would probably have
would be to make it a lot slower, harder to launch & retrieve,
overstress the CB pivot & trunk, and *might* make it slower to turtle
once you've capsized.

In short, as an old 470 sailor, I think it's a bad idea.

... If
so, what would be the best way to do it?

If turtling is the problem, the best answer is to tie a gallon jug to
the mainsail headboard. If you sail in rough water, either tie two, or
else get a small laundry bag and put a beach ball in it, and fasten that
there. The added buoyancy at the mast tip will keep the boat from
turtling and you can right it at leisure.

The biggest problem singlehanding a 470 that I can see is keeping all
the control lines from getting hopelessly tangled. The boat is the
original "spaghetti factory."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Scott Vernon wrote:
Would shortening sail help? Can it be done on the 470?

Not as usually rigged. It's got a low boom and a bendy mast. You could
put a jiffy reef on it, but it would be difficult to tie in while underway.


Maxprop wrote:
I think the *original* spaghetti factory was the Flying Dutchman.

Ah yes. I stand corrected.


... One sailor in our fleet actually
got dragged behind his FD after falling overboard with lines wrapped around
one of his legs.

That's not such an unusal trick. I've done that on a number of boats
including a JY-15, not really much spaghetti on that one.


And we always seemed to have lines trailing out the
Elvstrom bailers.

Yeah, that's one reason why I hate Elvstrom bailers. They're a great
example of 1950s technology; better than heavy boats with no flotation
and no self-bailers but when you could have a fully self-rescuing, dry
cockpit, open transom, whatever... why???


.... I've heard 470s described as mini-FDs on occasion, I
think more for the mess of lines in the cockpit rather than any similarity
in appearance or performance.

I think the 470 is a little more power per pound, but the Dutchman is a
faster more powerful boat overall. Beautiful, too. Both FD & 470 could
benefit from an update... square head main, double trap, big A-sail...
yee haw!

... The Tempest is another spaghetti factory.

I never liked the Tempest that much. It's a nice boat but it's really a
big 2-person show-off machine. The only benefit it gains from the size
& the keel is that it's better for open water & rougher conditions...
except that they're all old and creaky at this point. Give me a Star or
a Johnson 18 (wait a minute... already got one) or a 505... or a 470 for
that matter!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message

Yeah, that's one reason why I hate Elvstrom bailers. They're a great
example of 1950s technology; better than heavy boats with no flotation
and no self-bailers but when you could have a fully self-rescuing, dry
cockpit, open transom, whatever... why???

We bought a new Snipe from Chubasco (a now-defunct company in El Cajon, CA)
years ago. It came with transom cut-outs and Elvstrom bailers as standard
equipment. I requested that the bailers not be installed, and the company
rep questioned my request. Ultimately I ended up installing two super max
units in the bilge pockets because after self-rescuing the bilge still held
around 10 gallons of water. 10 gal = 80lbs. About like taking someone's kid
along. At least on the Snipe the bailers were a necessary evil.

Max

Maxprop wrote:
We bought a new Snipe from Chubasco (a now-defunct company in El Cajon, CA)
years ago. It came with transom cut-outs and Elvstrom bailers as standard
equipment. I requested that the bailers not be installed, and the company
rep questioned my request. Ultimately I ended up installing two super max
units in the bilge pockets because after self-rescuing the bilge still held
around 10 gallons of water. 10 gal = 80lbs. About like taking someone's kid
along. At least on the Snipe the bailers were a necessary evil.

Well, that's a Snipe. I can assure you that there are plenty of
one-designs that the water drains out of completely and quickly.

In 1968 my father saw the light and bought our first fiberglass boat...
had only raced wooden boats up until then. The crew was the bailer. We
test sailed and rejected a number of boats and bought an almost-new
Flying Junior which was completely self-bailing. No Elvstrom bailers,
any water that got in ran right back out through the transom flaps.

What a revelation! Since then I have never had much desire to sail boats
that lugged a ton a water around in the bilge, and have limited patience
with poor in-betweeners like the Laser (or for that matter, the
Lightning). The Johnson 18 is fully self-bailing, and it's a good thing
too. As my wife says, "It's like jumping on a trampoline while four or
five people spray you with fire hoses. The water gushes in but
fortunately gushes back out again."

The last 470 that I raced seriously was a mid-1970s Cima (Spanish built)
that had a full double floor, and was totally self bailing. Not only did
it not ever have any water in it, the raised cockpit floor made it
faster to tack & easier for the crew to hook on. It was also built with
a grid that made the hull very stiff even after some years of hard
sailing... that boat, wherever it is, is probably still competitive.

The Snipe is a nice boat though, I can see racing in a class that isn't
such a great boat if you have an emotional attachment to it, such as I
have with Lightnings. But then I've been spoiled by sailing some really
nice boats

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Scott Vernon" wrote in message

Would shortening sail help? Can it be done on the 470?

Racing dinghies, as a general rule, have no provision for shortening sail,
either main or jib. Many sailors of these boats simply carry a huge luff in
the main to ease the heeling force. I've raced Snipes in 15kts. which ain't
fun, but letting the main luff to the forward edge of the battens pretty
much does the trick.

Max

Good question. I don't know. I have to sail with a jib because it is
integrated with the forestay. But I was thinking about taking one of
my old mains and having reefs put in. Or maybe sailing without a main?
Has anyone done this? DSK, what do you think?

I know I'm sacrificing speed here, but sailing singlehanded excludes
racing anyway. I don't mind going slow if I can go out more often.
It's just that when the wind picks up, I can't go out by myself.



"Scott Vernon" wrote in message ...
Would shortening sail help? Can it be done on the 470?

Scotty

"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Richard Randall wrote:
Can I add ballast to my 470 so I can singlehand it more easily?

You can definitely add ballast, I dunno how effective it will be at
making it easier to singlehand. The most effect it would probably have
would be to make it a lot slower, harder to launch & retrieve,
overstress the CB pivot & trunk, and *might* make it slower to turtle
once you've capsized.

In short, as an old 470 sailor, I think it's a bad idea.

... If
so, what would be the best way to do it?

If turtling is the problem, the best answer is to tie a gallon jug to
the mainsail headboard. If you sail in rough water, either tie two, or
else get a small laundry bag and put a beach ball in it, and fasten that
there. The added buoyancy at the mast tip will keep the boat from
turtling and you can right it at leisure.

The biggest problem singlehanding a 470 that I can see is keeping all
the control lines from getting hopelessly tangled. The boat is the
original "spaghetti factory."

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"Scott Vernon" wrote...
Would shortening sail help? Can it be done on the 470?



Richard Randall wrote:
Good question. I don't know. I have to sail with a jib because it is
integrated with the forestay. But I was thinking about taking one of
my old mains and having reefs put in. Or maybe sailing without a main?
Has anyone done this? DSK, what do you think?

Well, if you've got an old main that you want to experiment with...

I'd suggest getting it re-cut to flatten it (although 470 sails are
already pretty flat IIRC) and take the roach off. No battens, a hollow
curve from boom to mast tip. That will take a LOT of heeling moment off
and it shouldn't affect the helm balance too much. Or you could cut the
leach hollow up to the top batten and put in a really stiff top batten,
that would keep some of the power but make it easier to handle. IMHO
that would be better than trying to put on jiffy or slab reefing.



I know I'm sacrificing speed here, but sailing singlehanded excludes
racing anyway. I don't mind going slow if I can go out more often.
It's just that when the wind picks up, I can't go out by myself.

No racing? Don't you have a handicap class locally? I race the Johnson
18 singehanded sometimes, setting the spinnaker is really fun and I
sometimes wish for a trapeze. Anyway the 470 is a nice boat for good
wind... we had our best races in 20+... so I can see why you want to go!

Fresh Breezes- Doug King