It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that
aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing.

There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane
and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you
how far above the ground you are. none.

JAXAshby wrote:
It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that
aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing.


There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane
and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you
how far above the ground you are. none.


Don't know too many planes that can stop in midair and hover till they
figure things out....... (just for starters)

otn

huh?

It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that
aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing.


There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an
airplane
and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell
you
how far above the ground you are. none.


Don't know too many planes that can stop in midair and hover till they
figure things out....... (just for starters)

otn

JAXAshby wrote:
huh?

Well waddya know, an intelligent post. Navigation/navigating includes
the entire process of getting between point A and B. A big difference in
boats is that you can stop and check your work, whereas with a plane you
can't (well, you can circle for awhile, if you have the fuel). One
reason straight DR in zero visibility may be frowned on with planes.

otn

There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an

airplane

and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell

you

how far above the ground you are. none.


Don't know too many planes that can stop in midair and hover till they
figure things out....... (just for starters)

otn

One
reason straight DR in zero visibility may be frowned on with planes.

no, the reason it is illegal is that you can not know where you are. period,
as in can not.

DR in a boat is okay when you are hundreds of miles from any rocks. It is not
okay when there is anything around to hit.

recreational boats regularly hit the rocks in fog upto recent history with the
advent of cheap Lorans and later GPS's and to a limited extent RDF (which had
much higher degrees of uncertainty).

Good Grief Jaxxies....... you are as idiotic as I originally assumed.

You have failed to locate the Gulf Stream..... you have failed to navigate
your way out of the idiotic stream of incredulous idiocy you've managed to
sail into inadvertently.

When confronted with common sense advise you simply retract your head like a
turtle and attempt to avoid the obvious.

I can tell this while inebriated.... imagine how many of the sober are
holding you to ridicule!

CM

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
| One
| reason straight DR in zero visibility may be frowned on with planes.
|
| no, the reason it is illegal is that you can not know where you are.
period,
| as in can not.
|
| DR in a boat is okay when you are hundreds of miles from any rocks. It is
not
| okay when there is anything around to hit.
|
| recreational boats regularly hit the rocks in fog upto recent history with
the
| advent of cheap Lorans and later GPS's and to a limited extent RDF (which
had
| much higher degrees of uncertainty).

"Capt. Mooron" wrote:


When confronted with common sense advise you simply retract your head like a
turtle and attempt to avoid the obvious.

A gross and cruel libel on turtles.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
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Subject: DR practice
From: (JAXAshby)
Date: 07/18/2004 17:31 Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

One
reason straight DR in zero visibility may be frowned on with planes.

no, the reason it is illegal is that you can not know where you are. period,
as in can not.

DR in a boat is okay when you are hundreds of miles from any rocks. It is
not
okay when there is anything around to hit.

In all the years you've harped on this subject, it's become painfully clear you
have not and can not grasp the basic practices of "DR".
You've read somplace that the term should only be ded reckoning and that it
only involves speed,time, and heading, and will go to your death bed "knowing"
that anything else is sacrilege.
Problem is, most who spend any time on the water have learned to use other
things to help improve their "DR" plots so that they can safely navigate where
you would never tread.
Problem is, these things don't fit in your narrow view of DR, so you can't
accept them as being DR or being useful and trying to explain these things to
you is a waste of time as you can't seem to comprehend them or make use of
them.
In reality, you need to do or watch someone do these things, so you can learn
how to do them but odds of you ever doing that are slim to none.

Don't waste your time responding, as I know you will not have understood the
point being made.

Shen

PS recreational boats regularly hit rocks even with gps

Jaxie's simplistic mind can't cope with mixing two concepts. He confuses "using
DR" with "relying 100% on DR." He never figured out that combining DR with
other info, such as observing lobster pots, depth soundings, and fog signals is
generally adequate.

He seems terrified of coastal cruising, but at the same time claims that
learning both DR and piloting techniques is worthless. My favorite "jaxisms"
involve his misunderstanding of piloting and his belief that compasses are
worthless.

-------------------

On Navigation (or is he talking about snakes?):
This one kept us going for a month or so - Jax insists that piloting skills are
not needed in sight of land.

"scootss, you need *piloting* to "get around" in the Cheasepeake? All that
water and land and islands and markers and lights and boas confuse you?"

-------------------

Just to make sure he meant that:

you claimed that
piloting skills are not needed for sailing waters like LIS.

"They are not. You can see everything easily. Getting lost on western LIS is
impossible (unless you're dumb enough to go out in one of the rare fogs.)"

-----------
... Somewhere in there you implied
that taking a course on navigation was a total waste of time and money.

"You need a nav course to see a daymarker a half mile away? (besides, one of the
**serious** problems of a nav course -- as taught by the USPS -- is that a
compass and knot log is all you need to avoid hitting the rocks in a fog.)"

------------------------
on compasses and navigation:
Jax has a pathological fear of using a compass. Since he never learned any
piloting skills, he believes the compass is useless:

"a compass never has told you anything other than which way is North and so
never was worth much as a "navigation" tool."
---------
"no, jeffie, this the point that JAX with the experience tells you without that
you can't navigate with a compass."

--------------------------------
On variation & compasses:
Since he never uses a compass, he doesn't understand variation:

I think it's about 14 degree east here in nyc.

That's strange, my chart of New York City says
"Var 13 degrees 15 minutes WEST"

jeff, if you say it's west instead of east, I say okay. I use charts of nyc
area to know where the rocks are. Compass isn't much use there, is it?

--------------------------
On compass dip and variation, he thinks dip is built into the compass:

"markie, dip is a function of the compass construction. Variation is a function
of the Earth. Anyone who claims to be "The Navigator" should know this, don't
you think?"

it
only involves speed,time, and heading,

shen, that *IS* the definition of ded reckoning. what you describe "improved"
DR is in fact pilotage, a whole different breed of cat.