jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.

I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.

JAXAshby wrote:
jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise navigating,
not me.

jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

I never made any such claim. In fact, I was only asserting the simple fact that
DR does involve known reference points.

I've never claimed the DR was "precise," I've only claimed that it is good
enough to be useful, and a necessary skill for any skipper that wishes to be
competent.

You're the one who claims that DR is so worthless that navigation without GPS is
physically impossible. And since you've admitted to being lost with two
functioning GPS's onboard, its a good thing you don't actually go sailing at
all.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise navigating,
not me.

jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

jeffies, **if** you know where you are using known (sic) reference point, THEN
that is called pilotage, not deduced reckoning.

you have changed the definition of the term DR to that of pilotage. you can
change it to green Shinola if you wish but it still doesn't make it safe to
wonder around in a fog with rocks anywhere near by.

I never made any such claim. In fact, I was only asserting the simple fact
that
DR does involve known reference points.

I've never claimed the DR was "precise," I've only claimed that it is good
enough to be useful, and a necessary skill for any skipper that wishes to be
competent.

You're the one who claims that DR is so worthless that navigation without GPS
is
physically impossible. And since you've admitted to being lost with two
functioning GPS's onboard, its a good thing you don't actually go sailing at
all.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise
navigating,
not me.

jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word
"pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

Every DR plot starts with a FIX. Its just that simple, jaxie, live with it.

Perhaps you should go back to that Power Squadron course you dropped out off -
they'll probably let you in so you can learn about this stuff.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, **if** you know where you are using known (sic) reference point, THEN
that is called pilotage, not deduced reckoning.

you have changed the definition of the term DR to that of pilotage. you can
change it to green Shinola if you wish but it still doesn't make it safe to
wonder around in a fog with rocks anywhere near by.

I never made any such claim. In fact, I was only asserting the simple fact
that
DR does involve known reference points.

I've never claimed the DR was "precise," I've only claimed that it is good
enough to be useful, and a necessary skill for any skipper that wishes to be
competent.

You're the one who claims that DR is so worthless that navigation without GPS
is
physically impossible. And since you've admitted to being lost with two
functioning GPS's onboard, its a good thing you don't actually go sailing at
all.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise
navigating,
not me.

jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word
"pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

jeffies, "that fix" becomes an unknown -- and unknowable -- point the minute
you start moving. Claiming otherwise does not make it otherwise.

Every DR plot starts with a FIX. Its just that simple, jaxie, live with it.

Perhaps you should go back to that Power Squadron course you dropped out off
-
they'll probably let you in so you can learn about this stuff.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, **if** you know where you are using known (sic) reference point,
THEN
that is called pilotage, not deduced reckoning.

you have changed the definition of the term DR to that of pilotage. you
can
change it to green Shinola if you wish but it still doesn't make it safe to
wonder around in a fog with rocks anywhere near by.

I never made any such claim. In fact, I was only asserting the simple
fact
that
DR does involve known reference points.

I've never claimed the DR was "precise," I've only claimed that it is good
enough to be useful, and a necessary skill for any skipper that wishes to
be
competent.

You're the one who claims that DR is so worthless that navigation without
GPS
is
physically impossible. And since you've admitted to being lost with two
functioning GPS's onboard, its a good thing you don't actually go sailing
at
all.



"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise
navigating,
not me.

jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word
"pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.


I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.



..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new
argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to
pawn it off as "someone else said".
Lame attempt, try again.

otn

No jaxie, I didn't mention "known ladmarks" and I wasn't referring to
"pilotage." Its very simple: any DR plot begins with a known reference point
called a "fix." If you knew anything about DR you would understand that. I
would guess that most pilots know what their starting point is - that's a
reference point.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.

I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.

jeffies, you definitely said *you* know where *you* are because you have
reference points in DR. listen to me. you do NOT have reference points in DR.
you ONLY have where you started (and you don't even know where that is once
you have started), your speed through the medium and which direction mag North
is. That's it.

No jaxie, I didn't mention "known ladmarks" and I wasn't referring to
"pilotage." Its very simple: any DR plot begins with a known reference
point
called a "fix." If you knew anything about DR you would understand that. I
would guess that most pilots know what their starting point is - that's a
reference point.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.

I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies, you definitely said *you* know where *you* are because you have
reference points in DR.

Show us where I said that. You're fantasizing an entire discussion, jaxie.
Time for those meds.

listen to me. you do NOT have reference points in DR.
you ONLY have where you started

That's one reference point ...

(and you don't even know where that is once
you have started), your speed through the medium and which direction mag North
is.

That's another reference point.

That's it.

I think "2" is substantially difference than "0." You've just admitted that DR
has two reference points. Maybe you're catching on after all, jaxie.



No jaxie, I didn't mention "known ladmarks" and I wasn't referring to
"pilotage." Its very simple: any DR plot begins with a known reference
point
called a "fix." If you knew anything about DR you would understand that. I
would guess that most pilots know what their starting point is - that's a
reference point.




"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage".
he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same.

I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to
change the definition.