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Pilots laughing at me? Are these the pilots who don't know what airport they
take off from? No wonder you don't think it physically possible to navigate without a GPS - you don't know where you are to start! "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Of course DR requires a known reference point. If you weren't so convinced navigation is impossible without a GPS you might learn how it works. jeffies, virtually every last pilot in the country with a valid license is laughing at you. "flying blind" is illegal, and has been for seven some decades, and for good reason. All pilots know that and know why. you have changed the definition of DR to that of "pilotage", as in going from one known landmark to the next. |
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yeah, 200,000 pilots in the country, and every last one of them is either
laughing at you for your lack of skills and understanding, or shaking their heads at the danger you put yourself and your family so stew ped lee in. Pilots laughing at me? Are these the pilots who don't know what airport they take off from? No wonder you don't think it physically possible to navigate without a GPS - you don't know where you are to start! "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... Of course DR requires a known reference point. If you weren't so convinced navigation is impossible without a GPS you might learn how it works. jeffies, virtually every last pilot in the country with a valid license is laughing at you. "flying blind" is illegal, and has been for seven some decades, and for good reason. All pilots know that and know why. you have changed the definition of DR to that of "pilotage", as in going from one known landmark to the next. |
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"Wally" wrote in message ...
Joe wrote: Ah I see what your saying, sorry. Let me rephrase the question What about the other two questions - the ones where you ask for the course *to steer* and the speed *made good*? Do you mean the course and speed made good? yes. I guess it's a Texas thing. Us Texans were raised to think that if you want to do something you do it, no question about it. So when I say "you want" to steer a compass course of 080 thats what you steer. Sorry for your confusion. What Im looking for in the answer is your cmg and your smg. joe |
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Jaxie, all those pilots are laughing at your misunderstanding of navigation and
are thankful that you don't fly anymore! I'm also grateful that you don't sail whenever there is the smallest chance of fog - that eases my burden considerably! As for "putting my family at risk" you'll be happy to know that I travel with GPS (plus a spare) and Radar, and unlike you, actually know how to use them. However, I'm also prepared to cope with the loss of electronics, and when conditions are ripe for fog, I chose routes that are easier for DR navigation if the need arises. Claiming that safe navigation in restricted visibility is impossible is to claim that cruising, especially in the Northeast (or the Northwest) in the summer is impossible. But I guess for you it is impossible. Is this why you never tell us about any trips you've been on when you were actually in charge? It seems like the only trips you talk about is when you crewed for an "incompetent" skipper. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... yeah, 200,000 pilots in the country, and every last one of them is either laughing at you for your lack of skills and understanding, or shaking their heads at the danger you put yourself and your family so stew ped lee in. |
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JAXAshby wrote: over the knee obviously does not, so let's help out a bit. Main Entry: de·duce Pronunciation: di-'düs, dE-; chiefly British -'dyüs Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): de·duced; de·duc·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Latin deducere, literally, to lead away, from de- + ducere to lead —more at TOW Date: 15th century 1 : to determine by deduction; specifically : to infer from a general principle synonym see INFER - de·duc·ible /-'d(y)ü-s&-b&l/ adjective You gotta make up your mind, jax. You were talking about "dead reckoning" before, the term many use when employing time/direction/speed only. "deduced reckoning" applies when allowance is made for wind and current ..... something you say is impossible. Mayhaps you should go back to the books for some further study. otn |
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...... and your point is? The subject is "dead reckoning", "deduced
reckoning", "ded reckoning", not "fixes", or is this some random thought which just found it's way out of your brain. I fail to see how this relates to my post below or anything else, for that matter. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, **if** you have known references point **then** you are not deducing anything at all about where you are. why are you being such a dumb cluck? yeah, that's it. yesterday means tomorrow, green means frying pan and DR means whatever you want, today at 7:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time when posting as what the frick ever. Now, now, jax .... don't get yer spandex speedo in an uproar ..... simply stated, you just don't know enough about actual navigation to have the ability to carry on an intelligent discussion on the subject. BTW, next time you look up "dead reckoning", "ded reckoning", "deduced reckoning", read the whole definition. Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the possibilities ....... Tataaa otn |
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jeffies, what you proclaim as a safe practise has been illegal in the air for
seven some decades. now, I am fully aware that *YOU* believe *YOU* are above the laws of physics, but get your wife to explain it to you. Jaxie, all those pilots are laughing at your misunderstanding of navigation and are thankful that you don't fly anymore! I'm also grateful that you don't sail whenever there is the smallest chance of fog - that eases my burden considerably! As for "putting my family at risk" you'll be happy to know that I travel with GPS (plus a spare) and Radar, and unlike you, actually know how to use them. However, I'm also prepared to cope with the loss of electronics, and when conditions are ripe for fog, I chose routes that are easier for DR navigation if the need arises. Claiming that safe navigation in restricted visibility is impossible is to claim that cruising, especially in the Northeast (or the Northwest) in the summer is impossible. But I guess for you it is impossible. Is this why you never tell us about any trips you've been on when you were actually in charge? It seems like the only trips you talk about is when you crewed for an "incompetent" skipper. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... yeah, 200,000 pilots in the country, and every last one of them is either laughing at you for your lack of skills and understanding, or shaking their heads at the danger you put yourself and your family so stew ped lee in. |
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"dead" reckoning is NEVER dead on. It can't be. It is physically impossible.
even guessing for wind and current makes no difference. now, over the knee, *if* you -- like jeffies before you -- wish to change the definition to the term to include pilotage, well go ahead. At least you would be safer should you ever find yourself on the water. over the knee obviously does not, so let's help out a bit. Main Entry: de·duce Pronunciation: di-'düs, dE-; chiefly British -'dyüs Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): de·duced; de·duc·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Latin deducere, literally, to lead away, from de- + ducere to lead �more at TOW Date: 15th century 1 : to determine by deduction; specifically : to infer from a general principle synonym see INFER - de·duc·ible /-'d(y)ü-s&-b&l/ adjective You gotta make up your mind, jax. You were talking about "dead reckoning" before, the term many use when employing time/direction/speed only. "deduced reckoning" applies when allowance is made for wind and current .... something you say is impossible. Mayhaps you should go back to the books for some further study. otn |
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over the knee, you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with jeffies. did you
lose track of the world around you for a period of time? ...... and your point is? The subject is "dead reckoning", "deduced reckoning", "ded reckoning", not "fixes", or is this some random thought which just found it's way out of your brain. I fail to see how this relates to my post below or anything else, for that matter. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, **if** you have known references point **then** you are not deducing anything at all about where you are. why are you being such a dumb cluck? yeah, that's it. yesterday means tomorrow, green means frying pan and DR means whatever you want, today at 7:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time when posting as what the frick ever. Now, now, jax .... don't get yer spandex speedo in an uproar ..... simply stated, you just don't know enough about actual navigation to have the ability to carry on an intelligent discussion on the subject. BTW, next time you look up "dead reckoning", "ded reckoning", "deduced reckoning", read the whole definition. Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the possibilities ....... Tataaa otn |
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As per usual, a number of problems with this post.
1. It is in no way a response or related to my post. 2. You are wrong when you say "DR" is never dead on (but that's beyond your knowledge or experience). 3. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. Sheesh, you do ramble. otn JAXAshby wrote: "dead" reckoning is NEVER dead on. It can't be. It is physically impossible. even guessing for wind and current makes no difference. now, over the knee, *if* you -- like jeffies before you -- wish to change the definition to the term to include pilotage, well go ahead. At least you would be safer should you ever find yourself on the water. over the knee obviously does not, so let's help out a bit. Main Entry: de·duce Pronunciation: di-'düs, dE-; chiefly British -'dyüs Function: transitive verb Inflected Form(s): de·duced; de·duc·ing Etymology: Middle English, from Latin deducere, literally, to lead away, from de- + ducere to lead �more at TOW Date: 15th century 1 : to determine by deduction; specifically : to infer from a general principle synonym see INFER - de·duc·ible /-'d(y)ü-s&-b&l/ adjective You gotta make up your mind, jax. You were talking about "dead reckoning" before, the term many use when employing time/direction/speed only. "deduced reckoning" applies when allowance is made for wind and current .... something you say is impossible. Mayhaps you should go back to the books for some further study. otn |
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NO jax, I am not agreeing with you, I am responding to your post to me
..... a point you seem to be having trouble following. Right now, I'd say you've lost track of what you've said to who and who you are responding to about what ... but, a general state of confusion is considered normal for you. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with jeffies. did you lose track of the world around you for a period of time? ...... and your point is? The subject is "dead reckoning", "deduced reckoning", "ded reckoning", not "fixes", or is this some random thought which just found it's way out of your brain. I fail to see how this relates to my post below or anything else, for that matter. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, **if** you have known references point **then** you are not deducing anything at all about where you are. why are you being such a dumb cluck? yeah, that's it. yesterday means tomorrow, green means frying pan and DR means whatever you want, today at 7:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time when posting as what the frick ever. Now, now, jax .... don't get yer spandex speedo in an uproar ..... simply stated, you just don't know enough about actual navigation to have the ability to carry on an intelligent discussion on the subject. BTW, next time you look up "dead reckoning", "ded reckoning", "deduced reckoning", read the whole definition. Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the possibilities ....... Tataaa otn |
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It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that
aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing. However, I do recall that a number of pilots said your claim about aviation regs was faulty. Perhaps you could give a reference? No? I didn't think so. And what does a pilot do if they don't have GPS? Are you claiming its illegal for a pilot to make a prediction about their location based on heading and speed? You've been claiming that everyone is doing illegal, dangerous things, but you've never said exactly what is illegal or dangerous. All we know for sure is that you're the one who calls in Maydays for no reason, and is lost at Hatteras. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies, what you proclaim as a safe practise has been illegal in the air for seven some decades. now, I am fully aware that *YOU* believe *YOU* are above the laws of physics, but get your wife to explain it to you. Jaxie, all those pilots are laughing at your misunderstanding of navigation and are thankful that you don't fly anymore! I'm also grateful that you don't sail whenever there is the smallest chance of fog - that eases my burden considerably! As for "putting my family at risk" you'll be happy to know that I travel with GPS (plus a spare) and Radar, and unlike you, actually know how to use them. However, I'm also prepared to cope with the loss of electronics, and when conditions are ripe for fog, I chose routes that are easier for DR navigation if the need arises. Claiming that safe navigation in restricted visibility is impossible is to claim that cruising, especially in the Northeast (or the Northwest) in the summer is impossible. But I guess for you it is impossible. Is this why you never tell us about any trips you've been on when you were actually in charge? It seems like the only trips you talk about is when you crewed for an "incompetent" skipper. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... yeah, 200,000 pilots in the country, and every last one of them is either laughing at you for your lack of skills and understanding, or shaking their heads at the danger you put yourself and your family so stew ped lee in. |
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jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he
merely said something about known ladmarks. same same. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. |
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You are wrong when you say "DR" is never dead on (but that's beyond
your knowledge or experience). absolutely not. it is physically impossible. period. (except by random chance, but that defeats the definition). |
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maybe, over the knee, you don't know what reference points are, or what
constitutes a reference point. jeffies, doesn't/didn't. like Ragu, "It's in there". NO jax, I am not agreeing with you, I am responding to your post to me .... a point you seem to be having trouble following. Right now, I'd say you've lost track of what you've said to who and who you are responding to about what ... but, a general state of confusion is considered normal for you. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, you are agreeing with me and disagreeing with jeffies. did you lose track of the world around you for a period of time? ...... and your point is? The subject is "dead reckoning", "deduced reckoning", "ded reckoning", not "fixes", or is this some random thought which just found it's way out of your brain. I fail to see how this relates to my post below or anything else, for that matter. otn JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, **if** you have known references point **then** you are not deducing anything at all about where you are. why are you being such a dumb cluck? yeah, that's it. yesterday means tomorrow, green means frying pan and DR means whatever you want, today at 7:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time when posting as what the frick ever. Now, now, jax .... don't get yer spandex speedo in an uproar ..... simply stated, you just don't know enough about actual navigation to have the ability to carry on an intelligent discussion on the subject. BTW, next time you look up "dead reckoning", "ded reckoning", "deduced reckoning", read the whole definition. Although I doubt you'll be able to comprehend the possibilities ....... Tataaa otn |
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Are you claiming its illegal
for a pilot to make a prediction about their location based on heading and speed? I am saying it is absolutely illegal to fly blind with only heading and speed info. absolutely. And has been for seven some decades. |
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you're the one who calls in Maydays for no reason,
I have never called in a mayday, nor have heard anyone call in a Mayday. |
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is lost at Hatteras.
if you can't see the lights at night at Hatteras you don't know where the lights are at night at Hatteras. There is a reason those lights are there. |
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It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that
aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing. There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you how far above the ground you are. none. |
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"JAXAshby" wrote in message
... Are you claiming its illegal for a pilot to make a prediction about their location based on heading and speed? I am saying it is absolutely illegal to fly blind with only heading and speed info. absolutely. And has been for seven some decades. And what do you do if you lose your electronics? Get out and walk? |
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JAXAshby wrote: jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he merely said something about known ladmarks. same same. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. ..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to pawn it off as "someone else said". Lame attempt, try again. otn |
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JAXAshby wrote: over the knee, if you expand the definition to include gps charterplotters, anything is possible. same same if you expand the definition of breakfast eggs to include three bricks of 24-k gold, you would be rich. DR is speed vs time vs direction pointed, and your best guess as to where that puts you. that's it, nothing more. Some people believe that guessing as to current direction and strength and guessing as to boat drift due to wind speed and direction improves their best guess as to where they are, but it doesn't. Oh boy here we go again. Cheers |
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JAXAshby wrote: You are wrong when you say "DR" is never dead on (but that's beyond your knowledge or experience). absolutely not. it is physically impossible. period. (except by random chance, but that defeats the definition). ROFL. Jax, we all ready know you don't understand the terms used in "DR", or how it can be applied/used, and the possible variations in meaning that others may have for the term and it's use. How then could we expect you to understand that "DR" can be "dead on" in many cases, but your total lack of experience and low levels of comprehension put this possibility way beyond your ability to understand? otn |
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"Nav" wrote in message | Oh boy here we go again. Hey Man.... what do you mean by that statement???? Too confused to state that in Layman's terms and present a viable counter point??? CM |
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JAXAshby wrote: maybe, over the knee, you don't know what reference points are, or what constitutes a reference point. jeffies, doesn't/didn't. like Ragu, "It's in there". jax, you really,really do need help with "reading comprehension". You can't just take what someone writes and interpret it to suit your needs or point of view ..... go back and read what he said, then before you write something, take the time to think what it means. otn |
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JAXAshby wrote: you're the one who calls in Maydays for no reason, I have never called in a mayday, nor have heard anyone call in a Mayday. Phew Now here we have the biggest indication yet of jax's lack of experience ....never heard anyone call in a Mayday...... |
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JAXAshby wrote: It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing. There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you how far above the ground you are. none. Don't know too many planes that can stop in midair and hover till they figure things out....... (just for starters) otn |
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Joe wrote:
If you want to sail a course of 080, at a speed of 10 knots and you sail thru a current having an estimated set of 140 and a drift of two knots What would be your course and speed made good?. 089, 11.14 knots. If you want to sail a course of 095 through a current having a set of 170 and a drift of 2.5 knots, using a speed of 12 knots What would be your course and speed made good?. 106, 12.88 knots. You want to sail a course of 265 and a speed of 15 knots through a current having a set of 185 and a drift of 3 knots What would be your course and speed made good?. 254, 15.8 knots. -- Wally www.artbywally.com www.wally.myby.co.uk |
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No jaxie, I didn't mention "known ladmarks" and I wasn't referring to
"pilotage." Its very simple: any DR plot begins with a known reference point called a "fix." If you knew anything about DR you would understand that. I would guess that most pilots know what their starting point is - that's a reference point. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he merely said something about known ladmarks. same same. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. |
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I'll admit that there is a similarity between flying in the clouds and sailing
in the fog, if the only instrument you have is a compass. But to claim that there is "no qualitative difference between navigating" a plane and boat just shows you have no practical experience doing either. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing. There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you how far above the ground you are. none. |
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hope and pray.
btw, airplanes licensed to fly in blind conditions have multiple redundancies in their nav gear. Are you claiming its illegal for a pilot to make a prediction about their location based on heading and speed? I am saying it is absolutely illegal to fly blind with only heading and speed info. absolutely. And has been for seven some decades. And what do you do if you lose your electronics? Get out and walk? |
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huh?
It is the height of stupidity (and thus just at your level) to claim that aviation regulations have some relevance to sailing. There is absolutely no qualitative difference between navigating an airplane and navigating a boat, except the airplane also has an instrument to tell you how far above the ground you are. none. Don't know too many planes that can stop in midair and hover till they figure things out....... (just for starters) otn |
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I'll admit that there is a similarity between flying in the clouds and
sailing in the fog, if the only instrument you have is a compass. no kidding. |
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But to claim that there is "no qualitative difference between navigating" a
plane and boat just shows you have no practical experience doing either. quite the contrary. it shows I have done both. actually, in air nav you don't have to make as much allowance for winds, for the speed of the an airplane is many times the speed of the winds, for the aircraft flights under discussion here. |
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over the knee, jeffies brought it up as proof that DR was precise navigating,
not me. jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he merely said something about known ladmarks. same same. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. ..... and you, typically, took it out of context, and created a new argument, which was unrelated to the discussion at hand, and tried to pawn it off as "someone else said". Lame attempt, try again. otn |
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jeffies, you definitely said *you* know where *you* are because you have
reference points in DR. listen to me. you do NOT have reference points in DR. you ONLY have where you started (and you don't even know where that is once you have started), your speed through the medium and which direction mag North is. That's it. No jaxie, I didn't mention "known ladmarks" and I wasn't referring to "pilotage." Its very simple: any DR plot begins with a known reference point called a "fix." If you knew anything about DR you would understand that. I would guess that most pilots know what their starting point is - that's a reference point. "JAXAshby" wrote in message ... jeffies is not smart (without asking his wife) to use the word "pilotage". he merely said something about known ladmarks. same same. I didn't see anywhere, where Jeff introduced "pilotage" in a way to change the definition. |
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over the knee, it is physically impossible to know where you are without
outside references. if you doubt that, call any local college tomorrow morning, ask for the physics dept and ask the first TA who answers the phone. Don't be bothered that he or she is only maybe 19 years old. he or she knows the answer even if you don't. You are wrong when you say "DR" is never dead on (but that's beyond your knowledge or experience). absolutely not. it is physically impossible. period. (except by random chance, but that defeats the definition). ROFL. Jax, we all ready know you don't understand the terms used in "DR", or how it can be applied/used, and the possible variations in meaning that others may have for the term and it's use. How then could we expect you to understand that "DR" can be "dead on" in many cases, but your total lack of experience and low levels of comprehension put this possibility way beyond your ability to understand? otn |
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yeah, all that physics science stuff.
over the knee, if you expand the definition to include gps charterplotters, anything is possible. same same if you expand the definition of breakfast eggs to include three bricks of 24-k gold, you would be rich. DR is speed vs time vs direction pointed, and your best guess as to where that puts you. that's it, nothing more. Some people believe that guessing as to current direction and strength and guessing as to boat drift due to wind speed and direction improves their best guess as to where they are, but it doesn't. Oh boy here we go again. Cheers |
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