Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943 edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?


"Bart Senior" wrote in message
. ..
I agree I could have posed the question better.

However, if you don't like my questions, a smart guy like
you Jeff, is free to post some better ones!

Bring them on!

Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943 edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943 though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs (again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception) called
knockabouts.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Very good. Ten Loki point for you!

Chapman also says a sloop has the jib off the bowsprit, while a knockabout has
it on the forestay at the stem. A cutter has, in effect, both.


"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small
boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943
edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943
though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs
(again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception) called
knockabouts.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:

Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943 edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943 though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs (again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception) called
knockabouts.


Chappelle isn't too clear on that IIRC. But here's a direct
reference: Bill DUnne, "The McManuses of Boston" Woodenboat 112
June 1993.

"...The term came from the small racing sailboats built for
yachtsmen during the 1890s for "knocking about" Massachussets
Bay in all kinds of weather". The term was appropriated by Tom
McManus for his first knockabout Banks schooner Helen B. Thomas,
in which the bow was extended to where the bowsprit would have
reached, thus doing away with the widowmaker while still
maintaining the balance of the rig. About 1901.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

With my de Kerchove 2nd ed. sitting close at hand I found the following:

KNOCKABOUT. 1. A sailing yacht of simple sloop rig consisting of jib and
mainsail. The stay sets up on the stemhead. . . . usually keel boats though
some are centerboarders and could be handled very quickly. The original
knockabout rig was intended for small craft but it has developed and is now,
with some modifiations, used on boats of comparatively largesize, 40 to 100
feet. 2. In the USA applies in a general sense to sailing craft without
bowsprits. thus a fishing schooner so rigged is referred to as a knockabout
schooner.

KNOCKABOUT RIG. A style of rig evolved about 1900 with the object of
abolishing the bowsprit in most small craft. The jib is bent on a stay
which sets up on the stemhead. Used chiefly for yachts and fishing
schooners. Became popular in the New England cod fishing fleet 1905-1910.

No points, I looked it up . . .

M.


"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


DSK wrote:

Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.



But here's a question: I've heard the term "knockabout" as a type of
small boat
but never saw a formal definition. This morning I was reading a 1943
edition of
Chapman's - how do you think Charles defined them back then?

IIRC a "knockabout" was a boat with no bowsprit, a bit earlier than 1943
though. For
example a number of fishing schooners, without bowsprits, were described
as
"knockabouts." But that was 1920s and earlier, by 1943 then it probably
meant
something else. There were some early (1930s) marconi rigged one-designs
(again, no
bowsprit, but by this time that was the norm rather than the exception)
called
knockabouts.


Chappelle isn't too clear on that IIRC. But here's a direct
reference: Bill DUnne, "The McManuses of Boston" Woodenboat 112
June 1993.

"...The term came from the small racing sailboats built for
yachtsmen during the 1890s for "knocking about" Massachussets
Bay in all kinds of weather". The term was appropriated by Tom
McManus for his first knockabout Banks schooner Helen B. Thomas,
in which the bow was extended to where the bowsprit would have
reached, thus doing away with the widowmaker while still
maintaining the balance of the rig. About 1901.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.

I wasn't doubting that it would "work;" of course if you don't adjust the sails
when you turn on the engine they would be set properly when you killed the
engine (assuming everything stayed the same). My point is that you would adjust
the main to not flog, but you often can't do the same for the jib. All that was
going on is that the Dutchman was too lazy to douse the jib (as he should have)
and he came up with a plausible justification for leaving it luff.

Jeff,

The jib was luffing, but not when the the apparent
wind came aft when the engine was shut off.

Why should he douse the jib, when he knew the engine
was going to be shut off shortly? In fact, the jib was
just set,and just trimmed.

The man was thinking a step ahead. It all makes
perfect sense.

Someone had complained my questions were 1 pointers.
I figured I'd offer up a tougher one. If I made it easy,
it would have only been a one point question.

Jeff Morris wrote

"DSK" wrote
Jeff Morris wrote:

Sorry, Bart. I think your Dutch friend was yanking your chain!

No, what Bart described would work.

My point is that you would adjust
the main to not flog, but you often can't do the same for the jib. All
that was
going on is that the Dutchman was too lazy to douse the jib (as he should
have)
and he came up with a plausible justification for leaving it luff.