Flying Tadpole wrote:


Nav wrote:

Flying Tadpole wrote:


OzOne wrote:


On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:


On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:



I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.

Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!


I suspect that it would take some balls-up to begin with: it's
for survival conditions, eg in a SydneyHobart weather bomb, and
any sane centreboarder would either have been close to shelter or
heading north I would have thought. This is why i don't see Lady
Kate as a large-ocean-crosser. :^|

Anyway, never having been in survival conditions:


Then again pulling it partially up would work.

It does. This I've done on beats in aprticularly bad chop and


30knot winds on the Murray Lakes (remember, no wave5') to stop tripping and knocking down. But in those conditions, the hard chine to leeward is dug right in (and can be dug harder if the traveller is brought up a bit) so leeway isn't too bad at all.


But the thought of slithering sideways on a breaking wave in a
storm off Wedge Island just doesn't appeal, somehow.


That'll be Jesus talking to you...



...what would Jesus do...


Call Mommy?

Cheers

OzOne wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:28:18 +1200, Nav
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:


On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:44:50 +1200, Nav
scribbled thusly:



What do tugs do on the Murray Lakes?

Cheers


Tug stuff, what else!

Jeez, I thought you were smart....


You did? What stuff?


Stuff that needs to be tugged!


Stop tugging your plonker and answer the question!

Cheers

The chine in question is down wave from the breaking lip.

Cheers

Flying Tadpole wrote:


Nav wrote:

OzOne wrote:


On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:


On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:



I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.


Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!


Then again pulling it partially up would work.



I'd suggest a bolger box design will likely trip over the chine anyway
caught broadside so a little bit of plate down won't make much
difference and certainly help keep some direction...



I'd suggest you're suggesting partly incorrectly. The deep-dug
chine is probably only drawing a couple of feet, bit more, at
most, ie very near surface and in the water (breaking wave) which
is actually moving bodily, so there's not going to be much trip.
The full board OTOH would be drawing ?5 feet or so, with the
potential dire consequences that Oz originally raised, and in
relatively stationary water, so readily trippable. A bit of board
down ends up like the chine, a non-tripper (or not much) because
it's in the surface, moving water. Yes, it'll help the direction
but everything will still slither away from the breaking wave
rather than knock over and break the board.

I have tripped Lady Kate badly, in the early days, but in that
case hit a mudbank with the board fully down and hard on the
wind. No structural damage. Lots of cleanup. I don't plan to do
it again.

OzOne wrote:

On Wed, 30 Jun 2004 11:20:40 +1200, Nav
scribbled thusly:

Stop tugging your plonker and answer the question!

Cheers


Hey, I've answered it.
Tugs are for tugging stuff around that needs to be tugged.

What else would you do with a tug?



Ask Doug!

Cheers

MC said: ...the breaking lip.

You broke your lip?

--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.712 / Virus Database: 468 - Release Date: 6/27/2004

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
wrote:



OzOne wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.

I read you should only pull the centerboard up in those conditions if
it isn't ballasted or part of the ballest. (ie: Iron centerboard).
Mark E. Williams

Well, yes, but if it's not in the water then the boat is planing
or free-falling. Whatever else happens, the chine won't trip
much. MC, these are extreme shoaldraft boats. I'd hate to put
it to the test. The designer is pretty sure a properly built
Micro could survive a 30-40ft freefall and still be floatable
afterwards, not matchsticks, but it's highly unlikely the pea
inside the pod would get by without real serious injury! ANd I
don't intend to put it to the test myself.

Nav wrote:

The chine in question is down wave from the breaking lip.

Cheers

Flying Tadpole wrote:


Nav wrote:

OzOne wrote:


On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:


On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:



I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.


Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!


Then again pulling it partially up would work.



I'd suggest a bolger box design will likely trip over the chine anyway
caught broadside so a little bit of plate down won't make much
difference and certainly help keep some direction...



I'd suggest you're suggesting partly incorrectly. The deep-dug
chine is probably only drawing a couple of feet, bit more, at
most, ie very near surface and in the water (breaking wave) which
is actually moving bodily, so there's not going to be much trip.
The full board OTOH would be drawing ?5 feet or so, with the
potential dire consequences that Oz originally raised, and in
relatively stationary water, so readily trippable. A bit of board
down ends up like the chine, a non-tripper (or not much) because
it's in the surface, moving water. Yes, it'll help the direction
but everything will still slither away from the breaking wave
rather than knock over and break the board.

I have tripped Lady Kate badly, in the early days, but in that
case hit a mudbank with the board fully down and hard on the
wind. No structural damage. Lots of cleanup. I don't plan to do
it again.


--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

"Maynard G. Krebbs" wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
wrote:



OzOne wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.

I read you should only pull the centerboard up in those conditions if
it isn't ballasted or part of the ballest. (ie: Iron centerboard).
Mark E. Williams

OK, I tend to forget the modern trailer sailer--the baots I'm
referring to all run ballast, be it water, lead or concrete,
either inside (fastened) or outside as a shoe or plate on the
haul bottom. The centerboards, bilgeboards or for that matter
leeboards are simply fins: they do not form part of the ballast
other than incidentally (they themselves might be ballasted to
neutral or slightly negative buoyancy, and when extended they do
make a minor contribution to the righting arm--and a tiny
contribution to the capsize side of that equation when up). This
is quite different form trailerables with a hunk of lead on the
bottom of the daggerboard/centerboard, without which the
trailerable wil knock down when breathed at.

So anyone with a centreboard that's also the primary
ballast---what are you doing outside in those conditions????
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Not lip. Rib and back.

Cheers

katysails wrote:

MC said: ...the breaking lip.

You broke your lip?

A 40 free fall? Ever seen a real drop test -what height did they limit
it to?


Cheers

Flying Tadpole wrote:

Well, yes, but if it's not in the water then the boat is planing
or free-falling. Whatever else happens, the chine won't trip
much. MC, these are extreme shoaldraft boats. I'd hate to put
it to the test. The designer is pretty sure a properly built
Micro could survive a 30-40ft freefall and still be floatable
afterwards, not matchsticks, but it's highly unlikely the pea
inside the pod would get by without real serious injury! ANd I
don't intend to put it to the test myself.

Nav wrote:

The chine in question is down wave from the breaking lip.

Cheers

Flying Tadpole wrote:


Nav wrote:


OzOne wrote:



On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:




OzOne wrote:



On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:




I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.


Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!


Then again pulling it partially up would work.



I'd suggest a bolger box design will likely trip over the chine anyway
caught broadside so a little bit of plate down won't make much
difference and certainly help keep some direction...



I'd suggest you're suggesting partly incorrectly. The deep-dug
chine is probably only drawing a couple of feet, bit more, at
most, ie very near surface and in the water (breaking wave) which
is actually moving bodily, so there's not going to be much trip.
The full board OTOH would be drawing ?5 feet or so, with the
potential dire consequences that Oz originally raised, and in
relatively stationary water, so readily trippable. A bit of board
down ends up like the chine, a non-tripper (or not much) because
it's in the surface, moving water. Yes, it'll help the direction
but everything will still slither away from the breaking wave
rather than knock over and break the board.

I have tripped Lady Kate badly, in the early days, but in that
case hit a mudbank with the board fully down and hard on the
wind. No structural damage. Lots of cleanup. I don't plan to do
it again.