OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:

I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.

Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!

I suspect that it would take some balls-up to begin with: it's
for survival conditions, eg in a SydneyHobart weather bomb, and
any sane centreboarder would either have been close to shelter or
heading north I would have thought. This is why i don't see Lady
Kate as a large-ocean-crosser. :^|

Anyway, never having been in survival conditions:
Then again pulling it partially up would work.
It does. This I've done on beats in aprticularly bad chop and
30knot winds on the Murray Lakes (remember, no wave5') to stop tripping and knocking down. But in those conditions, the hard chine to leeward is dug right in (and can be dug harder if the traveller is brought up a bit) so leeway isn't too bad at all.

But the thought of slithering sideways on a breaking wave in a
storm off Wedge Island just doesn't appeal, somehow.

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Scotty announced;
There is a stinkpotter named 'Frankly my dear'' in the Balt. area. Stupid
name, eh?

Not as stupid as most motorboat names....
--
katysails
s/v Chanteuse
Kirie Elite 32
http://katysails.tripod.com

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax
and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein



---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.690 / Virus Database: 451 - Release Date: 5/22/2004

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:42:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:

snerp This is why i don't see Lady
Kate as a large-ocean-crosser. :^|

Close in the spa pool in the bow and you'd be much better equipped.
Hell maybe even a drop in gate for hen you get in trouble.


The drop-in gate is designed, not yet built--no point until the
Murray Mouth opens. And a folding hatch over the bow well,
although the well remains free draining. Otherwise the ground
tackle would end up getting washed out....

The open bow is just too convenient on the lakes!

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:12:48 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 19:42:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:

snerp This is why i don't see Lady
Kate as a large-ocean-crosser. :^|

Close in the spa pool in the bow and you'd be much better equipped.
Hell maybe even a drop in gate for hen you get in trouble.


The drop-in gate is designed, not yet built--no point until the
Murray Mouth opens. And a folding hatch over the bow well,
although the well remains free draining. Otherwise the ground
tackle would end up getting washed out....

OK, I sorta thought that there would be one on the drawing board.

It's a pretty easy fix: there are heavy scantlings vertically at
the bow, so few gudgeons and ss rod together with an
appropriately braced ply rectangle and voila! a combined closed
bow and boarding plank...

The open bow is just too convenient on the lakes!

Oh yeah, great convenience.....and a great convenience too I guess :-)


Both. Remember, we beach this craft (or reed it) None of these
undignified scrambles up and down high sides. And the other
convenience also means that if you fall overboard, you've the
whole length of the boat to scramble back, or alternatively kill
you then and there. Sooo much better than falling of the stern
while contemplating...

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 20:28:17 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:

Both. Remember, we beach this craft (or reed it) None of these
undignified scrambles up and down high sides. And the other
convenience also means that if you fall overboard, you've the
whole length of the boat to scramble back, or alternatively kill
you then and there. Sooo much better than falling of the stern
while contemplating...

You know Taddy, I really do have a soft spot for your boats...I just
can't see myself in one.

....well, no...you'd have to be beside yourself to be able to do
that...

--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

(Frank)scribbled thusly:
#1 - CENTERBOARDS COMPROMISE SEAWORTHINESS

OzOne wrote:
Fact, they are not as substantial and usually carry no ballast low.

Well, that's not intrinsic to having a centerboard. I think that to some extent,
shoal draft can be a compromise against seaworthiness, but there are plenty of
centerboarders fit to cross oceans and keel boats that are not.



#2 - THE LOWER THE FREEBOARD THE FASTER THE SAILBOAT

OzOne wrote:
Fact, given all other is equal...it's called windage

Also it reduces weight.

But hey, if one is dumb enough to think that the Mac26X/M is truly a
revolutionary & wonderful yacht, then one is probably not a stickler for the
laws of physics...


#3 - A FAST SAILBOAT CAN NOT ALSO MOTOR FAST

OzOne wrote:
Correct. an easily driven boat under sail will usually motor very
well. A mac requires more horsepower than any 26'sailboat that I know.

And it also goes a tad faster than other more conventional sailboats (giving it
the title as a curtesy). But it is also a pig at all speeds, using more power,
hard to steer, and leaving a big wake. Our friends that had them soon got tired
of motoring around and having to cut to idle any time the wake was an issue.


#4 - OCEAN CRUISING SAILBOATS MUST BE LARGER THAN 60 FEET
Now this is stupidity and you know it.

Yeah but it makes him feel smart.


#5 - KEELED SAILBOATS ARE THE MOST SEAWORTHY OCEAN CRUISERS

OzOne wrote:
Fact. Proven over many years of cruising.

Yeah, it's difficult to put to sea at all without a keel... even coracles &
umiaks have a main longitudinal girder even though they are called something
else...



#6 WATER BALLAST IS INFERIOR TO OTHER BALLAST

OzOne wrote:
Water ballast has the same mass as the surrounding water, must be
carried in tanks, sloshes around and is internal.
It is very useful when designing a boat that will be travelling long
distances on one leg hence the use on Volvo 60 and the like.
It is used on the mac to allow conversion to a powerboat.

Obviously #6 is the product of an inferiority complex. Water ballast is neither
inferior nor superior to other types of ballast, except when regarded for
specific uses. A Mac26X/M couldn't be trailered or motored on semi-plane if not
for water ballast. We trailered & sailed a water ballast boat for years. Worked
well *for that purpose*. It also works very well for the purpose Oz1 mentions
(btw it doesn't slosh if the tanks are designed & built properly).



#7 A KEELED SAIL BOAT WILL POINT INTO THE WIND BETTER THAN A CENTER BOARDER

OzOne wrote:
Usually, the keel is hyrdodynamically better than the centreboard in
most cases. Particularly with respect t the Mac.

Actually the older Mac26 with the daggerboard pointed very well, and had quite
respectable performance to windward. Not to stay with an IACC boat of course


#8 A TALL RIDGED MAST IS BETTER THAN A SHORT BENDING MAST

What is a "ridged" mast??

#9 MAC26X BOAT OWNERS ARE NOT INTERESTED IN RACING

OzOne wrote:
Hell, people race lawnmowers and golf buggies......the Mac fits nicely
into this group.....do they have buggies at discount golf courses?

Actually there are very very few Mac26X/M that race, AFAIK only two or three on
the US east coast have applied for ratings, and those were all dealers. The
Mac26X/M rating usually quoted was assigned to a boat that was raced by a
dealer, a good racing skipper, who put trapezes on the boat and sailed it
without ballast. Hardly a reflection of the boat in normal trim with an
'average' Mac skipper.

No one-design fleets either.


#10 MAC26X BOATS ARE SPARTAN

OzOne wrote:
Depends on whether you consider the inside of an empty fridge
spartan.......

I've never thought of any type of fiberglass sailboat as being particularly
Hellenic...


#11 MAC26X BOATS ARE NOT FOR OCEAN PASSAGES

OzOne wrote:
Anythings possible.....depends on how close you are to a death wish.

Yeah... the bits & pieces will wash up somewhere, thus completing your passage!




All these myths are scotched here

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/murrelet.htm

No self-respecting scotch would be caught near this tripe & drivel. Maybe you
have ginned or vodka'd , but damn sure not scotched.



Come on alt.sailing.asa'ers, let's discuss!

OK, we did. Now what?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

I know a fellow with a boat named:

Mother Tucker

Periodically someone takes a piece of tape and
makes the T into an F

katysails wrote

Not as stupid as most motorboat names....

What do tugs do on the Murray Lakes?

Cheers

Flying Tadpole wrote:

Gives you fair warning. Locally we had tugs with names like
"Tusker".

FT

Scott Vernon wrote:

There is a stinkpotter named 'Frankly my dear'' in the Balt. area. Stupid
name, eh?

Scotty

"Flying Tadpole" wrote in message
...


Seahag wrote:

"Flying Tadpole" wrote:

Frank wrote:

#1 - CENTERBOARDS COMPROMISE SEAWORTHINESS
#2 - THE LOWER THE FREEBOARD THE FASTER THE SAILBOAT
#3 - A FAST SAILBOAT CAN NOT ALSO MOTOR FAST
#4 - OCEAN CRUISING SAILBOATS MUST BE LARGER THAN 60 FEET
#5 - KEELED SAILBOATS ARE THE MOST SEAWORTHY OCEAN CRUISERS
#6 WATER BALLAST IS INFERIOR TO OTHER BALLAST
#7 A KEELED SAIL BOAT WILL POINT INTO THE WIND BETTER THAN A CENTER

BOARDER

#8 A TALL RIDGED MAST IS BETTER THAN A SHORT BENDING MAST
#9 MAC26X BOAT OWNERS ARE NOT INTERESTED IN RACING
#10 MAC26X BOATS ARE SPARTAN
#11 MAC26X BOATS ARE NOT FOR OCEAN PASSAGES

All these myths are scotched here

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/murrelet.htm

Come on alt.sailing.asa'ers, let's discuss!

You mean, let's ALL be Frank?
--
Flying Tadpole

No, I'm Frank.

Seahag

"Well Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn...."
--
Flying Tadpole

-------------------------
Break Away, Sail Away and putz away
now at http://music.download.com/internetopera

Flying Tadpole wrote:


Nav wrote:

Flying Tadpole wrote:


OzOne wrote:


On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:



I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.



And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.

God talks to you?


Yes, but not recently.

That'll be because you've not been off shore recently?

Cheers

OzOne wrote:

On Tue, 29 Jun 2004 10:45:12 +0930, Flying Tadpole
scribbled thusly:



OzOne wrote:

On Mon, 28 Jun 2004 17:05:18 -0700, "Jonathan Ganz"
scribbled thusly:


I'm sorry... I was thinking catamaran/trimaran....

On the multis when it gets really tough, the centreboard/boards are
pulled up to save them, allow the boat to be pushed sideways and to
stop it tripping over the boards.


And indeed, I was always told, by my designer among others, that
that is also what should be done in centreboarders in those
conditions.


Whhhh oooeeee Baby...now that would take some balls!


Then again pulling it partially up would work.



I'd suggest a bolger box design will likely trip over the chine anyway
caught broadside so a little bit of plate down won't make much
difference and certainly help keep some direction...

Cheers