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Yes Jax,
The sail works because it is curved. It provides the force to move the boat on a Reach and on a Close Haul. Since you don't know why and are denying the statements you've made in replies.Both about the curve and force vectors, it is time for enlightenment. I'll try. I was just made aware of the Newtonian Theory this past season. This discussion group made me aware of it and I have brought into it. So, I'm not pretending to be an expert BUT I damn well know why the curve on the Lee side is necessary, I've done some studying; Newton said for every ACTION there is created an EQUAL and OPPOSITE REACTION. So that Action on the lee side of the Sail causes the air to go in a leeward motion. This is caused by the CURVE in the sail ( On a wing it would be the curved section of the airfoil) This Leeward action of the air away from the Lee side of the sail creates a need for air on the Lee side of the sail. This need is supplied by the relative stationary air, behind the deflected air caused by the curve on the leading edge of the curved sail. This air rushes against the Lee side of the after section of the curve sail and slides off the leech of the sail. This Force of Air is the ACTION, Newton Law needed to create the REACTION from the air on windward side of the sail. There is another action that takes place with the air sliding off the Leech. It is called the COANDER EFFECT. This is caused by the surface tension on the boundary layers causing the air sliding backward to turn and aid the reaction force Now, the curve of the Sail is necessary to keep the air in contact with the sail (Boundary flow) until we want it to separate with the minimum turbulence to allow the forward air to slide down and over the after part of the sail My apologise to all you informed sailors for my crude attempt to explain Newton's Law (F=ma). To all but Jax who had his chance I"ll need a:"DRINK TO THAT" for venturing where Angels fear to thread Ole Thom |
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old man, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. in your case, you have
damned little knowledge. now, you are saying WHAT? that an airfoil wouldn't work if both sides of it are curved, and curved in the same direction? dude, maybe you might spend some time at any local airport, unless of course you continue to believe that trash you spewed before that a verticle surface acts under different air forces than a horizontal surface. old man, give it up. you told one and all of your utter ignorance when you said, I was just made aware of the Newtonian Theory [snip the rest of thomie's beer hall meanderings] |
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Jax,
You seem to be afraid to talk in terms of SAILING! You go to the local airport. I have all the I have to see at the Harbor. YOU SHOULD GO THERE. You just might learn something about SAILING. Jax, you can't seem to complete the transition of the aircraft wing to that of a flexible sail using Newton's Laws of Motion. You can't seem to remember that it was YOU that turned me onto Newton theory. It is a crying shame that you don't seem to have the ability to convert the theory into practical usage. Ole Thom |
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May be there is no such thing as a straight line. After all, space is
curved. Cheers JAXAshby wrote: You also know that "Chord" is used as a measurement in Airfoil dimensions. incredible that the olde fart thinks a curved line is straight. |
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Nav;
That was Jax. I said a Chord was a straight line that touched a curve at tow places and sometimes used in airfoil design. He couldn't answer the question and he had to invent something that he could knock. Pay no attention when he is pinned, he'll write a reply to his own lie. Something like Simple Sieman.(Puts in his thumb and pulls out a plum and says; "What a good boy am I!"). Ole Thom P/S A "CHORD" is used in a Airfoil to measure the leading edge to the trailing edge. That is for Jax's benifit not yours |
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old man, you keep trying to tell us that air flowing over a verticle surface is
somehow different in its reaction to the surface than air flowing over a horizontal surface. Are ever have you been drinking/smoking/chewing? Jax, You seem to be afraid to talk in terms of SAILING! You go to the local airport. I have all the I have to see at the Harbor. YOU SHOULD GO THERE. You just might learn something about SAILING. Jax, you can't seem to complete the transition of the aircraft wing to that of a flexible sail using Newton's Laws of Motion. You can't seem to remember that it was YOU that turned me onto Newton theory. It is a crying shame that you don't seem to have the ability to convert the theory into practical usage. Ole Thom |
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May be there is no such thing as a straight line. After all, space is
curved. Cheers only in some universes. |
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I said a Chord was a straight line that touched a curve at
tow places and sometimes used in airfoil design. sometimes, old man?? Ole Thom P/S A "CHORD" is used in a Airfoil to measure the leading edge to the trailing edge. That is for Jax's benifit not yours old man, that is what I said from the beginning. maybe you were too zonked out to recall you said a chord is a curved line, maybe you were still to zonked out to remember that I posted a direct definition of chord, and maybe STILL to zonked out to recall any of that now. |
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Jax;
You're having a very hard time remembering all your lies. They're all just smoke anyway. You still haven't answered, THE QUESTION. How do you trim YOUR SAILS for Max Efficiency for Newton's Laws? I answered the main part of the question. I'm leaving the part of Trim for you. I'll not answer for you. I really don't think you know what to look for but, it's all yours. Prove me wrong. Tell us, one and all, How to trim for Close Haul, Close Reach, Broad Reach and Down Wind. I really thought you let this post die. I did. It seems you have more lies to tell but no answers. Have you found something that tells you what to look for as you trim? Trim a Sail on a Sail Powered Vessel. Don't tell us about a SAIL with one Curved Side. We don't need to know about Ground Effect on a Sailboat. A sailor isn't really concerned with Downdraft or Updraft. We don't have Flaps or Props or Jets. A Sailor has Halyards, Outhauls, Sheets, Sheeting Angles, Cunninghams, Vangs, Back stay adjustments, Forestay tension, Barbar hauls. These are the main adjustments. I won't ask you about Jumper stays or Jack stays Tells us just how you use and set them for different wind strengths and directions? I know you must have some idea about their use. I know I've given you enough time to research their use. Tell us, Oh Wise One? Jax, I'm finished with this Post. You've been Busted to Pieces. I have nothing more to prove with you. You have had enough time to answer the original Question. ANSWER IT! You might save some of your dignity. I dought it. I've already released you, Little Fishy, stay away from the Hook! Ole Thom |
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Jax, I'm finished with this Post.
it is about damned time, old man. you hve been incoherent from the start. |
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How do you trim YOUR SAILS
for Max Efficiency for Newton's Laws? let me ask you a question, old man. are you REALLY saying that trimming is sails is different if one believes in "bournulli" (as you do) as compared to "Newton's Laws" (sic), or Quantum Theory, or Unified Theory? if *that* is what you are asking old man, the answer is "trim the sails until you are going as fast as you wish to go". |
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I really thought
no, you did not. |
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Don't tell us about a SAIL with one Curved Side.
old man, my comment about a sail "curved on one side" was intended to mock *you*. it appears you still don't understand that. old man, let me give you a hint. sails are curved on BOTH sides. think about it for a few weeks. |
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We don't need to know
about Ground Effect on a Sailboat. A sailor isn't really concerned with Downdraft or Updraft. We don't have Flaps or Props or Jets. whatever are you babbling about? *that* is the reason you think air movement reacts differently to a verticle surface than it does to a horizontal surface?? geesh, old man, air flow doesn't know or care. old man continues with more tripe thusly: A Sailor has Halyards, Outhauls, Sheets, Sheeting Angles, Cunninghams, Vangs, Back stay adjustments, Forestay tension, Barbar hauls. |
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Yes Jax;
A Chord is Sometimes used in designing an Airfoil. Poor, poor Jax. A perfect example of a little Knowledge being Dangerous. For sure Jax has; "A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE" It seem damn little knowledge. Jax, get your mind off the image of a Wing! A Chord is use in Airfoils continually in a Sail without it being a design ingredient. It is the result of and adjustment. A Chord in a Sail is the result of ajustment or wind strength Even you admitted it became "Larger" when flaps were deployed. You really aren't sure about that. but the resultant chord varied. It is more of measurement than a design. There are Airfoil sections in Car roof lines, Building section, Locomotors,etc. They are also found in wings. Ole Thom |
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A Chord is Sometimes used in designing an Airfoil.
just sometimes, eh? you mean sometimes an Airfoil (sic) has no chord? I guess I didn't know that. WOW!! the things one can learn on the Internet!!! |
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A Chord is use in Airfoils
continually in a Sail without it being a design ingredient. really? you mean an Airfoil (sic) or Sail (sic) can be designed with no consideration whatsoever as to chord? I guess I didn't know that. WOW!!! The things you can learn on the Internet!! |
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A Chord in a Sail is the result of ajustment
or wind strength Really? Without pulling the mast closer to the clew? Without stretching the outhaul? Without compressing the boom? WOW!! The things you can learn on the Internet!! |
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Even you admitted it became "Larger" when flaps were
deployed. You really aren't sure about that. but the resultant chord varied. Really, old man? And just how does deploying the ***flaps*** make the chord larger? Deploying the flaps actually makes the chord *less* because the flaps pivot down and towards the front of the wing. old man, you are still confusing "chord" with "curve". Tain't the same thing at all. |
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It is more of measurement than a design.
old man, listen up. "chord' *IS* a measurement, the distance ---- between the leading edge of the wing and the trailing edge of the wing ----. The design consideration is HOW LONG to make the chord. |
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Splendid, Thom! What a wonderful roamin' candle you've just set
off! -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera Thom Stewart wrote: Jax; You're having a very hard time remembering all your lies. They're all just smoke anyway. You still haven't answered, THE QUESTION. How do you trim YOUR SAILS for Max Efficiency for Newton's Laws? I answered the main part of the question. I'm leaving the part of Trim for you. I'll not answer for you. I really don't think you know what to look for but, it's all yours. Prove me wrong. Tell us, one and all, How to trim for Close Haul, Close Reach, Broad Reach and Down Wind. I really thought you let this post die. I did. It seems you have more lies to tell but no answers. Have you found something that tells you what to look for as you trim? Trim a Sail on a Sail Powered Vessel. Don't tell us about a SAIL with one Curved Side. We don't need to know about Ground Effect on a Sailboat. A sailor isn't really concerned with Downdraft or Updraft. We don't have Flaps or Props or Jets. A Sailor has Halyards, Outhauls, Sheets, Sheeting Angles, Cunninghams, Vangs, Back stay adjustments, Forestay tension, Barbar hauls. These are the main adjustments. I won't ask you about Jumper stays or Jack stays Tells us just how you use and set them for different wind strengths and directions? I know you must have some idea about their use. I know I've given you enough time to research their use. Tell us, Oh Wise One? Jax, I'm finished with this Post. You've been Busted to Pieces. I have nothing more to prove with you. You have had enough time to answer the original Question. ANSWER IT! You might save some of your dignity. I dought it. I've already released you, Little Fishy, stay away from the Hook! Ole Thom |
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Not just a roamin' candle, but an off-centre catherine wheel too!
This is an amazing display you're creating for us, Thom. Though I do hope the combination of Jax exploding and foaming at the same time doesn't do too much damage to his keyboard... -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera Thom Stewart wrote: Yes Jax; A Chord is Sometimes used in designing an Airfoil. Poor, poor Jax. A perfect example of a little Knowledge being Dangerous. For sure Jax has; "A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE" It seem damn little knowledge. Jax, get your mind off the image of a Wing! A Chord is use in Airfoils continually in a Sail without it being a design ingredient. It is the result of and adjustment. A Chord in a Sail is the result of ajustment or wind strength Even you admitted it became "Larger" when flaps were deployed. You really aren't sure about that. but the resultant chord varied. It is more of measurement than a design. There are Airfoil sections in Car roof lines, Building section, Locomotors,etc. They are also found in wings. Ole Thom |
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oxxy, bragging about his mental condition, tells us:
I welcome you to crackerbox palace |
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|
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It's the fooaaaaaam that attracts a Tadpole, the
fffoooooooooaaaammmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? From: Flying Tadpole [snip] -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy?
It's the fooaaaaaam that attracts a Tadpole, the fffoooooooooaaaammmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? From: Flying Tadpole [snip] -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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Aaaiiiiiiiieee! Now his foaming's become a Pavlovian reflex! No
conscious thought involved! Auto response! Fffoooooaaaaaaammmmm! Fffffffffffoooooooooaaaaaaaammmmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? It's the fooaaaaaam that attracts a Tadpole, the fffoooooooooaaaammmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? From: Flying Tadpole [snip] -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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Aaaiiiiiiiieee! Now his foaming's become a Pavlovian reflex! No
conscious thought involved! Auto response! Fffoooooaaaaaaammmmm! Fffffffffffoooooooooaaaaaaaammmmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? It's the fooaaaaaam that attracts a Tadpole, the fffoooooooooaaaammmm! JAXAshby wrote: little frog, you are one sick puppy. you live in the same crackerbox as oxxy? From: Flying Tadpole [snip] -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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Tad,
Jax is usually only dangerous to himself with a little knowledge and maybe some who might take him seriously. He is like the student that is so sure that the chemical symbol for water is (HIJKLMNO.) He knows that it's correct because his teacher TOLD HIM that the symbol was (H to O) for water and the teacher knows Ole Thom |
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Jax,
Think of your Sail laying flat on the Sail Loft's floor. Do you have that picture, in your (snic) mind? Now with the sail, laying perfectly flat, tell me and the ASA group where you measure the "CHORD"? Jump little fish, I just wiggled the line. Ole Thom |
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[sounds in background of SERIOUS guffowing]
Tad, Jax is usually only dangerous to himself with a little knowledge and maybe some who might take him seriously. He is like the student that is so sure that the chemical symbol for water is (HIJKLMNO.) He knows that it's correct because his teacher TOLD HIM that the symbol was (H to O) for water and the teacher knows Ole Thom |
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from the dictionary, old man, something back in junior high school and you have
yet to learn. chord2 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kôrd, krd) n. A line segment that joins two points on a curve. A straight line connecting the leading and trailing edges of an airfoil. Jax, Think of your Sail laying flat on the Sail Loft's floor. Do you have that picture, in your (snic) mind? Now with the sail, laying perfectly flat, tell me and the ASA group where you measure the "CHORD"? Jump little fish, I just wiggled the line. Ole Thom |
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OZ asked: What sort of flying critter is the Guffo or is it a Guff?
Are they protected? Only from themselves.... -- katysails s/v Chanteuse Kirie Elite 32 http://katysails.tripod.com "Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." - Robert A. Heinlein |
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katysails wrote: OZ asked: What sort of flying critter is the Guffo or is it a Guff? Are they protected? Only from themselves.... Can't be. If that were the case, their keepers would ensure they weren't exposed to ridicule... -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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OzOne wrote: On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 12:57:34 +0930, Flying Tadpole scribbled thusly: katysails wrote: OZ asked: What sort of flying critter is the Guffo or is it a Guff? Are they protected? Only from themselves.... Can't be. If that were the case, their keepers would ensure they weren't exposed to ridicule... Nor allowed them to fly around in the heads of crazies like Jocks. ??? I thought the Guffo _was_ Jocks. -- Flying Tadpole ------------------------- Faint echoes, sometimes inaudible, of the newsgroup's glorious past are downloadable at http://music.download.com/internetopera |
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And No Jax,
While you are in a good mood and properly set up. You have the definition of the "Chord" I asked you to locate the "Chord" on the flat Sail. Now, remembering YOUR DEFINITION, if you drew a line from the Peak of the sail to the bottom Leech corner; Wouldn't that be a "CHORD" for the curve of the ROACH?? (Jump little fish, you have been hooked again!) Now, draw another line from the Peak to the Tack corner at the Boom. That straight line, or CHORD would show the curve in the Tack, which will produce the Belly in the sail. ( On both sides ;^) I"m pulling you in Little Fish for my catch and release ) So, now Jax we have two "CHORDS" and yet no straight line from the leading edge to the trailing edge (Pass me the net while I land this Little Fish (G)!) Jax, when we run the sail up the Mast or the Fore Stay, the curve in the leading edge becomes straight and the excess forms a curve in both sides of the sail, which when a delta P is created will take the shape of an Airfoil. This my friend can be MEASURED by a straight line from the Leading edge (TACK) to the Trailing edge (LEECH) (Hand me the pliers so I can turn "Little Fishy" loose!) I'll see you again "LITTLE FISH" if you want to talk Effects of TRIMMING for Newton's Laws of Motion. If not, So be it!! Ole Thom |
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the one who so loudly proclaims to be a crackerbox asks what appear to be to
him a funny: Guffowing? What sort of flying critter is the Guffo or is it a Guff? Are they protected? Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
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from the proud crackerbox denizen:
This from Mr Guffowing.... Bwaaahaahahhahahahahahhahahahaaaa! Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
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old man, you have been over-served way too many times. you are missing the
term, and it doesn't appear you even are capable of knowing that. You have the definition of the "Chord" I asked you to locate the "Chord" on the flat Sail. Now, remembering YOUR DEFINITION, if you drew a line from the Peak of the sail to the bottom Leech corner; Wouldn't that be a "CHORD" for the curve of the ROACH?? (Jump little fish, you have been hooked again!) Now, draw another line from the Peak to the Tack corner at the Boom. That straight line, or CHORD would show the curve in the Tack, which will produce the Belly in the sail. ( On both sides ;^) I"m pulling you in Little Fish for my catch and release ) So, now Jax we have two "CHORDS" and yet no straight line from the leading edge to the trailing edge (Pass me the net while I land this Little Fish (G)!) Jax, when we run the sail up the Mast or the Fore Stay, the curve in the leading edge becomes straight and the excess forms a curve in both sides of the sail, which when a delta P is created will take the shape of an Airfoil. This my friend can be MEASURED by a straight line from the Leading edge (TACK) to the Trailing edge (LEECH) (Hand me the pliers so I can turn "Little Fishy" loose!) I'll see you again "LITTLE FISH" if you want to talk Effects of TRIMMING for Newton's Laws of Motion. If not, So be it!! Ole Thom |
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the one who so loudly proclaims to be a crackerbox states a stupid assumption
thusly: the one who so loudly proclaims to be a crackerbox asks what appear to be to him a funny: Guffowing? What sort of flying critter is the Guffo or is it a Guff? Are they protected? I can only guess that MENSA requires only mathematical skills. Oz1...of the 3 twins. I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you. |
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